• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

How do I get the squads to start fighting

turfboss

Member
GolddustMisty said:
Thank you for the great information on fighting. But I still don't understand how you make them fight. I only have Sword dancers and Archers. The quest I am on said that I have to win 5 fights. Well needless to said that I lost my first only fight so far. Because I do not know what I am doing. GolddustMisty

I copied this from Mykan's Battle Guide - since he suggested GolddustMisty start a thread here and ask that question - I have exactly the same question (and I have seen others asking similar related questions) - I am in chapter 2 as well - I have Axe Barbarians, CrossBows and now Paladins - I too have a quest to win 5 battles and although I have not tried since obtaining Paladins (today) - I have lost every battle I have attempted since day 1. I have read all of Mykan's Battle Guide as well as most posts by SoggyShorts and others commenting on the plan and their experiences as well as answering others questions (most of which deal with chapters far in advance of where GolddustMisty and I are currently struggling to get started.

I am at squad size 36 (soon to be at 51) and working hard to get to level 6 and hence squad size 69) - I understand the pentagon for which units are better against other units and I think I understand the order of placement based on terrain but I don't understand how to "scout" that terrain nor do I seem to be able to figure out how to start the battle short of moving a squad forward and having it almost immediately be killed by the enemy on their first turn.

If some one could explain a bit about scouting the terrain for better placement and how to control the actual start of the battle and control of movement it would be a huge help to those of us just getting started. Thanks in advance.....
 

DeletedUser3696

Guest
Scouting terrain is as simple as putting in your highest initiative troop and then running/fleeing the battle as soon as it's their turn. This allows you to see their placement, the terrain and how you may go about setting your troops up to maximize their effectiveness.

My strategy is almost always - how do I hit them first? This can mean putting my troops where no obstacles are in their way and they can march straight ahead and attack. It also could mean simply standing my ground and passing their turn and waiting for the enemy to come to me, letting me hit them in the second round. Sometimes it means moving troops up or down so they can get out of the way of the enemies first round attacks.

Give it some time and have some patience.

I'm not sure when you can invest in tournaments, but they are the easiest place to start winning your battles - which I believe do count for quests.
 

DeletedUser4671

Guest
Each tournament province is located directly over it's corresponding conquered relic province. This means that you can only complete as many tournament provinces as you have completed the corresponding relic province. Tournaments do not count for quests because you have already conquered the encounters once before already. You cannot receive additional quest rewards from an already completed province. However, since the relics are newly rewarded items, these can be used to accomplish quests.
 

Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
TurfBoss,
First thing to do is to use a unit of Crossbowman (Archers for the Elves) to scout the battle. Crossbow/Archers have the highest initiative for a basic troop type. Start the fight like you normally would, but use only one squad of archers. DO NOT MOVE THEM. The battle has started and is waiting on you to do something. Study the terrain and the placement of the enemy. Figure out how quickly you can get to the enemy. Then hit Surrender. You lose the fight, but there are no real negatives. Start the fight again with your troops in place. The order that you line your troops up is 1,2,3,4,5. They show up on the battlefield in the following order from top to bottom: 4,2,1,3,5. If you don't like where things are lined up, surrender again. You may loose a few troops, but it is probably worth it to line your troops you correctly.

Sometimes it is worth it to delay your attacks and let your enemy come to you. I am not sure the best way to explain it so you will have to learn this with experience.

Until you get through chapter 3, squad size and lack of all the variety of troop types will be a major issue for you. The squad size is something that has been brought up to the developers and is hopefully be worked on.

I hope these pointers not only answer your questions, but also give you the edge that you need to win.
 

turfboss

Member
Thistleknot - Thank you for this latest input - I now have a lot more understanding (not that it will help me win many battles because of squad size and lack of more powerful troops) but it will help me understand how to scout terrain (things are not explained in a lot of detail elsewhere so I didn't realize how to get out of the scouting situation by surrendering - I am guessing I do lose those troops when I surrender?? ) but your explanation has helped a lot. Letting the enemy move first in some cases makes sense since I can then move and counter - my problem in all the battles so far is I move to a position - the squad does not seem to attack - the enemy counter attack immediately wipes out the whole squad (cause I am only at 51 archers or axes while some of them are at 36 but cannoners - and boom I'm toast - I am however growing and learning (by reading and by devastation in battle) and eventually I will get into chapter 3.

Another question or three -- (1) where do I find out more about tournaments are they on some regular basis? and (2) can I just go fight in those provinces which originally were my beginning ring provinces - hopefully both to win some of those relics and learn against less formidable foe - OR - (3) are the foe in those provinces now upgraded as well and hence it makes little difference which provinces I attempt to fight in??

Thanks also to Kayleegrrl and Areane for those inputs.
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
Unlike many people, I prefer to send in more than one unit to scout terrain. I normally send in 1-3 archer squads and whichever units I know I will be using against the enemy so I can better see which of my units will be able to hit them first or vice versa. I sometimes even attack a unit to see how much damage I will deal (but be very careful with this due to *range strikeback*). It's not unusual for me to surrender and reload the fight multiple times to better position my units. I study the battlefield closely to see which enemy will move first, their attack range, and to predict enemy movement.

You mentioned cannoneers. Those are nasty beasties indeed. Their attack range covers half the battlefield so there's no use trying to evade them. My advice would be to avoid any such encounters and close other provinces first or negotiate those if you have no other options. Otherwise, send all your axe barbarians against them, but only if you can reach them within 2-3 rounds or you're toast. When I faced them with my sword dancers, I had to calculate how many I could kill in this round and the next and the next and vice versa to see who would win and if my other troops could take out the other stacks as well. You can run the Battle Simulator in Elven Architect to see the results although that site for now only deals with one-against-one unit type fights.

Things you will definitely need to consider are initiative, movement, and attack range because these will affect if the enemy can hit you first. As of now, only the ranger and mist walker have a higher initiative than the crossbowman or archer. You can find all unit info in Elven Architect or in my Battle Sheet (linked below). Be aware also that some units have *range strikeback*, meaning they can retaliate from afar. I got a nasty shock from the knight's ability to retaliate from 2 hexes away instead of the previous adjacent one and, before that, I was shocked by his ability to pierce through hedges when my hovering sorceresses can't even fly over bushes (talk about misleading graphics -- sorceresses who look like they can fly but can't was a major disappointment). Btw, Elvenar Platinum Leaf on Facebook also has great resources for fighting specific province combination. You can even post pictures of your troops and the enemy troops there or here and get advice from experienced players.

There's so much info to go through that it can be overwhelming but you'll get the hang of it once you've got more fights under your belt. I rarely need to look closely at my Battle Sheet (which pools info from Platinum Leaf, these forums, and Elven Architect) anymore and only do so to check initiative, movement, and attack range. I can see all that info in-game but it's much faster for me to see it in my Battle Sheet and, sometimes (very frequently before), I input info in my spreadsheet to see if I can kill a stack with one strike. However, I must add that negotiating is faster and much less stressful than fighting. I really focused -- and still do -- on goods production (I usually have no culture bonus or am at negative and currently I'm at -6000 culture which is only half of a previous -12000) since I need goods for many things. I deliberately created an economy that would allow me to participate in 7 tournaments up to the 5th province (3 for my boosted goods plus 4 for spell ingredients and am now at the point where I just need 1 more gems tourney to almost max out my boost so I can finally see my goods stockpile increase).

Best of luck!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Thistleknot - Thank you for this latest input - I now have a lot more understanding (not that it will help me win many battles because of squad size and lack of more powerful troops) but it will help me understand how to scout terrain (things are not explained in a lot of detail elsewhere so I didn't realize how to get out of the scouting situation by surrendering - I am guessing I do lose those troops when I surrender?? ) but your explanation has helped a lot. Letting the enemy move first in some cases makes sense since I can then move and counter - my problem in all the battles so far is I move to a position - the squad does not seem to attack - the enemy counter attack immediately wipes out the whole squad (cause I am only at 51 archers or axes while some of them are at 36 but cannoners - and boom I'm toast - I am however growing and learning (by reading and by devastation in battle) and eventually I will get into chapter 3.

Another question or three -- (1) where do I find out more about tournaments are they on some regular basis? and (2) can I just go fight in those provinces which originally were my beginning ring provinces - hopefully both to win some of those relics and learn against less formidable foe - OR - (3) are the foe in those provinces now upgraded as well and hence it makes little difference which provinces I attempt to fight in??

Thanks also to Kayleegrrl and Areane for those inputs.

You don't lose any men when surrendering other that any you have lost during the battle, tournaments start every Tuesday and go till Saturday. the tournaments show up on provinces you have beaten of that type of tourney( ex. this weeks tournament is steel so you can fight as many as you have steel provinces beaten.). The squad sizes are smaller so you wont lose as many men, so good place to practice, also the first couple are very cheap to negotiate if you find some too hard to beat. Remember archers are the highest initiative so use them to check the battlefield layout then surrender and pick your men, if they don't go where you want them just surrender and try again, also if the battle is going badly surrender and pick different men or setup, or just cater (negotiate it). Mykan's fighting guide will help, as it tells you what enemy's you will find in each tourney province and what troops are best to use against them. https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-fighting-guide.4205/
Hope this helps!!
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser4778

Guest
To add to what Sir Squirrel has said (sorry, meant to answer all your questions but I'm still not awake; thank goodness Sir Squirrel answered everything), yes, it's the Steel tournament this week and it's my favorite because it's mostly or all melee so the chances of me getting perfect victories (i.e. no casualties) is high especially if it's the very slow orc generals. I normally use light range and heavy range here. I usually kill Thornrose Mages with one or two hits. Then I focus on thieves and/or knights. I leave the slowest units for last. Just shoot from afar with your light range and position carefully. Every move counts! I always set up for the next move based on where the enemy will probably go next or where I need to go to wipe out or hit my desired target/s. You can find more details in my Battle Sheet thread in the Help section. Also, I forgot to mention that the enemy tends to go for whoever has the highest initiative or, if they can't reach him, whoever is nearest so that's a consideration when selecting your troop numbers. It's not much of a consideration for you yet since you only have two unit types to choose from but it will definitely count later.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

turfboss

Member
Many (a whole bunch of) thanks to Draconomicon and Sir Squirrel for this positioning and thinking insight as well as the links to specific references and available spreadsheets, etc - I am not quite to the tournaments block in Chapter 2 - but do have both the Paladin and a training ground now for Cerebus and will soon have the first upgrade for AxeMen - another week or two and I will be at the end of Chapter 2 and ready to fight rather than negotiate (at least part of the time - and I will do tournaments as soon as I am able - and at least we get to keep the relics even if winning a battle in the tournaments does not count toward the quests (for snowflakes right now).
 

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Just to clarify, the relics you win in tournaments do count towards the gain relics quests, but they don't count against a solve 4 encounters quest as they are not encounters. Encounters are on open provinces that you haven't beaten yet.
 

DeletedUser6167

Guest
You know I am a new player as well. I do not understand quite yet the concept of fighting moves. So I just put it on auto fight and watch what my fighter's are doing and how they are moving. I suggest you do the same as I for now.
 
Top