Have Made Game Too Tedious and Difficult

[Deleted User - 312108]

I admit, I would be more inclined to spend some if my purchase for the builder carried across worlds. For now, I am not anywhere near the dwarven settlements so, I cannot comment on that. But I don't play the game to be on the leader boards.
I guess we'll see how things progress.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Regarding producing non boosted goods...it simply isn't feasible as the game progresses. Wait until you have been playing a while and you need 30,000 goods (combined level 1, 2 and 3) just to negotiate one sector in a province. If you aren't producing boosted only, you don't have a chance. Our fellowship is one of the top fellowships and we have a lot of very advance players. If any of us produced non boosted it would harm all of us. We put up trades for thousands and thousands of goods and even tens of thousands. Back and forth all day long. We count on each other to have tens of thousands of goods for trades. We all need that much.

Most of us in my fellowship have been playing together since Arendyll began. So, I know what it is like to start a fellowship from the beginning. We found that if you only produce your boosted goods, you have so much more to trade with each other. As some grew faster than others, the ones who had grown faster were able to help those behind us by giving them great trades. Then they propelled forward and helped those behind them. Kind of like a big game of leap frog where we all boosted each other. It works. I don't remember the last time any one of us ever was stalled in this game for lack of goods. I have half a million of each of the tier 3 goods right now. lol! If anyone ever gets low in anything, we all have so much in reserve we can just give them what they need at that moment. The game ebbs and flows as far as goods demands goes and what you are low in today, you will have plenty of tomorrow. It helps a lot if you all have lots of reserves to help each other through the lean times.

 

[DeletedUser]

Do you think a residence-only city should work? One with nothing but cultural buildings? You seem to be suggesting that by merely logging in and clicking on some stuff, you should automatically progress at a fixed pace no matter what you build.

I'm fairly neutral to this entire argument, actually. Mainly I'm responding to the condescending tone taken by most in their replies (including yours), which I'll admit is not the best approach. The art of instructing without talking down, is a difficult one, indeed.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

I'm fairly neutral to this entire argument, actually. Mainly I'm responding to the condescending tone taken by most in their replies (including yours), which I'll admit is not the best approach. The art of instructing without talking down, is a difficult one, indeed.

I read the initial post as argumentative, critical, and somewhat sarcastic. Even the post title is critical rather than constructive. Nonetheless, the OP was offered some great advice that would help her overcome the hurdles she is trying to address. The essence of her response is "no, I want to play my way and since I can't, the game should be changed." That's not really a suggestion at all. It's akin to saying "I want to play chess but only if I can have two more queens instead of rooks and my pawns can move any number of spaces." So yeah, I'm a little frustrated.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

So yeah, I'm a little frustrated.

Why?

 

[DeletedUser626]

The system being placed by missanthropy looks promising for for goods movement between fellowships but you still need goods on hand

Hiya Varron,

i may have missed some posts, holidays and all.. but i saw this post and wonder what system has missanthropy put into place to move goods between fellowships?

 

[DeletedUser61]

what system has missanthropy put into place to move goods between fellowships?

Take a look at https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....-and-ye-shall-find-a-template.1375/#post-8744 and the attached Unrequited.zip spreadsheet.

It's a very simple approach, but quite effective. After you clear all of the trades that you want, each day, but before you post anything new, log both your own unrequited trades and the ones you couldn't clear in the market tab. If you then look at the running average of the unrequited goods, you'll be able to see where you need to increase/decrease your manufacturing to balance the overall market.

If there's a major radio button trader that has something that you need then you can obviously build a bridge, BUT if you or somebody in your Fellowship ALREADY has access to some OTHER member of the target fellowship, and you can probably set up a three-way trade.

 

[DeletedUser626]

It's a very simple approach, but quite effective. After you clear all of the trades that you want, each day, but before you post anything new, log both your own unrequited trades and the ones you couldn't clear in the market tab. If you then look at the running average of the unrequited goods, you'll be able to see where you need to increase/decrease your manufacturing to balance the overall market..

I don't post trades unless requested to anymore. (helps to be able to see the notifications instead of 9 pages of trades) no one has the goods to trade tier for tier in the amounts I have to offer.

after looking at Her post, and I don't see how that info helps an entire fellowship get balanced when most of the members make 3 types of goods.
(there was a time, in the last 6 months my fellowship members by majority only had 3 goods in mass quantities to trade. that isn't where we are now)

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....-and-ye-shall-find-a-template.1375/#post-8744

"Once every week or so, post the recap and encourage folks to abandon buildings that are producing excess inventory"

I find that interesting, really interesting. current game build has no max capacity on goods collected...wouldn't it be better to encourage folks to use those excess inventory to buy knowledge points. perhaps there are a few things in game they could do with those knowledge points instead of abandoning a building.



"When you have a chronic Overage or Shortage, look through your list, pick a couple of likely candidates, based on their Fellowships, and see if you can find somebody on the world map who can assist you with a 3 way trade."

the 3 way trade works, and wish ya the best on achieving it. in the mean time if you wanna move some goods on Arendyll let me know, i'm happy to help your fellowship.

 

[DeletedUser594]

"no, I want to play my way and since I can't, the game should be changed." ....It's akin to saying "I want to play chess but only if I can have two more queens instead of rooks and my pawns can move any number of spaces."

Exactly what I was trying to express. This argument comes up periodically and so far I have been dumb enough to jump in and then deal with the inevitable multiple flaming responses. I'm calling it now- we'll see an iteration of this argument again from entirely different players within 3-4 months and probably sooner. I'll be stealing this bit if I bother jumping into the fray again, or I may just chew up some broken glass while smacking a hungry bear with an active hornets nest .

 

[DeletedUser626]

Exactly what I was trying to express. This argument comes up periodically and so far I have been dumb enough to jump in and then deal with the inevitable multiple flaming responses. I'm calling it now- we'll see an iteration of this argument again from entirely different players within 3-4 months and probably sooner. I'll be stealing this bit if I bother jumping into the fray again, or I may just chew up some broken glass while smacking a hungry bear with an active hornets nest .

I do hope that your insights from your experiences in game continue to shine on this forum.. while the issues are repeated and seen over and over again let us be reassured that the new eyes and ears of players just joining us eager to play with plenty of questions are challenged in a better game.

 

[DeletedUser61]

no one has the goods to trade tier for tier in the amounts I have to offer

Let's look at your city, for a moment, as a problem in economics. Specifically, you're managing a wholesale warehouse that brokers 3 different items in each of 3 tiers..

• If you can come up with the right suppliers and customers, your average cost PER unit, is 1.
• If you CAN'T come up with the right suppliers and customers, then you'll have to import the stuff at 5 times the cost.
• Your total cost PER TIER, in the worst case, will be 1+5+5=11 which averages to 11/3 or 3.6 PER unit, even if you actually use Coins or Supplies to get there, rather than boosted Goods.

As is typical in most business situations, your inventory isn't something that's visible to outsiders, but what you're offering as trades,

EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE NO EXPECTATION OF MAKING AN IMMEDIATE SALE,​

is visible to your other fellowship members, your neighbors who have discovered you, and at a 50% premium to your neighbors who have not discovered you. Likewise, their trades are visible to you, with the same constraints.

The TRADE BALANCE game is very interesting.

• Do all your normal trades with Fellowship Members and your discovered neighbors
• Look at the trade window, for radio button traders that could flatten your inventory
• Visit their city, and note that EVERY SECOND CITY on their 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock diagonal will have EXACTLY the same boosts
• Drag the map, just a bit to get a blue arrow, and follow it back to the edge of your discovered territory
• Scout and acquire sectors that will build a bridge to a new GROUP of cities that will all be IDEAL trading partners.

You'll need to explore the map anyway, for various reasons, and if you use your inventory, or more explicitly your trade imbalances, to optimize your exploration, the incentive is a cost AVOIDANCE factor of 3.6 to 1.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Somehow I missed this thread during the holidays, so I'd like to jump in from the beginning.

Yes, I think the developers have made early and mid-stage play too tedious. When I started in July players had two options: proceed at a moderate pace, or proceed rapidly via the "clickfest" (it always amuses me to hear so many of you use that term. Even in this thread, most defend a players' right to choose their own preferred play style, except of course for the "clickfesters". We are sadly a maligned group) This was an excellent marketing strategy, because it attracted a variety of players.

Play has since been slowed - in my opinion, play past the first tech section is miserably slow. I started a new city in every world, and literally hate playing them. Had play been this tedious in July, I would have quit straight away.

So, now that Inno has some players, they're narrowing their target market. We've already seen that they have no focus on customer retention - even avid players who spend freely - which just serves to remind me that we're dealing with a European company. While US companies tend to market toward customer expectation, EU companies tend to make a product and say, "here it is, you'd better like it".

Even this Forum seems a mere token. Have we seen concrete examples of our suggestions for game improvement being implemented? No. My personal experience is just the opposite - a random change by Inno specifically targeting against a strategy I discussed in chat and started implementing. For the most part, games changes have seeemed to consistently thwart strategies being used by innovative or dedicated players, and not to enhance the overall gaming experience for everyone. So, yes, this makes it tedious.

***************************************

All the discussion about boosted and non-boosted goods was interesting. Non-boosted manufactories = slow progress; this is the trade-off one must accept. Yet at this stage of the game, trading is ALWAYS possible if you put your mind to it. If your own fellowship members don't have the goods, some other fellowship will. Most fellowships are formed around relationships, so imbalances are common. Form a trading relationship, fellowship to fellowship. If you're in Arendyll, visit the Trading Post. If you're in another world, find someone to establish a post (if there's interest, I'll donate my cities as the archmage placeholder so everyone else can come and go). Who knows how long before Inno quashes this option out of their heavy-handed "Dies is verboten" mentality.

If by some aberrant moment of consideration Inno doesn't change the 24-hour clock, my goal is to start a bank fellowship. Players could pop in, make a par trade for a small discount and go home.

**************************************

As for KJ's suggestion that we develop our provinces in order to find ideal trading partners - please. Of course he's technically correct, but this is Elvenar. Even those players with upwards of 200 accessible neighbors seldom find players engaged in trade. If I wanted to explore my world map in order to find a realistic trading partner, I'd be facing impossible scouting and fighting / negotiating requirements long before I got to any help.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

So... I've been playing Elder Scrolls Online and one of the few interesting features there is the fact that you can belong to more than one guild. Enabling a player to belong to two fellowships could be interesting. Although... I definitely do not want to be visiting 48 other people in any given day. I do hope they do something to make visitations less tedious.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

Watching grass grow is more exciting than Chapter “suck” Six. Whatta way to ruin my semi good name.

 

[joboxo]

I joined Elvenar with the idea that I would build a city similar to Paris, France, keeping culture in the heart of the city. Ha! The Tour de France was about to begin when I joined. My 'beautiful city' iidea went quickly out the window. pfft! I soon discovered, Elvenar is not this type of creative game, although I steadfastly try to keep my creativity alive in my cities.

YES! I want to build the Paris of Elvenar too! It has been a challenge trying to balance aesthetic decisions with strategic ones.

 

[DeletedUser43]

This game is so beautiful, I really wish they would focus on the building aspect of it!

 

[DeletedUser1590]

This game is so beautiful, I really wish they would focus on the building aspect of it!

I'd like to be able to focus on having a little aesthetics in my city, but it's pretty much impossible because

1. we need so many freaking spots taken up by goods production to be able to get anywhere in a period shorter than six months
2. to be able to unlock the expansion grids, see #1; then the grids immediately get taken up by having to put in more goods production
3. the culture buildings that provide any decent culture boost take up way too much room. The only space you have left once you place the structure is to put a road in. Because space is at such a premium given the difficulty in obtaining expansions, it's really irritating to have to devote two new expansions solely to culture because without it you can't upgrade your buildings...which would reduce the need for more buildings because you could sell the small ones...but you have no place to put the culture buildings before you sell the old ones...which means you can't upgrade your buildings...and around and around and around it goes.

Let us upgrade culture buildings *that remain in their existing footprint* so that we can use the new expansion tiles for true city building, not just building placement, which is pretty much all this game is about right now...and that's getting old and boring quickly.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

I'd like to be able to focus on having a little aesthetics in my city, but it's pretty much impossible because

1. we need so many freaking spots taken up by goods production to be able to get anywhere in a period shorter than six months.

I checked out your city on Arendyll. You are struggling with goods because you are trying to produce your own steel and marble when you are boosted in planks. Factories are expensive in terms of city space, elves, culture, and supplies, so if you try to make all the types of goods you are placing some pretty serious constraints on your city. You're really going to struggle when it comes time to put up the silk factories. I'd suggest finding a fellowship that trades a lot and taking down your steel and marble factories. Try maybe a half-dozen plank factories and you should have plenty to use and trade.

Taking down your steel and marble factories and trading will also address your point #2.

Agreed that the culture buildings are large. Fitting in enough culture is one of the city layout challenges. I do really like the look of the elven culture buildings though.

 

[joboxo]

Let us upgrade culture buildings *that remain in their existing footprint*

What a brilliant idea, Mister Grymwulf!! Every other building can be upgraded, why not cultural buildings?

I realize there are multiple cultural buildings with the same footprint. However, these cases involve one building making the other utterly obsolete, which results in a monotonous repetition of the same building.

Ideally, upgraded cultural buildings would have a slightly improved graphic. If that is not feasible, re-using the the same image would still be an improvement.

 

[DeletedUser1590]

..[snipped]... I'd suggest finding a fellowship that trades a lot and taking down your steel and marble factories. Try maybe a half-dozen plank factories and you should have plenty to use and trade.

Taking down your steel and marble factories and trading will also address your point #2.

Agreed that the culture buildings are large. Fitting in enough culture is one of the city layout challenges. I do really like the look of the elven culture buildings though.

Been looking for a fellowship for nearly a month. Have yet to have a *single* reply to a request, even though I'm not applying to top-tier fellowships looking for advanced players. Even founded my own and have posted in the "fellowship seeking members" thread and have had, again, not a single reply. Consequently, I'm stuck with having to produce my own stuff or have to deal with trader fees.