DeletedUser
Guest
It figures... typical response from devs
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Your Elvenar Team
Gripe and Bemoan the Horrors of (BAD) Cross-tier (ALWAYS)
DeletedUser20951
Guest
@samidodamage explained it much better than I could. I have a vaguer, don't sweat the specific numbers, approach to deciding what is fair and what is not, and that's by asking myself if I would or could regularly accept the trade I am about to post if the goods demanded were for my boost, while many seem to assume the default ratio of the Trader is balanced. I fully understand helping out fellows that are newer to the game, and I should have explicitly stated that I am talking about high level neighbors who place dozens of these trades and replenish them when the counter runs out. Then there's the fact that the amount of all tiers you need for tournaments, upgrades, etc., always increases as you move up through the tech tree (as far as I am aware; can an advanced player confirm this, that you don't suddenly stop needing your base goods?), and furthermore, there are more newbies than veterans, all of which affects the supply and demand of goods, especially the first tier.
I can see someone being of the mind of, "help a brother out", but any claims that cross-tier (BAD ONES) are transactions that benefit both sides is completely absurd.
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DeletedUser20951
Guest
...And this entire topic really is boiling down to my disdain for those who can't empathize, which is quite foreign to the way my brain functions. The first thing I take into consideration when I will be taking an action that will affect others is how it will affect them. Since the description that matches me best rhymes with "naspole", this doesn't mean I'll choose the kind and/or fair route, depending on my motivations, but I am at least aware of what is and isn't, usually.
Still, the clutter in the Trader is my greatest annoyance on the issue, and reading the views about cross-tier has been entertaining.
Still, the clutter in the Trader is my greatest annoyance on the issue, and reading the views about cross-tier has been entertaining.
DeletedUser20951
Guest
*drags thread's withered, battered corpse into view and kicks it viciously for good measure*
I realize most of my questions are either sarcastic or rhetorical and it's hard to tell when I'm asking for real, but I would genuinely like to know the answer to this. The furthest I've been in the game is the Orc Age and I'm only assuming that you continue to have a use for your normal goods at later stages.
Risen Malchiah
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm in Constructs and I continue to use my normal goods, so much so that I once again struggle to maintain them, particularly Tier 1 of all things. I use so much for tournies, helping fellowship members and making sentient goods.
DeletedUser20951
Guest
Thank you! Logically, I figured it would be like that, but it's nice to know for sure, especially since I will be significantly increasing the amount of first tier I produce. Seemed only prudent with how in demand first tier is the Trader, which I think is how I formed my uninformed opinion that you keep requiring more and more as you move forward.
juniperknome
Well-Known Member
DeletedUser20951
Guest
I've got many of those, too, in a 'funner' bite-sized version, no trading necessary.
Remembered another reason for my puzzlement on the matter, and that's that such a large number of players apparently keep running out of lower tier, which doesn't seem to give them a little pause to go, "Hey, maybe I should increase how much I make?" I like to solve my own problems, though, and play this as close to a single-player game as possible.
*taps chin thoughtfully* Come to ponder it more, and trading is the only part of Elvenar where I am forced to not be an ill-tempered hermit, as is my wont, and I must rely on others. Likely why I get more irritated about it than I usually do with most stuff.
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Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Orcs is where I started cutting down on my Tier 1 production because I needed more and more space for the guest race stuff. I went from maybe 5 at the most of my boosted Tier 1 factories down to only 2. And now in chapter 13, I have only 1 of my boosted Tier 1 factories and I am still sitting on around 800k of that good. Actually, if I were not burning up goods in the occasional big push in a tournament, I would be sitting on around 800k of all nine normal goods. Part of this surplus comes from having the right event buildings, of course, but also from the decreased needs for normal goods other than the ones you convert into your boosted sentient goods. Basically, if you do not do tournaments much, or can do them just by fighting, yes your need for normal goods does drop a lot when you get to the sentient goods chapters (12-14). Oh, and I never had more than two each of my boosted Tier 2 and Tier 3 factories. Between trading and MM spells, when needed, I always kept a decent stock of each.
DeletedUser20951
Guest
I'm not looking forward to having to potentially cut down on my abundance of manufactories, and I'll resist it, stalling out in the tech tree (which doesn't bother me), as I love hoarding goods and never feel like I have enough. Currently in Fairies and sitting on:
Took a hard hit when I started making a stronger weekly push on tournaments, but I will be scaling back on that once I find a happy medium in maintaining crafting components, while getting my nonboosted relics up comfortably over five hundred and growing (I do everything in excess). Yet another reason for my confusion at players not having enough goods is that I'm no rocket surgeon and it's not difficult to set up to produce plenty without sacri- Okay, my stalling out in Dwarves for a few months is probably when I hoarded the most goods (don't recall), and my 'method' would no doubt cause normal people to go insane (I'm already am; no worries there). Not arguing in favor of it, since it would be considered an idiotic strategy to the majority of players, but in Ages one through five, I never was stalled in the tech tree, always had all builders building twenty-four seven, and amassed a stockpile throughout this time while taking a decent part in every tournament. So, I just... I don't know. I don't get the struggle for goods. *snaps fingers* I've noticed that I don't construct many armories compared to others (three, and THREE IS ALL I WILL EVER HAVE), but I do autofight whenever possible for a victory.
Eh, my specific situation and modus operandi would have little bearing on the big picture.
What do I want? A TRADER FILTER TO FILTER OUT CROSS-TIER TRADES.
Deborah M
Oh Wise One
@Nonchalant Antipathy I feel like I'm running low if I don't have at least 2M of each T!, T2 & T3. Not wild about battles in Tournaments so if I don't win first try and auto I cater.
Not wild about battles in Tournaments so if I don't win first try and auto I cater.DeletedUser20951
Guest
I'm all about the saving for a rainy day mindset, and I hope to eventually reach the two million mark. *crosses fingers* The battle system is too tedious and time-consuming for manual fighting and if the troops I throw at a encounter slaughter themselves, goods to the rescue!@Nonchalant Antipathy I feel like I'm running low if I don't have at least 2M of each T!, T2 & T3.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Many players mistakenly think that a 4:4:4 build is balanced. I get it, it looks balanced, right? The problem is that costs aren't balanced.
It would be like having a food truck that sells burgers, hotdogs, and coke and always having an equal number of each regardless of what your customers are asking for.
The problem is that no one can say what the perfect balance is since the needs will change slightly from chapter to chapter and a lot from player to player based on tournament play and the desired speed of tech tree progression (the 2 are strongly correlated). The last bit that throws all advice out of whack is fighting vs catering (hands down fighting is more efficient in resources, but less so in human time and effort)
The best advice is probably "be flexible and to be willing to adapt your set up to your own changing needs."
I went with something like:
T1:T2:T3
8:0:0 in chapter 1 (mostly fighting)
8:2:0 in chapter 2,3 (50:50)
7:3:1 in chapter 4 (50:50)
6:3:2 in chapter 5,6 (almost 100% cater/negotiate)
5:3:2 in chapter 7 (almost 100% cater/negotiate)
3:3:3 in chapter 8,9,10 (mostly fighting)
2:2:2 in chapter 11,12,13 (mostly fighting)
1:1:1 in chapter 14 <---this is totally skewed because I got awesome set buildings that give me more than a 4:4:4 build would for Christmas.
T1:T2:T3
8:0:0 in chapter 1 (mostly fighting)
8:2:0 in chapter 2,3 (50:50)
7:3:1 in chapter 4 (50:50)
6:3:2 in chapter 5,6 (almost 100% cater/negotiate)
5:3:2 in chapter 7 (almost 100% cater/negotiate)
3:3:3 in chapter 8,9,10 (mostly fighting)
2:2:2 in chapter 11,12,13 (mostly fighting)
1:1:1 in chapter 14 <---this is totally skewed because I got awesome set buildings that give me more than a 4:4:4 build would for Christmas.
DeletedUser20951
Guest
Aye, I don't believe there's any monolithic balance unless you're following a very precise strategy. I'm a body that doesn't keep more than a cursory note of how much my goods are increasing in amount, with my sole concern being that they are increasing steadily. If I'm in the red on anything, only then do I make adjustments, usually. Sometimes, I'll get some crackpot idea, and instead of doing the smart thing and working out how it'll go, I just do it... because I am brilliant.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Yeah, I really don't care what the devs or other players think is fair, if they would just give us some ratio filters. The last few weeks I'm regularly looking through 15+ pages of what I consider garbage. I keep a good supply of all goods on hand, so filtering my good is worthless, since by the time I'm finished I'll have had to look at all nine separately, with no net gain.
DeletedUser20951
Guest
This is destroying my will to accept trades.
I could grab a fair few cross-tier without much pain, but I refuse to out of principle in order to not reinforce bad habits, nor support a trading economy that is not sustainable in the long term.
DeletedUser20951
Guest
*twitches violently* I just had a... thought. A terrible thought I can't remember ever seeing mentioned. Has anybody tried building a whole slew of only first tier manufactories and trading for the rest? Would something like that even be possible? I'm doubting it would be efficient in any way, shape, or form, but could you? Someone must have tried or does so, and I know it's technically an option, but could you actually get anywhere in the chapters going that route? My brain is giving me nothing but conflicting waffling. I NEED HELP.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Short answer: no.
Longer answer with pictures:
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...ase-notes-version-1-17.6402/page-7#post-40769
DeletedUser20951
Guest
I studied those... Is that from the Elven Architect thingie (never used it)? Anyway, I didn't understand it other than that it would require more than what you could actually fit in your city (I think that's what it means?). Much obliged for hunting up a thread from three years ago, regardless. *tips hat*
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
I think it would depend on the number of people offering "3 star" trades in the downward direction. If you goal was to accept such trades for your T3, you might be able to manage it. But if the trades dry up, and you have to offer even two star trades of your T1 for T2 and T#, you'd be hemorrhaging supplies at a prodigious rate.