Gripe and Bemoan the Horrors of (BAD) Cross-tier (ALWAYS)

[Vergazi]

I've been giving this considerable thought and would like feedback on it. In ch5-6 ( my recent experience ) I auto-fought as much as I could just to save time, then in some of the later rounds I manual fought until I could not, then finished off with some catering...at times if i needed relics I would cater and do more provinces. Many of the farther provinces from my city, when catered, took much more tier1 than either of tier2 or tier3 ( we're talking 3000 tier1, 450 tier2, 500 tier3 or some such ) It very well could be that more players are pushing farther out in the provinces during tourneys than is wise and burning through all of their tier1 at an abnormal rate as compared to tier2 or tier3 goods. If this is correct then one would have to rebalance the tier1 costs of catering to address the cross-tier issue...possibly. I'd like to hear any and all thoughts on this please.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

The plural of anecdote is not data. So far, I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that there are different tier requirements for tournament catering. Only @Sir Squirrel posted a few samples - as well as a few counterexamples, but this is not sufficient to confirm or reject the hypothesis.

For what it's worth, I just ran aggregated catering requirements for current tournament 3* provinces 13-20, in Elementals (just what I had available at the moment). Still not a huge sample, but it's at least 32 encounters. The grand totals are like this:

T1: 268K
T2: 260K
T3: 237K
Orcs: 3.7K

The differences in totals are close enough, given the small sample size (that could be a difference of 1-2 encounters, as requirements are pretty volatile). Also keep in mind that later provinces require more goods than earlier ones (#20 is almost 1.5 on average vs #13), so totals would be converging to their expected values pretty slowly.

And as I mentioned, similar experiment on the global map (but with 100+ encounters all in the same ring) yielded almost exact parity across tiers.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IS IT?! *cups hand to ear and hears a pin drop as crickets chirp in distance* Yeah, okay, it's late, but, still, it is never not... *pauses dramatically and frantically changes into harem pants* Stop! Filter time! *starts breakdancing horribly* You can fix this! Break trades down!

 

[DeletedUser23732]

It's this bizarre yet all too common thing where people can only see one side.
They get as far as
"Oh man, it would be totally amazing if I could get 160,000 planks for a pathetic 10k gems!"
but they can't/won't make the mental leap and realize that if one person is getting an awesome deal, then the other probably isn't

It is worse than that, The thought is, Tier 3 produces the best bang for the space it uses, I'll only make those and ask everyone else to supply me.

 

[Deborah M]

It is worse than that, The thought is, Tier 3 produces the best bang for the space it uses, I'll only make those and ask everyone else to supply me.

I believe this is what started this whole problem! I don't see enough event buildings at high enough levels to solely create this imbalance. Besides, that contribution to cross-tier trades is fairly recent relatively speaking. I first saw this problem a long time ago and watched it grow as some decided to sell off all T! and just do cross-tier trades to get what they needed. Then they did have to add back 1 or 2 for sentient goods but not enough to support a high ranking city. This situation was primarily fueled by the ranking competition toward the top and others started to follow. I found this approach to be very selfish from the start and still refuse to take any of them.

 

[shimmerfly]

This morning there only one person who was NOT using cross tiers in my trader which was 18 pages at the time.
It's like someone rang a bell and everyone jumped on the same silly wagon.
I used to take one or two to help a newer player but Nope not now.

 

[ajqtrz]

We had this problem with about 4 players in our fs a while back. I sent out a general message explaining that upstream purchases (i.e. lower tier for higher) should include a minimum of 2% more per tier. I then gave examples. That helped some but not entirely. I waited a couple weeks and repeated the lesson (more briefly) and then discussed WHY a person might find themselves in a situation where they were constantly needing CT trades. In this case I discussed the production balances in general terms and noted the shortages in our own fellowship .. marble, crystal and elixer in our case. I suggested they build mfrs in a 7:4:3 ratio and keep them up to their highest levels.

In the end the problem went away without real drama AND now I always see CT's at 3 stars and only on occassion rather than large numbers constantly as was the case before (at 2 stars even most of the time). Not sure if all the talking cured the problem or if somebody more influential than I (believe it or not some of my mages have more pull than I, lol!), talked to specific members. Or maybe everybody just readjusted their production.

Finally, I think it might be incumbent for fellowships to put into their rules that all players must keep their own tier productions in balance. That way when you get some big player deciding to drain everybody of their T1 because they are too big to bother with such things, you have a good reason to say, 'adios partner.'

AJ

 

[DeletedUser20951]

I've been battling with a waning motivation to trade regularly, while my interest remains the same with other aspects of the game, where my daily to thrice-daily trading has slipped to every other day or two. Now, this could be due to the normal ebbing of engrossment, but is obviously caused, without a doubt, by the consistent slogging through of the Cross-tiering Bog of Depair™ that leeches and drains away all vitality from which its loathsome and noxious touch caresses... WE ARE IN DIRE NEED OF A PANACEA (filter), INNO, or else our demise is certain*!

*claim may be subject to exaggeration and based on personal bias

 

[NightshadeCS]

by the consistent slogging through of the Cross-tiering Bog of Depair™

I approve this name and add it to the roster of Unpleasant Bogs immediately before the Bog of Eternal Stench.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

I approve this name and add it to the roster of Unpleasant Bogs immediately before the Bog of Eternal Stench.

WOO!!! *does happy spastic dance at licensing approval* This is the recognition it deserves!

And I think I am actually beginning to run out of steam a bit (on voicing my protests; my loathing of the current Trader setup hasn't abated one whit), and may be reduced to spouting, "FILTER!", every other day or so. At least until I'm reprimanded or my creativity for grumbling about the topic returns, anyway.

 

[SimplyNoble]

So... since I started posting cross tier trades that are like 1/1, 1/1.5 ,1/2 so like 1000 t3 for 1,500 t2 or 2000 t1 I have started seeing others around me do the same or something similar. Honestly. If there is a glut on the t3 market then this is what should happen.

Now these are just the numbers I have chosen and I am not suggesting they are the right numbers, but it is working for me. Since cross tier is not going to go away why not just post trades that seem more fair to you? It pretty much fixed the problem for me. But then I am in a high enough chapter and manage my resources well enough that it is working for me.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

So... since I started posting cross tier trades that are like 1/1, 1/1.5 ,1/2 so like 1000 t3 for 1,500 t2 or 2000 t1 I have started seeing others around me do the same or something similar. Honestly. If there is a glut on the t3 market then this is what should happen.

Now these are just the numbers I have chosen and I am not suggesting they are the right numbers, but it is working for me. Since cross tier is not going to go away why not just post trades that seem more fair to you? It pretty much fixed the problem for me. But then I am in a high enough chapter and manage my resources well enough that it is working for me.

I know if I need to post cross-tier (usually because I am woefully short on t2) I keep it to 1:1 as much as possible. I mean really I have 300k on average of T3 and 50k t2.... for me it's a more than fair trade because I am getting something I need more of while I take steps to address my production issues.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Alright, this might be a repeat of something I posted before (I know I meant to post it, but think I got distracted), which is a clarification on The Poll of TYPO HORROR©. I'm asking if players have placed, not accepted, trades similar to this:

​

Eh? Eh?

 

[DeletedUser20951]

I'm avoiding the trading process, AGAIN. C'mon, idiot self, you don't have to look at all of the cross-tier in the Trader, and our stockpile of goods is becoming more and more imbalanced as the tourn- YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS ON ME, SELF OF REASON. I'm gonna do what I WANNA and NOTHING further than- Fine! I'll post some trades! Gosh damn! *huffs and stomps out of forums in a snit, pausing briefly to flip self off* And don't let the door hit you on- *door slams on face, blood erupts from nose, muffled screaming ensues*

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

Hahah, I too have to do some trades that I need to post just to balance goods out. I tend to user the filter so I completely ignore cross-tier trades even if they are posted by FS members unless it's been done by pre-arrangement.

 

[DeletedUser23732]

This morning there only one person who was NOT using cross tiers in my trader which was 18 pages at the time.
.
.
.
I used to take one or two to help a newer player but Nope not now.

Not even early Ch players, say Ch1-4? . Sure they could wait 'til their Goods produce at higher quantities of all 3 tiers. . Why are you in a fellowship?

I'm in one to help everyone there. . Sure, I'm just starting HERE, But I'l help almost anyone in my beta fellowship. . Why not/wouldn't I?

Simple, that player isn't producing any good on their own, or only the 3rd-tier. . I'm currently offering negative trades just to get me started; and I'll fill negative trades too, for the same reason, Help a brother/sister out.

May your every trade be: ☆☆ (fair and equitable)!

 

[shimmerfly]

Not even early Ch players, say Ch1-4? Sure they could wait 'til their Goods produce at higher quantities of all 3 tiers. Why are you in a fellowship?

I'm not

 

[NightshadeCS]

Not even early Ch players, say Ch1-4? Sure they could wait 'til their Goods produce at higher quantities of all 3 tiers. Why are you in a fellowship?

I'm in one to help everyone there. Sure, I'm just starting HERE, But I'l help almost anyone in my beta fellowship. Why not/wouldn't I?

Simple, that player isn't producing any good on their own, or only the 3rd-tier. I'm currently offering negative trades just to get me started; and I'll fill negative trades too, for the same reason, Help a brother/sister out.

May your every trade be: ☆☆!

I'm pretty sure @shimmerfly is NOT in a FS, but plays solo. (ninja'd!)

Also, if players are in chapter 1-4, their trades are more likely to be in the hundreds, and most of us will pick them up no matter what they are, since they are so negligable.

 

[DeletedUser23732]

Not voting, poll constructor want's to make me a saint! I'd vote Yes, anything for my FS!

since they are so negligable.

Exactly! . There really aren't two issues though! . Helping a lower player is good for the fellowship.

My Ch6 player recently had to diminish their space for goods. I dropped him to 3 of each tier to make room for the dwarves. I'm slowly re-building them. But I needed help. I'll bet you'd make me ☆☆ trades to help me, NightShade, if I were your fellow. My belief is the game sets the value of goods, not players.

 

[DeletedUser23732]

Why are you in a fellowship?

I'm not

That could explain why you don't have the, help others philosophy. . But, why do you feel the system's good's values are unfair. . I'm defining fair as everyone uses the same system. . Just like our monetary system (dollars and cents)!

Woops! . That was an assumption! . I've never heard YOU say it was unfair, just too frequent.