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How do YOU feel about Cross-tier Trading?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jackluyt, Apr 27, 2016.

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How do YOU feel about Cross-tier Trading in a fellowship?

  1. Should not be allowed - it is unfair

    8 vote(s)
    10.1%
  2. Should be allowed - no one forces you to take the trades

    41 vote(s)
    51.9%
  3. Should be allowed - but members should exercise restraint

    30 vote(s)
    38.0%
  1. Pheryll

    Pheryll Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    I get your point, but necro-posting to a thread started two years ago seems odd. The context often significantly changes over time.
     
    mucksterme and Azkaban like this.
  2. Sheianna

    Sheianna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Hadn't noticed until it was mentioned that it was an old thread. Still, perhaps this is the search function in action and Cross Tier Trading is still an issue today as much, if not more, than it was back when this tread was first started.

    I've been noticing an increase in cross tier trades. It's actually difficult on some days to find trades that aren't cross tier and most of them only 2 star! On the whole, I don't have a problem with these trades, providing they are 3 star trades and offer enough goods to make them worthwhile. I will not pick up 2 star cross tier trades though unless it's from a Fellowship member who has stated a need for these goods to complete a quest or research or to upgrade a building. All the Fellowships I'm in allow them but ask that they be kept to a minimum and require them to be 3 star trades, except by previous arrangement with another member or neighbor.
     
    CiraKelley and alainemk like this.
  3. Jackluyt

    Jackluyt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
  4. Lord Draconian

    Lord Draconian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    I thought they shouldn't exist back then and I think that even more now... In addition to the general off balance talked about forever, so many big cities now only produce boosted T3 goods and have support cities for the rest... I can only assume that with T4, T5, T6 in a full world market that the trade metric which I feel is horrible will only get much much worse. I think the only "fair" way would be to only have same tier and only 2 star even though everything I post is 3... The trader is the second most abused metric in the game behind AW/KP donation. They both need completely rethought.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  5. Azkaban

    Azkaban Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Making cross-tier trades impossible means changing the way quests and Events are done. If a player with only T1 goods can't "gain a small amount" of T2 or T3 goods they can't complete the quest or Event. Most of my cities have all three tiers, and I still need to do cross-tier trades for goods I can't buy from the wholesaler. If cross-tier trades were ended, that would be a big incentive for me to play less, or quit all-together.
     
    Laochra, HJK84, Sheianna and 4 others like this.
  6. wtfever

    wtfever Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I'm 100% fine with it for smaller players just trying to build. I take every one of them that I see.
    The people trying to trade 2k T3 for 32k T1 can stuff it.
     
  7. Zuphirael

    Zuphirael New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    I have to say I totally agree that a ban on cross-tier trades would put a serious handicap on new players. I think we need to encourage the new players as much as possible. If we don't have new people coming in eventually things will stagnate and decline. I see how few of my neighbors who start out stick with the game. I'll say maybe 20%, and that's being very generous. I've also started finding Chapter 6 and higher cities that are abandoned as well. Many of these were active just a few months ago.

    My point is that we need to encourage the new players that do stay and putting these glass ceilings up is only going to discourage them. The game allows cross-tier trades so why the need for restrictions that the game itself isn't even imposing? I think that perhaps many of the higher chapter players have forgotten what the struggle was like starting out. New players have enough disadvantages without more being imposed against them by their own FS.

    I don't see a huge problem with cross-tier trading. If you do the math it works out, 1 Tier-3 is worth 4 Tier-2 is worth 16 Tier-1. I'll grant you that it's not a perfect analogy but I view cross-tier trading no different than someone offering you 5 singles for a 5-er or 4 5-er's for a 20. Sometimes you need Marble and other times Gems and one won't work for the other but with a cross-tier trade you can convert them. There is no loss of value, only a change of form. Value is only lost when producing non-boosted goods or trading outside 2-star trades.

    Where I do see a problem with cross-tier trades is when that is all a person offers. I have a neighbor who only makes cross-tier trades and they are mostly Tier 3 for Tier 1 trades. I'm not even sure why they trade like this. I assumed they only had Tier 3 manufactories and were trading for everything else but it turns out there is only one non-boosted good that they are not producing themselves. For all the non-boosted manufactories they have they are still having to trade for what they need but the trades are up for days because no one wants them. Even if you're willing to take them, which I am, you quickly deplete Tier 1 goods when trading for Tier 3 goods so it's very self limiting. In this situation I think it is very detrimental to their city growth. Those around are deprived of potential trades but not as much as they are holding themselves back waiting for trades that aren't coming in because people can't handle them or just won't take them.
     
    Laochra and Azkaban like this.
  8. skeeter6060

    skeeter6060 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    I see nothing wrong with cross-tier trades if you don't like the deal don't take it if you give things some time the trade you are looking for will come. I use cross-tier trades always offer 3 star trades but that is my choice and they go fast. We also use them in our fellowship for the newer players to help them grow faster and as mentioned in other post they are needed in quest and events. it is good to have discussions on subjects in the game you don't like but there is never anything in life you are going to agree 100% with and somethings you might really like someone else doesn't but you wouldn't like them to get rid of,so we all must be a little acceptive of things we don't totally like
     
    Azkaban, shimmerfly and Tedious like this.
  9. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    @SoggyShorts has replied previously and with better detail, but this is a terribly flawed comparison. The only thing in the game that is in finite supply is land, and T1 takes much more land to produce the same quantity as T2 or T3. Regarding the only thing that actually matters in the game, T1 is more expensive to produce than T2, which is more expensive to produce than T3.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  10. Tedious

    Tedious Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Its been stated plenty, but don't take a cross tier trade if you don't like it.
    I'll take anything that's 5:2:1 or better, and I'll happily send 100 gems to the rookie offering 1,600 marble.

    The whole complaint/request for trader restrictions is very silly. There are plenty of options available to people complaining:
    1. find a better FS that matches your goods' need.
    2. send a note to the person posting the offending trades.
    3. do a better job sorting trades in the trader screen.
    4. have non-boosted factories if you really can't find the good you need (highly unlikely...).

    To try to put restrictions on everyone else is completely overkill, and if you think Inno would even entertain the change, brace for disappointment.
     
    Laochra, CiraKelley, HJK84 and 3 others like this.
  11. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    To be fair, there are quite a few of us who are not asking for a restriction on trading, we just want the trader to mark the fairness of cross tier trades in a way that better reflects the reality, and to suggest different values than it currently does when you offer a cross-tier trade.
     
  12. Tedious

    Tedious Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Agreed. I was not aiming my post at the entirety of this thread; only some posters.

    Fixing the defaults would be great. I just wouldn't hold my breath on that, for 2 reasons. 1. The "right" ratio varies depending on which chapter you are in, and therefore the "right" ratio is necessarily not "right" for every possible recipient of your trade. Its minor differences chapter-to-chapter, but still a challenge. 2. Its been a known problem for 2 years, and Inno has done nothing. I think its just one of those "problems" that they trust players to fix themselves. And for the most part I think it has in more experienced fellowships.
     
    samidodamage likes this.
  13. Deborah M

    Deborah M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    I use the filters in the trader all the time so it doesn't matter to me if cross tier trades are there. I just ignore them since I usually don't even see them.

    I also just can't afford to worry about it now since I'm really not liking the results from eliminating 1 of each factory to make room for Elementals. Rebuilding 1 each T1 & T2 now. Then I'm hoping to feel more confident about taking some cross tier trades posted by players in my FS only. They come through for me big time so I really want to be able to return the favor once I'm more balanced again.
     
  14. hvariidh gwendrot

    hvariidh gwendrot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    as a real noob what i am seeing is me and 2 others of my neighbors posting 2 and 3 star trades and everyone else at best 1 star .. is there a wall of shame to screen shot and post these continuous bad offers ? maybe that will encourage these players to put up worthwhile swaps
     
  15. Deborah M

    Deborah M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Check whether there is a yellow circle with little exclamation point next to the stars. If that is there then there is a 50% trader fee that you get if that person is not in your FS or you have not explored to their city yet.
     
  16. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    the problem with bad trades is two-fold.

    1) that they are self-promoting. People take the two and three star trades quickly while the one star trades are left for days at a time, so new players may see lots of one star trades and think it's resonable.

    2) new/small players, who haven't explored much see the trades with fees, and don't necessarily notice the fee icon, so they think everyone around them is offering bad trades so why shouldn't they. Added to that, even if they do see the fee, they may think that the larger players can more readily afford to absob the fee than they can, and might not even be paying it, so they offer the one-star trade to see if it gets taken.
     
  17. Lord Draconian

    Lord Draconian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    I very much support complete overkill in a couple of the most abused areas.

    That said I do also realize it would hurt 80% of standard players to hurt 5% of questionable players... I also understand there are some code compromises that wouldn't be overkill but would help... and I agree that INNO will never do any of them but rather keep compounding very old problems with new metrics.

    As we've been through a million times before there is way to much grey area between what are personal game ethics and actual abuse of metrics and way to much overlap of premium players and blatant cheaters. Both of which are in the Dev's best interest to just ignore.

    But my personal opinion, for the sake of theoretical forum discussion, is overkill. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  18. hvariidh gwendrot

    hvariidh gwendrot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    i'm doing provinces on my 6th ring already and today i am 1 month in the game and i see which has and hasn't been discovered for free trades and these people still post really bad trades :eek:
     
    shimmerfly likes this.
  19. Zuphirael

    Zuphirael New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    I'm finding lots of new players are putting up zero-star trades which are either one-star and because I've not discovered them they are coming across to me as zero-star or they really are posting zero-star trades. My complaint is that I can't contact these people to tell them that two-stars would get them further because they either don't bother with their messages or more likely, they are playing exclusively on the App and we can't communicate with them. It would be amazing if Inno would get messaging to work on the App.
     
    Laochra and shimmerfly like this.
  20. Jackluyt

    Jackluyt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    I had a player once who sold all his Tier One and Tier Two manufactories and insisted that the rest of the fellowship to make for him what he was not prepared to make himself.
    Needless to say, he is no longer with us...
    :)
     

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