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    Your Elvenar Team

Helping the Small to Medium players get blue prints

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Somebody suggested the devs find a way to get blueprints to smaller and medium sized players who might be in fellowships unable to get to the 10th chest. Here's a way to do that without the devs needing to do nothing: Become a "Blueprint Friendly Fellowship."

If you are a BFF you reserve one slot in your fs for a visitor from some small fellowship you have adopted. They send one of their members for 2 weeks to collect the blue print, then they return to their fs and the next player joins. One rotation and all those players have 2 blue prints and the experience of being a member (for a short while at least) of a large and well run fellowship. In addition, it may create a pool of fellowships from which, once the players get large enough, the large fellowship could draw new members (with the permission of the AM of the smaller fs, of course).

And it sort of solves the problem of smaller fellowships lacking the ability to get blueprints, right?

Starship Valiant will be the first on Khelonar to try this out. Any AM from a small fellowship that would like to try this, let me know.

AJ
 

Gustoff

Member
Two things to keep in mind...

1) The recent changes made to the Research Tree by Inno, now prevent the 'new' player from even participating in Tournaments until they are in Chapter IV peering with the City Expansion 11. Spire does not appear until Chapter V. So, small/medium players now are those that have played the game for more than 2 months. Oddly, they are permitted to participate in FSA without the Tournament skill.

2) Having personally changed fellowships because of frustration from lack of participation/activity of all the members in Tourney/Spire, I can say that the problem is gathering 20 active members under one fellowship umbrella. And even then, consistent weekly completion of Tourney or Spire requires high resource generation (for catering) or high troop AW promotion. Those that are successful have over 400000 points in their city and have the flexibility to do multiple things at the same time.

Temporary membership to another fs, though generous and noble in intent, will not solve the real need for evolving many, many buildings as the game progresses through new chapters. Good luck...
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Two things to keep in mind...

....
Temporary membership to another fs, though generous and noble in intent, will not solve the real need for evolving many, many buildings as the game progresses through new chapters. Good luck...

You may be right when you say this, but the problem I'm trying to solve isn't "the real need for evolving many, many buildings as game progresses through new chapters," but the need of some players who are small(er) to get blueprints to upgrade things. I do think my idea will do that, or at least give many players who don't feel they want to switch fellowships permanently just to join a 10 chest fs the opportunity to get what they need. It's a very narrowly focused solution.

AJ
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
2) Having personally changed fellowships because of frustration from lack of participation/activity of all the members in Tourney/Spire, I can say that the problem is gathering 20 active members under one fellowship umbrella.
Don’t feel bad. Most of us took several tries to land in a home that suits us. And even one that suits us a year ago may not suit us today because people and cities change, and so do their needs.

Overall, I don’t see this as a problem except for the newbie mistake of wanting to join FS with people within the same chapter as them for some reason, likely that they feel intimidated by large cities amongst them. It’s very easy to create a new fellowship and any John Doe can start his own, even one that just started playing the game. There are a lot of FS with a chap 4 Archmage governing a prenatal ward of chapter 1 and 2 cities and none of them knows what they are doing. Half the fellowship is probably inactive if you look them up on Elvenstats. The game also doesn’t explicitly explain to you what the benefits of a FS are so if you have a band of new players with no one the wiser, then it’s gonna be awhile before someone’s light bulb flickers on the importance of tourney for relics boosts, event quests, and prizes. Until then, yeah, the smarter ones know to leave and most AMs, unless they care about rank and have a score requirement, do not have problems accepting eager new cities into their midst. Nothing is precluding small and medium players from finding better suited fellowships if blueprints are on their mind. Just look at the Game World section. For every one player looking for a FS, there are prob 50 FS looking for a player.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@crackie

I agree that nothing prevents players from finding "better suited fellowships" and many do. However, I can also imagine a fellowship (well, many fellowships) where the players really like their mates and don't want to leave -- except for the fact that they can't earn blueprints because the fs is not yet strong enough. Why should a player have to leave his/her fellowship for the single reason of needing blueprints to upgrade residences and such? So this will solve that problem for them...if they hear about it and if enough fellowships that do earn blueprints, actually go along with the idea. From what I can tell, a LOT of players are generous in trading and take small player trades even if they aren't advantageous to them, so I'm suggesting we extend that spirit of generosity in this manner.

AJ
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
However, I can also imagine a fellowship (well, many fellowships) where the players really like their mates and don't want to leave -- except for the fact that they can't earn blueprints because the fs is not yet strong enough. Why should a player have to leave his/her fellowship for the single reason of needing blueprints to upgrade residences and such?
Eh. You either want it or you don't. Pack up together with your friends if you want to continue to hang out with them, as if staying put is the only solution. Sounds like an excuse, a crutch, and a total cop out at best. You can use that to keep yourself helpless from doing anything in the game then. Can't finish the FA stages for extra artifacts or tomes? Yeah, I wanted to hang out with my friends. Can't upgrade anything because nobody's taking your trades? Yeah, I wanted to hang out with my friends. Can't afford to craft artifacts from MA because nobody is climbing Spire for diamonds? Yeah, I wanted to hang out with my friends. :rolleyes:

I started my own FS when I was in Orc chap and my friend was in Amuni. We had 1 chap 3 player join us from old FS and then 4 chapter 1 cities still with new car smell. That's 7 players total, with 5 from the prenatal ward. I anchored our tourney with a chapter 8 city. How long did it take us to grow to 10th chest? 3 weeks. It's really not that hard to get a blueprint. My 3 week old city pulled 1890 in tourney this week, more than its fair share in a 25 man roster. And if they got the new tech tree, then I understand the limitations of the situation. Either way, you either want to play the helpless damsel or you can take control your own situation. I'm happy to teach newbies how to play and empower them with guidance to make their own cities great. I'm def not here to enable helplessness. If you want to be a victim of your own making, please feel free to stay put, but please stay away from my FS. If you want to learn how to fish to feed yourselves, come on down! ;)
 

Glenndar

Member
I agree with @crackie. Too many players don't want to play the game. They just want things given to them. They complain about the game when in fact, they are just bad players and instead of learning to play the game better, they whine about the things they can't get easily.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I suspect Blueprints, like many things, are intended as a later-game content to improve player retention. Elvenar is a revenue generating enterprise and content needs to be balanced between acquiring new players and retaining those who have been around longer. There are lot of things which are far, far easier for new players (i.e. scouting a province taking less than several days), and a lot of things which are easier for players in later chapters.

If I were to look at this from the owner's point of view, we only get two kinds of new players, those who will spend sufficient money to make catering to them worthwhile, and everyone else. If a player is willing to accept that they have to work to move forward, and sticks around long enough to have spent some money and established a level of (at least semi) permanent attachment to the game, then extra content to make them more interested and likelier to stick around and spend money is an investment in future income. Those players will appreciate the extras as meaningful. Meanwhile, many players will get bored with the game and move on fairly quickly, frequently the first day, often after a month or two. A player who is less engaged, becuase they get a lot of free and easy stuff right off the go, is a little more likely to become bored with the game and move on. Developing a path to give new players more free stuff sooner is a risky proposition for those several reasons, and also because each time they do it, they risk alienating long-term players who may have been a source of regular (if small) income from things like extra event currency and stash houses.

All Elvenar content costs Inno money. If you think more Blueprints for earlier players will improve their cash flow, that's the point to make. Will more Blueprints cause new players to be more likely to stick around? Possibly. Will it make them more likely to spend money if they do stick around? Possibly, but my gut-feeling is that it won't. Either they're going to find the game engaging, or they aren't. Fewer new players spending diamonds to upgrade a magic residence every chapter seems likely to offset income from any players who stick around longer and who made that decision becuase of the free blueprints.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
All Elvenar content costs Inno money. If you think more Blueprints for earlier players will improve their cash flow, that's the point to make. Will more Blueprints cause new players to be more likely to stick around? Possibly. Will it make them more likely to spend money if they do stick around? Possibly, but my gut-feeling is that it won't. Either they're going to find the game engaging, or they aren't. Fewer new players spending diamonds to upgrade a magic residence every chapter seems likely to offset income from any players who stick around longer and who made that decision becuase of the free blueprints.

Considering how much easier the early provinces of the tournament were made in the last big tournament update, making it much easier for fellowships to complete 10 chests, Inno must think that a free weekly blueprint will keep more players around. Now, pretty much any player with 10 provinces available, and half-decent skills and the ability to log in at least once on each day of a tournament, can get 2000 points per week, as 5 stars in the first 10 provinces is 2100 points.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Considering how much easier the early provinces of the tournament were made in the last big tournament update, making it much easier for fellowships to complete 10 chests, Inno must think that a free weekly blueprint will keep more players around. Now, pretty much any player with 10 provinces available, and half-decent skills and the ability to log in at least once on each day of a tournament, can get 2000 points per week, as 5 stars in the first 10 provinces is 2100 points.
It may depend on what you consider early players. Ten provinces in tournament requires around 100 fully explored provinces. with puts you near the start of chapter 7 and most if not all of hte way through the first guest race. I don't personally consider that an "early" player.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
It may depend on what you consider early players. Ten provinces in tournament requires around 100 fully explored provinces. with puts you near the start of chapter 7 and most if not all of hte way through the first guest race. I don't personally consider that an "early" player.

Now that there are 20 chapters, and with the changes to research that a new city can get, not even unlocking tournaments until chapter 4, I would say chapter 6 is still early-game for sure, as that is the first guest race and lots of new stuff to learn, and chapter 7 would probably be the upper end for early-game. Or we could also say early-game lasts until you get into chapter 8 and can start making orcs to get past the orc-wall of catering world map provinces, because you know lots of players will not limit their scouting and province-completion and will get to 10 of each province-type earlier than chapter 7.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Now that there are 20 chapters, and with the changes to research that a new city can get, not even unlocking tournaments until chapter 4, I would say chapter 6 is still early-game for sure, as that is the first guest race and lots of new stuff to learn, and chapter 7 would probably be the upper end for early-game. Or we could also say early-game lasts until you get into chapter 8 and can start making orcs to get past the orc-wall of catering world map provinces, because you know lots of players will not limit their scouting and province-completion and will get to 10 of each province-type earlier than chapter 7.
Even granting all of chapter six (during most of which a player can not do 10 tournament provinces unless over-scouted) I'm not sure of your point here. Because the request is for making it easier for "early players to get blueprints" and your point appears to be that players in chapter seven and up (and even a little earlier) should have no difficulty obtaining blueprints (so probably don't need this assistance?). So are you suggesting simply a way for people before chapter seven need a way to get blueprints? If so, I disagree. I think Blueprints are properly aimed at the players who will have little trouble obtaining one a week if they are motivated. Whether we agree on Shapter seven being an "Early" chapter or not seems like a pretty small hair to pick. But if you think players in chapter seven and even later are early players and should also have an easy way to get even more blueprints, I think you can guess my view on that.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Eh. You either want it or you don't. Pack up together with your friends if you want to continue to hang out with them, as if staying put is the only solution. Sounds like an excuse, a crutch, and a total cop out at best. You can use that to keep yourself helpless from doing anything in the game then. Can't finish the FA stages for extra artifacts or tomes? Yeah, I wanted to hang out with my friends. Can't upgrade anything because nobody's taking your trades? Yeah, I wanted to hang out with my friends. Can't afford to craft artifacts from MA because nobody is climbing Spire for diamonds? Yeah, I wanted to hang out with my friends. :rolleyes:

I started my own FS when I was in Orc chap and my friend was in Amuni. We had 1 chap 3 player join us from old FS and then 4 chapter 1 cities still with new car smell. That's 7 players total, with 5 from the prenatal ward. I anchored our tourney with a chapter 8 city. How long did it take us to grow to 10th chest? 3 weeks. It's really not that hard to get a blueprint. My 3 week old city pulled 1890 in tourney this week, more than its fair share in a 25 man roster. And if they got the new tech tree, then I understand the limitations of the situation. Either way, you either want to play the helpless damsel or you can take control your own situation. I'm happy to teach newbies how to play and empower them with guidance to make their own cities great. I'm def not here to enable helplessness. If you want to be a victim of your own making, please feel free to stay put, but please stay away from my FS. If you want to learn how to fish to feed yourselves, come on down! ;)
I like how you did it. You dedicated yourselves to the game and, no doubt, spend the time and energy to get where you wanted to go, pronto. Nice! But is that the only way to play the game? I mean, what about the more laid back and/or players who can't put the time in due to RL? What about those who just want to progress slowly but, like my beta city, still need a blueprint or two? There I play solo because I wish to do it that way. I can't get blueprints, but if I could in the manner I describe here, I would. But maybe you are of the opinion that only serious players, -- the ones with the focus and dedication to growing their cities -- like your own style of play should play? Your response implies that somebody else shouldn't be able to get blueprints unless they change their playing style and/or fellowship. And while, in the current way the game operates they are "helpless" I doubt giving them an ocassional assist is going to permanently enlist them in the Elvenar Players Welfare System, any more than taking their trades just because it helps them out.

Just my thoughts, and, of course, I may be wrong.

AJ
 

mephalia39

Member
I will say some should change fellowships. There are a lot new players that join inactive fellowships because those are the ones that show up to pick from when you start and they don't know any better. Also, there a lot of fs with all low levels together because you can click and join. There are many middling fs that could really use those players and teach them a lot about the game, because of the loss their better players to the big fs. Just an observation :)
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I don't see how chapter has anything to do with it either. The earliest you have access to tourney is the earliest you have access to blueprint.

I like how you did it. You dedicated yourselves to the game and, no doubt, spend the time and energy to get where you wanted to go, pronto. Nice! But is that the only way to play the game? I mean, what about the more laid back and/or players who can't put the time in due to RL? What about those who just want to progress slowly but, like my beta city, still need a blueprint or two? There I play solo because I wish to do it that way. I can't get blueprints, but if I could in the manner I describe here, I would. But maybe you are of the opinion that only serious players, -- the ones with the focus and dedication to growing their cities -- like your own style of play should play? Your response implies that somebody else shouldn't be able to get blueprints unless they change their playing style and/or fellowship. And while, in the current way the game operates they are "helpless" I doubt giving them an ocassional assist is going to permanently enlist them in the Elvenar Players Welfare System, any more than taking their trades just because it helps them out.

Just my thoughts, and, of course, I may be wrong.

AJ
There is absolutely nothing is wrong with playing casually, but that is a personal choice, one that has nothing to do with a small or medium size player being excluded from getting a blueprint to boot. Same thing with playing without a fellowship or a fellowship of one. Those are choices one made of one’s own free will. Nobody said you had to play the game with a hand tied behind your back. However, if you make those kind of personal decisions and still expect exclusive group prizes to be within reach though, then that sounds like a self-made problem with a heaping sense of entitlement.

Anything that requires a blueprint can be substituted with 300 diamonds, which means it's not an obstacle that stops anyone from progressing in the game because they don't have one. There are also ways to get blueprints outside of tourney via Royal Pass, flash sales, etc. And there are free ways to get free diamonds to pay for those as well. It sounds to me like you don't plan to spend any diamonds to overcome whatever game obstacles are limited by blueprints and are solely limiting yourself only to the blueprint path which is obtained as an exclusive prize from group rewards via tournaments. You want players to be allowed to play however they want while taking no responsibility that comes with those decisions and get all the prizes too. I mean, a blueprint is literally part of the GROUP rewards from tournament. You really think someone playing by themselves should hold the expectations of getting the rewards for reaching 40k tourney points? Ok, I'll play along. By your reasoning then, why shouldn't a casual player or someone playing by themselves be excluded from all the extra Royal Restorations from 19th chests too. Cause why stop at what 10th chest gets you, right? If I'm entitled to 10 chests for checking in once a week, then I'm equally entitled to 19 chests. A 19th chest FS should let me timeshare on their dime too. Or do we arbitrary draw the line and say 11th chest is just too many freebies? Throw 250 diamonds in there while we're at it. They shouldn't be barred from group rewards of Gold Spire either. :rolleyes: And if the only way to play the way you want and get a "free" blueprint is via piggybacking on the efforts of others, then sounds to me like you're still going to be helpless and at the whims and charity of others.

If you're the AM and want to open your FS to charity, then hey, all the power to you. Personally, I think that creates two sets of standards within a fellowship, which will inevitably create strife and low morale. Most FS hold minimums to ensure that blueprint is obtained. If you hold one group to their fair share of the blueprint and another group to no standards whatsoever, then how long before the regulars smarten up and realize they don't have to meet minimums either? Your workhorses doing most of the heavy lifting will probably all band together and leave. Pretty soon, you can't meet the 40k to get the blueprint anyway to be charitable.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I will say some should change fellowships. :)
I like this. Have the server track the total growth of every fellowship and if a few individual's growth is the only change, send them an in game message "The fellowship you are in appears moribund. if you'd like to look for a more active one, please visit the forum to look for more ative players."
 
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