How do YOU feel about Cross-tier Trading?

[DeletedUser]

This goes against my better judgement about commenting on necroed (is that even a word) threads but here goes

When I started playing FoE over 5 years ago there wasn't a guild only trade option and they added it after players asked for it
Also when FoE started there weren't any guilds just like Elvenar didn't have any Fellowships when it was released
So never say never when it comes to inno games

Never never never never never

In the long run, it doesn't really matter much. And I imagine somewhere "necroed" is in active use. If it isn't, it should be. And this doesn't really count as necroed anymore, since it's got about two pages of current activity.

 

[ekarat]

Your FS produces roughly 174K steel per day. Assuming those players want to balance their T1, that's
58K steel for planks
58K steel for marble
Your FS also makes 240K scrolls per day
80K scrolls for crystal
80K scrolls for silk
For T3 154K dust is
51K dust for elixir
51K dust for gems
--------------------
Total number of 2,000 trades per day: 189. That is 24 pages of trades every single day.

A 2K limit on trades might be the crappiest FS rule I've heard of.

Spoiler: These are my current trades up

View attachment 3916

There is a cap on the number of trades you can have up (I forget, but it's around 80 or so). I've hit that cap with a 5k limit, so a 2k limit would be unworkable.

We've had a change of leadership, and I think the new leader wants to build a community of people socializing and having fun together, but isn't as focused on playing efficiently. I think that's okay, but possibly a mismatch for me. The new 3 star trade rule does bother me, so I might start looking for another FS in Arendyll.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

There is a cap on the number of trades you can have up (I forget, but it's around 80 or so). I've hit that cap with a 5k limit, so a 2k limit would be unworkable.

We've had a change of leadership, and I think the new leader wants to build a community of people socializing and having fun together, but isn't as focused on playing efficiently. I think that's okay, but possibly a mismatch for me. The new 3 star trade rule does more than most.bother me, so I might start looking for another FS in Arendyll.

Can't blame you at all...
I have adopted the policy do what's right for me, and I switch FS more than most.

 

[Ashrem]

So never say never when it comes to inno games

Okaaaay, except nobody said "never" before you posted that. I said it's a bad idea (because of the the barren landscape of players), and Azkaban said it was part of FoE a few years ago but doesn't think it belongs here.

 

[Mykan]

I do not think cross-tier trades are the problem, so much as the star rating system values cross-tier trades inaccurately.

The star rating is fair for the measurement it is based on. Many players use a different measurement which is fine. I think the issue is people who try to abuse the system by living on T3 factories only or swamp the trader with 60 trades that are cross-tier only. I have some neighbours who place cross tier trades from time to time and they appear to be taken regularly. I know I grab them from time to time. The people I see who constantly post these trades appear to rarely have them taken.

Supply and demand tends to kick in a bit, if there was no demand at all for cross-tier trades the supply would stop but obviously there is some level of balance out there for these trades even those at 2 star rating as well as 3 star.

I could't imagine a limit of 5K on trades. I don't even like it when fellowships insist I place small trades for small players. Simply because a trade is open to anyone in the game and there is no guarantee that my small trade will be taken by the small person in my fellowship. The fellowships I play in take the opposite approach of asking people to regularly post what they need. The larger traders naturally clear those trades constantly and then place their large trades for their own needs. Works well and minimises the time spent in the trader. If everyone has what they need then there is no need for rules on trading cause everyone is happy.

 

[DeletedUser2824]

I could't imagine a limit of 5K on trades. I don't even fellowships insisting I place small trades for small players. Simply because a trade is open to anyone in the game and there is no guarantee that my small trade will be taken by the small person in my fellowship. The fellowships I play in take the opposite approach of asking people to regularly post what they need.

That has been pretty much been my approach. I do my best to clean out my fellowships trades at the end of my day, then post trades to balance my goods back out. My trades tend to be large and are aimed more towards my neighbors who can help balance out any goods we are short on as a fellowship. Once in awhile I get a player who asks for us to post smaller trades, and I have to explain to them that unless it's for a quest, it's best for them to post whatever trades they need for us to pick up.

And my pups know how much I dislike cross-tier trading, but even so, back in the early days of the fellowship, I only made it a hard rule to limit downward cross-tier trades. There are plenty of varying circumstances where one may need to do such a trade, and as long as they let us know in chat that they need it, most of us are happy to help. Abuse of the system is what I'm trying to avoid, and those who like to regularly flood the trader with those kinds of trades had better get used to them sitting around for awhile. Even friendly neighbors will get taxed after awhile. Instead, I try to give them tips on how to get more efficiency out of their cities. I've also adopted Soggy's 5.2.1 ratio for cross-tier trades when they are needed.

And yeah, I've dodged invites from fellowships before that had the 3 star trade rule. All you have to do is add 1 extra goods to your trade to qualify it as a 3 star. Wow, great. If I can afford to be generous, I'm gonna be generous. Used to have some friendly competition with a fellow back in my original city on who could do the best trades. Most 3 star trades get snapped up by folks outside of the fellowship anyway unless both parties are on arranging the trade. I'd much prefer players to post what they need, even if it's a "bad" trade, so we or a generous neighbor can get it and assure the goods went to the one who needed it. We've done plenty of 4.1 circle trades with new pups to get them going, explaining all the while that they shouldn't get used to it.

In the end, my fellowship rules and policies on trading are aimed at limiting abuse of a system, helping my pups enough without carrying them, and encouraging self sufficiency. I wanted to avoid "absolutes" that might stifle our needs, without saying that "anything goes".

 

[mucksterme]

We've done plenty of 4.1 circle trades with new pups to get them going, explaining all the while that they shouldn't get used to it.

Yes I have found you need to make sure they understand this is by special arrangement only.

 

[DeletedUser2824]

Yes I have found you need to make sure they understand this is by special arrangement only.

Yup, that fine tightrope walk of being helpful without breeding dependency. Most folks get it if you explain to them, but then there are always a few who never seem to get it, and blame you for not doing things their way.

The biggest type I like to avoid are the ones who are constantly questioning why no one has taken their trades, even the ones that have only been up an hour or two. Had a player in my original city's fellowship who posted a lot of 1 star or cross-tier trades and was very close to demanding when asking for us to take them. He then raised hell when another fellow mentioned that they didn't really like to take cross-tier trades.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

The biggest type I like to avoid are the ones who are constantly questioning why no one has taken their trades, even the ones that have only been up an hour or two.

These people are the WOOOORST. Its always during a Planks tournament, too, when the FS has 2 Planks producers, and everyone in the world needs Planks, and this jerk posted 48 100gems:1600Planks trades. There was a previous post about "blacklists" and I poo-pooed the idea. But maybe we should have one for this guy.

 

[DeletedUser16361]

Can someone point me to the latest info on what the general best practice is for what the ideal ratio one should produce?

Like when i used to track tournaments a long time ago I determined a player should produce something like 1.8x the T1 as T2 and T3...
I think it's more balanced now...

Reason i'm asking is I think this is a good thing for me to add to elvenstats is the amount of each Tier a player builds as a metric for mages to give guidance on. Hey Johnny, you probably need to add more of T2 and reduce your T3's... kinda thing.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I have kept a 7,7,7 1,1 ratio so far but then again I have the full 132 city plots
7 Tier 1
7 Tier 2
7 Tier 3
1 Tier T4
1 Tier T5
Since I am done scouting for awhile my inventory has picked up

Spoiler: Inventory

 

[DeletedUser16361]

Thanks for that jps54. But, I'm looking for more of the raw ratios needed in like tournaments. Counts of manufactories vary too much between chapters.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@elvenstats
That might be really hard to come up with, especially for lower chapters. The requirement for needing T2 goods in tournaments happens somewhere around the 140 SS mark, which is in chapter 4 if you skip some techs-- long after you start making T3 goods, and way past when you start making T2. If a player never skips techs, it can be very different.
For example you need orcs to cater somewhere between early chapter 9 and late chapter 11 depending on how many techs you take(1250 SS). Same goes for the mix of goods.
The world map is equally problematic since you'd have to know how far they have over/under scouted as that drastically effects which mix of tiers is needed to negotiate.
Then there is the question of what if anything is cleared using military instead of goods.

So the only measurement that is constant would be techs, and those are actually quite cheap, using only a very small portion of the average player's productions.

 

[Mykan]

Can someone point me to the latest info on what the general best practice is for what the ideal ratio one should produce?

Reason i'm asking is I think this is a good thing for me to add to elvenstats is the amount of each Tier a player builds as a metric for mages to give guidance on. Hey Johnny, you probably need to add more of T2 and reduce your T3's... kinda thing.

I am not sure it is that straight forward as you have a number of variables. Like how much is expected to be done in a tournament and how much is done by catering verse combat.

For a balanced approach a minimum of 40 squares of each boosted factory type is enough to get a person to 1,000-1,600pts. If they need a little more catering then 60 squares T1/T2 and 40 squares T3 should do it. If a person is purely catering I have no concept of what this would take, plus squad size techs then become a major factor.

 

[DeletedUser16361]

I remember reading somewhere that through lots of community sourced data... it was determined that like chapter 3 or 4 was the best push account chapter.
I think that research included the amount of goods needed to cater tournaments at various SS.

Ok but lets get simpler... Right now assuming you're past ORCs what is the ratio? 1:1:1?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Ok but lets get simpler... Right now assuming you're past ORCs what is the ratio? 1:1:1?

IMO, yes. It has worked very well for me having 3:3:3 starting in orcs. (then 2:2:2 in ch12)
Note: Autofight 95% in tournaments, negotiate 100% on map.

Also if you look at JPS54's stockpile, it seems pretty even with his 7:7:7 build.

My stash is at 2.1m, 1.1m, 1.1m and the T1 overstock can partly be blamed on keeping a 3rd T1 for a long time after I nuked a T2&3. Also T1s are at a higher level since I unlocked the upgrade 2 months ago.

 

[Mykan]

40 square min is close to 2 factories per boost, but can vary a bit by chapter and boost. Somewhere in the 2/3 mark for guest race chapters onward.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Also if you look at JPS54's stockpile, it seems pretty even with his 7:7:7 build.

My stash is at 2.1m, 1.1m, 1.1m and the T1 overstock can partly be blamed on keeping a 3rd T1 for a while after I nuked a T2&3. Also T1s are at a higher level since I unlocked the upgrade 2 months ago.

 

[mucksterme]

Also if you look at JPS54's stockpile, it seems pretty even with his 7:7:7 build.

My stash is at 2.1m, 1.1m, 1.1m and the T1 overstock can partly be blamed on keeping a 3rd T1 for a while after I nuked a T2&3. Also T1s are at a higher level since I unlocked the upgrade 2 months ago.

I could swear I've heard this somewhere before.

 

[Ashrem]

I could swear I've heard this somewhere before.

If you're hearing forum posts, you probably need to disable text-to-speech on your rig......