How do YOU feel about Cross-tier Trading?

[Jackluyt]

Cross-tier trading is a contentious issue that rears its head from time to time in fellowships where some players have massive Tier Two and Three manufacturing capacity.

Let's use me as an example: I have five L15 Gems manufactories that produce 4900 Gems every 3 hours - even without the Spell of Ensorcelled Empowerment!

This screenshot below shows that if I posted all of that cross-tier, the amount of Gems I produce every 3 hours could be traded for 24 000 of each of the Tier One Goods Marble, Steel and Planks!
I harvest my factories 4 - 6 times a day - so if I traded irresponsibly, I could gobble up 120 000 every day. That's most of the Tier One production of the Fellowship - leaving little or nothing for anyone else!

That is why many High Level fellowships have banned cross-tier trading entirely.

Tier One goods are low-yield - particularly Marble.
So in the past a few inconsiderate players sold all their Tier One units and built only high-yield T3 - leaving the other fellowship members to produce their unprofitable T1 for them.
Which is patently unfair!

When I founded Platinum Leaf, I felt that a total ban was harsh - so x-tiering is allowed.
But players are asked to exercise restraint, and to do the majority of their trading on the same Tier.

If you need, say, 10 000 Planks, and your Boost is Marble - then post 9 000 Marble for Planks, and perhaps make up the rest with some small cross-tier posts.
It is also good practice to mark those trades in some way, so the fellowship members can easily see that they are not EXPECTED to take them.
Many fellowships have a system to mark non-urgent trades - for example put a '1' at the end of your trade: Gems 71 for Marble 1136.
It is also good manners to 'sweeten the deal' on cross tier trades which are disadvantageous to the player who accepts them - so if I were posting this one, I would make it Gems 71 for Marble 1036.

What happens if you don't have enough Marble that day?
Make some more!


Of course nothing is cast in stone.
(Not even Marble )
If you have an agreement with another player - then you can post any trade you wish!

I think all of this is fair.
Do you?

Tip # 69: "Cross-tier Trading - a contentious issue" from Facebook Group Elvenar Platinum Leaf

 

[WolfSinger]

For me personally, I will not pick up a cross tier trade unless it is a 3 star trade and I have an high abundance (at that moment) of the good they are asking for. When I post cross tier trades - I try to request 1/2 the amount that would be a normal fair trade. For example - the trade ratio for tier 2 to tier 1 is 4 100 of the tier 2 goods for 400 of the tier 1 goods - I try to post those based on a 2 to one ratio. 100 tier 2 for 200 tier 1. (Same for tier 3 for tier 2 goods) // For tier 3 for tier 1 goods I'll usually go for a 1 for 5 ratio - 100 tier 3 goods for 500 tier 1 goods. I also try to make these smaller trade amounts so no one gets hits with a huge trade - if they choose to pick them up.

 

[DeletedUser594]

It can be a help early on when players are working their way up to tiers 2 & 3. Once everyone is well established it just becomes a drain on resources and creates imbalances that can impede trade flow if too many engage too often. I also find that I close some 100:1600 trades by mistake when zipping through the trader trying to move goods throughout the fellowship.
Once you reach a certain point the coin and supply are not much of a factor in the actual value of the goods- for me it's about time to produce/replace the goods and what I can do with those goods. With 1600 marble I can negotiate a fairly high ransom. With 100 gems/elix... I can get maybe a cup of coffee and donut if we had an elven seven eleven.

 

[Jackluyt]

for me it's about time to produce/replace the goods and what I can do with those goods.

Indeed!
And that is a deficiency in the current trading system, IMHO.
1600:100 should be 'tweaked' - to perhaps 1000:100

For me personally, I will not pick up a cross tier trade unless it is a 3 star trade and I have an high abundance (at that moment) of the good they are asking for. When I post cross tier trades - I try to request 1/2 the amount that would be a normal fair trade. For example - the trade ratio for tier 2 to tier 1 is 4 100 of the tier 2 goods for 400 of the tier 1 goods - I try to post those based on a 2 to one ratio. 100 tier 2 for 200 tier 1. (Same for tier 3 for tier 2 goods) // For tier 3 for tier 1 goods I'll usually go for a 1 for 5 ratio - 100 tier 3 goods for 500 tier 1 goods. I also try to make these smaller trade amounts so no one gets hits with a huge trade - if they choose to pick them up.

Here's my idea of a 'fair' spread of trades.
I do agree that my x-tier trades might be a little more generous

 

[DeletedUser43]

So in the past a few inconsiderate players sold all their Tier One units and built only high-yield T3 - leaving the other fellowship members to produce their unprofitable T1 for them.
Which is patently unfair!

It isn't unfair at all. If a person is picking up a trade then they value what they are getting. If you don't want to pick up a trade for something...don't. People really need to learn the word no. If you pick up a trade you don't want that is your issue.

If those foolish players got told no, then in a day or two they would run out of their t1 goods and quickly realize their folly. Then they would have lost a lot time and they would need to build the t1 factories again. The only person that is unfair to is themselves.

Those trades don't mean a thing to me. They are trades I simply won't fill. What do I care if they sit there? Unless it is a member that needs help because they are new or something. Then I will help them, but I see it as charity and I am fine giving charity.

This is an interesting thread. Often in life I see people getting terribly upset that someone dared ask them for something. I don't know when the concept started that saying no was rude, but it has to stop. Nothing is more rude than saying yes when you are just going to resent the person afterward.

Learn to be comfortable with saying no. It will make your whole life better!!

 

[DeletedUser706]

I generally do not pick up cross tier trades because to me the single most precious resource in Elvenar is TIME. I prefer to keep resource production balanced across tiers, i.e. roughly equal amounts of production per given cycle (3h/9h) for each tier. Picking up a T1/T3 for e.g. a 3 hr quota of T3 goods translates to me as trading 3 hrs worth of T3 production against 2 days worth of T1 production; so thats a no-no to me. Of course helping fellowship members getting up to speed (early development of T2/T3 can certainly use a boost of those goods) is a typical exception to this rule.

 

[DeletedUser]

Like so many others, I won't pick up cross-tier trades unless I really need the offered tier or unless the player is new. So I do just let them sit there. If you want to post cross-tier trades, that's your prerogative, but it's also mine to ignore them.

 

[Jackluyt]

If you don't want to pick up a trade for something...don't. People really need to learn the word no. If you pick up a trade you don't want that is your issue.

The points you make are good Bobby.
The problem that I have, is that our Fellowship Guidelines ask people always to accept requests for their Boosted goods, provided they have adequate stocks.
We made this condition at the time we were persuading people to sell their non-boosted factories. It seemed fair to offer them a guarantee that they would not go short of the goods they needed.

Following your comment, I changed the Guidelines as follows:

"TRADES

Trades less than 2-star are allowed - but by arrangement between 2 players only.

Here is a simple system that some players use - though it is not compulsory:
Trades ending in:
... '0' are stuff that they really need; give generously if you can!
... '1' are less urgent - accept them if you have spare.

Cross-Tier trades are allowed - but please do not over-use them. Try to make trades on the same Tier, where possible.

Please try to accept all <reasonable> requests for your own Boosted goods."​

​

NB: I deliberately did not try to define <reasonable>: That is for each player to decide for him / herself!
Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[DeletedUser1792]

Like so many others, I won't pick up cross-tier trades unless I really need the offered tier or unless the player is new. So I do just let them sit there. If you want to post cross-tier trades, that's your prerogative, but it's also mine to ignore them.

I exactly do the same but of course the players should be allowed to post those kind of "cross tier trades". If someone accepts these trades because she or he thinks it is fair then it is her or his issue

 

[DeletedUser627]

Some of the imbalance in production began way back when players were waiting on Dwarven...they had nothing better to do than upgrade to as many T3's as possible. During that stage of game development, it was always helpful to have strong fellowship members who could help everyone else with the more rare magical goods. We just got used to the cross-tier trades.

Subsequently, though, I like seeing everyone carry their own weight and maintain some balance of all three goods levels. If, for example, a player doesn't produce T2 goods, she's essentially asking others to subsidize her higher score: they have the lower scoring buildings while she has the higher ones.

I like to pick up all my small neighbors cross-tier trades, though. It's pretty frustrating, scrambling for 50 gems here or there!

Some of these issues will be disappearing, the farther we move into the research. As of now, all T2's score the same - and there's also per grid parity cross tier. My planks score identically to my silk, for example, so there's no advantage to delete T1 for T2.

As to the 16:1 ratio: this is directly related to the Supply cost for producing the goods. Given that supplies are the most rare component in the game, it's fair to equate goods costs to Supply costs.

 

[DeletedUser1792]

Given that supplies are the most rare component in the game, it's fair to equate goods costs to Supply costs.

Well fine - given that supplies are the most rare component in this game but because of the declineable quests supplies aren´t rare right now. Therefore I wouldn´t accept these 1:16 trades. Without these declineable quests and endless count of supplies, which you can gain right now, it would be fair. But as I said before: It is everybody´s own decision which offers the player accepts.

 

[DeletedUser43]

our Fellowship Guidelines require people always to accept requests for their Boosted goods, provided they have adequate stocks.

Well then, now you have many problems.

You forced your fellowship to act a certain way and now you are trying to force them all to like it.

How about you remove the force?

If your fellowship is balanced then all that will work out on its own. If not, then the balance is off. If you have players who aren't playing, then you can work on getting players who are.

 

[DeletedUser637]

You forced your fellowship to act a certain way and now you are trying to force them all to like it.

It is so-called "Inno Way".

 

[DeletedUser1792]

It is so-called "Inno Way".

It seems, that if we play Inno´s games long enough we start to apply their methods

 

[DeletedUser627]

@Jackluyt Every fellowship has its own groove, and yours looks good. Some fellowships are "live and let live", other are "live this certain way". Haven't we seen Fellowships ripped apart when expectations aren't met? Defining expectations of fellowship members is probably the best way to go since it seems likely that fellowships may become more important.

"Senedal said.. given that supplies are the most rare component in this game but because of the declineable quests supplies aren´t rare right now."

I'm guessing that you don't work the declinables. It's very time-consuming, and doesn't produce excess supplies.

 

[DeletedUser1590]

My fellowship doesn't do tier 1 / tier 3 trades. Other than that, we post what we need and accept what we can when we can. There are plenty of times I take peoples trades and substantially deplete one of my resources to do so because I know that when I need the goods I traded away someone will be there to trade them back to me. It works just fine. But that's my fellowship. Plus, our fellowship is very well balanced with who produces what. We're not top heavy with any single product. As a result, I don't have any issues with the trade system.

 

[DeletedUser626]

Well fine - given that supplies are the most rare component in this game but because of the declineable quests supplies aren´t rare right now.

regarding cross-tier trades, i won't take them even if they are 3 stars most of the time.

i disagree, supplies are rare even with the OPTION to cycle quests to get them. it's a lot of clicks to get to the supply quest, in my humble opinion the game is much easier if you use the relic costing spell to increase supply output of your workshop/s. fewer clicks.. just saying.

 

[DeletedUser9433]

I have to wonder if there are any players who have never posted a cross tier trade ever since they started playing the game? Especially when players are new or don't belong to a fellowship they might just not know or care. While it might create an imbalance in your goods when you take a cross tier trade, no one is forcing someone to take it and there have been a couple of times I really needed a third tier good in a small amount so I took the cross tier trade. I never have been one to conform, yes I had all goods in existence at one time and I didn't care what anyone thought. Even turned down some top fellowships because of the restrictions they placed on their members. Eventually I started selling off the non-boosted manufactures to make room for larger buildings and the needed population but it was because I chose to do it, not some fanatic trying to force me to play their way. I did advise members in our fellowship that they might need to consider their boosted goods in their cities might not be balanced to help them advance in the game if they are always needing to do cross tier trades, but that is where I left it.

 

[HJK84]

@1Cinner How did you even find this thread lol

I wasn't around when this was posted.
But I'll give my 2 cents.

I think it's fine.
But abusing it isn't. To me abuse is, if you're only building T3 goods as @Jackluyt mentioned, people selling off T1 Manus to only make T3, that's kind of harsh and selfish Imo.

Also, I must defend people in certain chapters. Once most of us unlock T3 Boosted Manus, and start making them, for a while, we don't need ample amounts of T3 Goods.
And so, if you have alot of them and not using, why not do cross tier trades? It might even help out more advanced players who desperately need more T3 Goods.

Another thing, I can mention. There are many players who stock pile all goods. Sometimes cross tier trading balances them out, where they're lacking (even if they have millions)
Also, more advanced players create so many goods, in variety, they can easily accept such trades. "Specially if it's for a good reason, mentioned below"

Personally, I have all tier boosted manus. Due to my play style, since I began, my T3 Goods have been growing with practically 0 use.
Therefore, after each tournament, I do cross tier trades to recoup my losses and prep for the next tournament.
My FS... I believe realize my efforts in tournaments and are willing to help me out this way, since they aren't into tournaments.
I don't think I'm alone when I say, I have good neighbors and a good fellowship, where people see the reasoning behind my needs and accept my trades.
This week I started offering 3 stars for these trades, and some of my other normal ones, since I'm so active I thought to myself I should be a tad generous as others are

Other things to mention.
In a FS, for me that is, you make friends. And why not help each other when in need? Even if it makes you go broke, I always try to help and offer help for everything my FS needs. And AM does the same. If I see abuse... I will speak up, and I would hope people would do the same to me.

@Jackluyt mentioned "TIME", which to me is relative (haha) but anyway, again it depends on the players style of gaming. Going broke or not, to help a friend/Fs member, then having to wait to rebuild, thus delaying your next tech advancement... well to me is a no brainer, what's the rush?
Although, I do respect some who want to rush, go for it!!! I love speedsters, like finishing events in 2-3 days as I have. If that's your gameplay, don't accept trades that hinder you, simple

Cool thread, still astonished as to a year old thread being revamped by us "noobs"

 

[DeletedUser]

a year old thread

Two year old thread, H. So nostalgic.