How do you make game decisions and suggestions?

[Silly Bubbles]

I thought it might be interesting to share our different approaches to analysing whether something in the game is worth the effort or not. What tools do you use to make your decisions and suggestions?

I like to use cost-benefit analysis using only information from the actual game trying to ignore all opinions and make sure that I include everything. I also keep reminding myself to include all (not just the obvious ones) costs and benefits. It's also never only one or the other, there's always cost and benefit. And I try to look at things from others' point of view as well (other players and developers). What I like about this analysis is that it can be applied to nearly all decisions relating to the game made by me, other players or developers.


Info from Wikipedia:

Cost–benefit analysis (CBA) is a systematic approach to estimating the strengths and weaknesses of alternatives. It is used to determine options which provide the best approach to achieving benefits while preserving savings in, for example, transactions, activities, and functional business requirements. A CBA may be used to compare completed or potential courses of action, and to estimate or evaluate the value against the cost of a decision, project, or policy. It is commonly used to evaluate business or policy decisions (particularly public policy), commercial transactions, and project investments.


CBA has two main applications:

To determine if an investment (or decision) is sound, ascertaining if – and by how much – its benefits outweigh its costs.

To provide a basis for comparing investments (or decisions), comparing the total expected cost of each option with its total expected benefits.


CBA is related to cost-effectiveness analysis. Other related techniques include cost–utility analysis, risk–benefit analysis, economic impact analysis, fiscal impact analysis, and social return on investment (SROI) analysis.

Cost–benefit analysis is often used by organizations to appraise the desirability of a given policy. It is an analysis of the expected balance of benefits and costs, including an account of any alternatives and the status quo. CBA helps predict whether the benefits of a policy outweigh its costs (and by how much), relative to other alternatives. This allows the ranking of alternative policies in terms of a cost–benefit ratio. Generally, accurate cost–benefit analysis identifies choices which increase welfare from a utilitarian perspective.

 

[iamthouth]

I think my goals have evolved over time as I achieve them, but what has stayed constant for a long time is assessing all buildings based on a per tile per hour comparison. Space is the biggest limitation in the game so I always use that as a metric for my buildings. The second one, related to space, is minimising roads. Roads are the least efficient tile in the game, so it makes sense to minimise their use. I'm yet to come across a map where I couldn't improve their layout efficiency by optimising roads. Aesthetics is not a factor for me.

 

[Meadowlark]

I use a cost-utility analysis including various input costs including my time, with the utility that I have a goal of maximizing me being how much fun I'm having.

 

[Lelanya]

I just give her. Try it out in one of my dozen cities , if I like it, place it in all cities of the same level.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

I think my goals have evolved over time as I achieve them, but what has stayed constant for a long time is assessing all buildings based on a per tile per hour comparison. Space is the biggest limitation in the game so I always use that as a metric for my buildings. The second one, related to space, is minimising roads. Roads are the least efficient tile in the game, so it makes sense to minimise their use. I'm yet to come across a map where I couldn't improve their layout efficiency by optimising roads. Aesthetics is not a factor for me.

This is what I use for buildings that I already have to choose the ones that are worth placing or upgrading. When I'm considering getting a building, I also take into account the effort needed, the cost of getting it and the cost of upgrading it.

I use a cost-utility analysis including various input costs including my time, with the utility that I have a goal of maximizing me being how much fun I'm having.

Yep, I definitely stop when I'm over it, it's a game, it suppose to be fun, no prize is worth getting upset over. Lately, tournaments don't seem to be worth the clicking as much as they used to because of the changes to the AWs. I have more KPs that I need. I also hit my limit with events too, I stop midway just because it's not worth the time when I already get what I want or it's too much.

 

[TimeMachine]

Just as a simple example for a "felt" CBA. I've red quotes like this very often during about the last 4 - 6 events.

Spoiler

I do not really want to calculate that much in game, but of course @iamthouth is very right to compare buildings based on a per tile per hour comparison.

At latest and especially when Mana is researched this becomes more important.

Most casual players don't do that.
I guess meanwhile it were about several hundrets of humans and elves who had to "suffer" under my explanations.

Most of them didn't seem to be very interested in it but those who were steadily trying to go ahead in the research tree and in the game, were very thankful or even were already doing their comparisions exactly like this.

As far as events are concerned I always say to myself: "You're going to skip this one to regenerate!"
But a few days later I usually find myself with at least 4 cities to trying to solve all event quests in order to be able to place at least one new building and always keeping an eye on the leagues.

I like to keep up as much diversity in my cities as possible, even if there are no further benefits but me looking at it and thinking: "Ahh, now it is looking better."
Plus I simply like the feeling of chasing a goal. So to, me regarding at the "fun factor", it seems to be always worth taking part in events - no matter what the revenue would be. I simply play to be playing so it is not that difficult to satisfy me.

I guess for the majority of humans and elves, (I can of course only speak about those 225 fellows I am constantly playing with plus a few others whom I have contact with) it does not really feel like this.
For them the costs of finishing an event, like presence time and "planning stress" (just to name those two only) are way too high, especially when they are finishing with an event building only on Stage 8.

This way they feel like their game isn't really relaxing at all. So it seems to me that more and more humans and elves are skipping events in order to keep their relaxed playstyle alive somehow and I can understand that very well.

From this perspective the cost is missing every single event reward but the benefit is being able to have a relaxed, self-determined gameplay.

I am just mentioning this because I I caught myself using large amounts of time boosters in tournament the last few weeks, in order to be able to not login one or even two days without missing too much tournament provinces.

Very interesting case of "felt" CBA but pretty comparable to what the fellows make to skip some events, I guess!

Of course my cityies are getting poorer fast by this kind of playstile with less collecting, but this way I am "paying" with the poorness of my cities to achieve that benefit of having a little Elvenar spare time without missing too much tournament.

Wasting resources in game to be able to play less? Is that maybe the real definition of pay-to-play-faster?
Sounds crazy? Yeah, to me too!

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Just as a simple example for a "felt" CBA. I've red quotes like this very often during about the last 4 - 6 events.

Spoiler

View attachment 17186

I do not really want to calculate that much in game, but of course @iamthouth is very right to compare buildings based on a per tile per hour comparison.

At latest and especially when Mana is researched this becomes more important.

Most casual players don't do that.
I guess meanwhile it were about several hundrets of humans and elves who had to "suffer" under my explanations.

Most of them didn't seem to be very interested in it but those who were steadily trying to go ahead in the research tree and in the game, were very thankful or even were already doing their comparisions exactly like this.

As far as events are concerned I always say to myself: "You're going to skip this one to regenerate!"
But a few days later I usually find myself with at least 4 cities to trying to solve all event quests in order to be able to place at least one new building and always keeping an eye on the leagues.

I like to keep up as much diversity in my cities as possible, even if there are no further benefits but me looking at it and thinking: "Ahh, now it is looking better."
Plus I simply like the feeling of chasing a goal. So to, me regarding at the "fun factor", it seems to be always worth taking part in events - no matter what the revenue would be. I simply play to be playing so it is not that difficult to satisfy me.

I guess for the majority of humans and elves, (I can of course only speak about those 225 fellows I am constantly playing with plus a few others whom I have contact with) it does not really feel like this.
For them the costs of finishing an event, like presence time and "planning stress" (just to name those two only) are way too high, especially when they are finishing with an event building only on Stage 8.

This way they feel like their game isn't really relaxing at all. So it seems to me that more and more humans and elves are skipping events in order to keep their relaxed playstyle alive somehow and I can understand that very well.

From this perspective the cost is missing every single event reward but the benefit is being able to have a relaxed, self-determined gameplay.

I am just mentioning this because I I caught myself using large amounts of time boosters in tournament the last few weeks, in order to be able to not login one or even two days without missing too much tournament provinces.

Very interesting case of "felt" CBA but pretty comparable to what the fellows make to skip some events, I guess!

Of course my cityies are getting poorer fast by this kind of playstile with less collecting, but this way I am "paying" with the poorness of my cities to achieve that benefit of having a little Elvenar spare time without missing too much tournament.

Wasting resources in game to be able to play less? Is that maybe the real definition of pay-to-play-faster?
Sounds crazy? Yeah, to me too!

Yeah, I know the feeling of pressure that we can put on ourselves by making too big goals. I usually try to revaluate my goals to get the enjoyment back starting from the big picture.

Why am I playing this game?
What do I like the most about the game?
What do I enjoy doing the most?

Then I stick only to the most enjoyable parts and ignore the rest.

For example, I love building my city and I can't wait to unlock new upgrades and new settlements. That's why I love progressing fast to keep building new things. This is my main focus and I do make goals. The rest I do as I feel, I don't make any goals at all. When I feel like doing the quests, Spire or tourney, I do them, when I don't feel like it, I don't do them. Then I see how far I get and it's usually not too bad, most of the time better than I thought to my pleasant surprise. I only managed to get one fully evolved main prize in last 6 months but it didn't matter, it didn't slow me down, there's always other buildings to get. The events are often enough to get what I need and it's possible to get some dailies doing only fraction of the quests. I usually just pick a daily prize, hope for the best and I'm prepared for the worst. The dailies are enough for me.

 

[TimeMachine]

For example, I love building my city

Me 2! After having sold some little workshops I only had for season and or event quests and not concentrating on event any more in my city on US it suddenly felt as if quietness, peace, progress and fun came back into the game.

I took the time it takes to switch the city grid a little, managed to upgrade my first Silk Manufactory up to Stage 16, started upgrading another residence and although I just placed the only two parts of the Golden Hive I have, (they'll give me some of the Scrolls i need to upgrade silk manufactories) I've still got enough space to upgrade 2 more.
Without a change of plans this wouldn't have been possible.

I must admit that skipping events can lead to play the original game again! Especially when a city still has the potential to grow and upgrades to do!
I like puzzleing very much and as i said to encourage some of my beta-fellows to rearrange their cities long time ago:

"Puzzleing is the strongest weapon of Elvenar!"

 

[ajqtrz]

My overall strategy for playing is to play everything. Spire, Tournament, Crafting and all of it, as much as I can. This means I put TIME into the game, and to insure I don't spend too much time I've limited myself to 3 cities, 2 of which are primary, the third being just a fun thing (I'm catering everything and doing no real fighting except where required). I find the "everything" approach really does help as each aspect of the game impacts the other aspects. So I have a lot of AW's, evolving buildings and so on.

Another strategic choice I have made is to produce only one mfr good. Steel in this case. I have, currently 11 fully developed steel mfrs. I bring out 4 more for the FA's and that really helps with that. The steel I produce is huge, especially in the FA's when I apply EE spells, and I then trade it for whatever I need. I generally have, in my largest city, 10 million of everything. Sentient goods work the same way as I use my large moonstone library to produce sentient goods that I, again, trade. Ditto with my ascended goods.

My strategy for moving ahead to take the chapters slow. I stop between each and upgrade everything to it's max. At that time I also look at the next chapter, find out what resource it needs the most, and restructure my city to build a large surplus of that resource. The last chapter needs a LOT of mana, so I built a 40 sawmill mana farm and amassed 108 million mana. I'm about 1/3 through and have reduced that farm to 32 and, as a result my mana is down to 80 million. I calculate that, at this rate of drop, I'll still have plenty of mana at the end.

I do think, though, the most successful approach to the game is to play it fully and consistently. Too much is lost each night if you don't show up, and over time that could be very discouraging.

Just some thoughts about how I play.

AJ

 

[TimeMachine]

My overall strategy for playing is to play everything. Spire, Tournament, Crafting and all of it, as much as I can. This means I put TIME into the game

Me too, some people say this is where I got my name from.

I don't spend too much time I've limited myself to 3 cities

I do think, though, the most successful approach to the game is to play it fully and consistently. Too much is lost each night if you don't show up, and over time that could be very discouraging.

I would like to underline these two quotes with a big fat marker. Don't do too much cities like I do!

Too much cities can ruin all the fun and cozyness this game naturally provides!

Having a limited number of cities makes it easier to keep up daily and to avoid too much repetitive experiences in for example events.

 

[ajqtrz]

Me too, some people say this is where I got my name from.



I would like to underline these two quotes with a big fat marker. Don't do too much cities like I do!

Too much cities can ruin all the fun and cozyness this game naturally provides!

Having a limited number of cities makes it easier to keep up daily and to avoid too much repetitive experiences in for example events.

AND helps you remember which city you are on so you don't do in one city what you were planning in another.

 

[actualfantasy]

After what I have seen and what I have read, it seems like there are of course a variety of reasons. I have found for me that I play with an outlook of I want this game to be fun. If not it would become a job for me and I don't need another one. :}
Seriously if someone gets too technical I become disinterested. Yes, I could understand and I sometimes do but that takes away from what I seek in any game.
Of course you can see the flaw in that way in how a person would progress. Answer, maybe slower than others but I am not in a hurry.
However, i find that makes me feel good with this game. I am not aways delighted about some of the changes but it is up to me if i choose to tell myself that's ok or maybe not seek out a part that involves changes that I really don't care to confront. Esp right now the Spire. I don't get down on myself about how far I go etc.
This decision of how I play now can about through the years of trying to do it differently. I was in a hurry to go nowhere. and as a result I became very frustrated with the game. I still may get that way but now it is different the way I go about it.
Hope I didn't confuse anyone. :}

 

[ajqtrz]

@actualfantasy

The interesting thing is, there are some players who find all that statistical analysis fun! And some who find all the "pretty" buildings fun. And some of us who find endlessly re-arranging our cities fun. And some find leading a fellowship fun. And so on and so on. The thing is, the complexity of the game lends itself to many, many types of fun. Personally, I find all the calculations a bit tedious but still appreciate those who have the knowledge, time, and interest to do the calculations for us.

And as you imply, we change as we age and what may have been fun 5 years ago has been replaced by something else now. And that too, may be fun.

AJ

 

[actualfantasy]

Very well said AJ!
You just described a lot of how I feel! Sometimes hard to put into words.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

There's definitely a large variety of things that we can enjoy or a combination of all of them. I think it still helps to look at things before we invest ourselves into something and realise that we're not getting what we wanted or not happy when we get it. It is not just about numbers, all it needs is to look at both pros (benefit) and cons (cost). Ignoring one or the other might spoil good things or we might miss out on something. A lot of things can't be put into numbers while they still exist and need to be considered like emotions, aesthetics, effort, time, entertainment etc. For example Spire nerf made us loose out on diamonds while it helps make the game more money so they can create even more entertainment. Or we want to do every event while it doesn't make us feel good, we actually lose entertainment not gain. We might be better off not doing them all or just partly. Anyways, good analysis can stop all mistakes and disappointments from happening. It is about getting what we want AND feeling good about it.