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How is having 4 Phoenixes possible?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SoggyShorts, May 12, 2019.

  1. Deborah M

    Deborah M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    IF, and that is a big IF at this point, I was still interested in staying on the first page of rankings I would be really angry about this move. What was accomplished by having duplicates of the phoenixes available and keeping it a secret was for those few at the very top with multiple FS of push accounts to run all of their AW to level 30 are now also able to guarantee they get the 1000 ranking points every week from the tournament. Now only a select few can even begin to compete for those top tournament spots. It's just one more thing to add to the list of things that are making ranking meaningless even to a bunch of top players. Although some on the forum don't acknowledge any value in ranking, I can guarantee that ranking is a major driving force toward spending $$. Once again, I think Elvenar shot themselves in the foot.
     
  2. Black watch

    Black watch Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2019
    I'm just getting caught up on this very interesting line of information but thought I wanted to chime in on this.
    I've been a heavy fighter since I started in 2017. I'm now just starting S&D and my tourney average is 2,795. No that might be peanuts for some folks, but I'm playing without a credit card attached to this game and do what I can to compete. Tourneys are one way I do that. I just ranked 56th place in this last one and can tell you from experience, that Fire Bird has made a huge difference in my fighting. It makes it easier to expand the first round deeper, easily pick up the second to harvest the KP and then go deep into the tourney. I'm hitting 5 stars pretty easily now when before I stuggled. I'm playing as human and everyone knows what challenges we have with that stupid Mortar that can't shoot straight or find his a$$ with both hands. It's made him at least sort of effective and takes the strain off the other fighters.
    Lest you think I've got a seriously high boosted Sanctuary, I placed it late and have it at only level 4.
    This Fire Bird has put my fighting on the map... Thank you very much INNO for that.
    For the rest, yeah... It's INNO LAND.
     
  3. Dhurrin

    Dhurrin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Hmmmmm...I guess I'll have to keep trying. I normally do about 2500 points since I don't have much time. But even with the phoenix being fed my losses were not that much less than last time (meaning 9 weeks ago, last time same province) and that is kinda strange since the birdie is supposed to have my troops do more damage. I may have to take a deeper look and see if the squadsizes have gone up a lot, that might explain part of it
     
    osideglen likes this.
  4. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Do you have a high level dragon Abbey?
    The Phoenix boost is on your base so you might not feel it as much... or did you use any MMM or UUU this time/last time?
    Also between you and @Black watch if one is using the super awesome priests and the other is not there may be some difference too.
    Or maybe the3 mandatory SS in constructs
    That's all the variables I can think of ATM
     
    Socrates28 and osideglen like this.
  5. OverCire

    OverCire Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2019
    We have our answer. more chickens were available if you knew the secret handshake after breaking out your credit card.

    I think that this is a load of bs. I don't think that inno swooping into cities and deleting the non unique phoenix would be fair, but I am curious if any one can think of a decent solution.

    the uninstall button looks tempting, but I would hear a few more thoughts before pulling the drain.
     
  6. Enevhar Aldarion

    Enevhar Aldarion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    I see some talk of how much effect the extra damage is or is not giving people, and I was thinking about something in regard to that. Extra damage means squat if your units do not get in the first attack. The Fire Phoenix should have much less effect in the tournaments where we have to rely heavily on melee troops. And even in battles where we use ranged troops, if an auto-battle still goes poorly, there is a good chance the terrain got in the way. On this note, I think I need to watch for the mage boosting building in the crafting rotation, as I remember one planks tournament, I put one out by mistake, so I used some mages and they were winning fights they had no right to win. I want to see, between one of those buildings, the Fire Phoenix, and my Dragon Abbey, just how far my mages will take me against all the enemy troops.
     
  7. RandomNo.

    RandomNo. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Lol this is exactly right and what I have been saying

    Melee troops ALWAYS have to take hits, often before they even get to hit anything. That means your attack power is lowered even before you get to hit. This weakness is amplified further when it's melee vs. range (as opposed to melee vs. melee). Range always trumps melee when it comes to head on battles, which is why in RPGs the major damage dealers are always mage and archers. Attack bonuses wiil always benefit ranged units more than melee
     
  8. Dhurrin

    Dhurrin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016

    I don't see any reason for Inno to do anything about it.
    So what if someone has 6 fully evolved Phoenixes in his city? To maximize their usefulnes he has to keep on feeding them and that will become harder over time. So unless the petfood becomes something one can pretty much gain at will, he will be dependant on crafting the stuff.
     
  9. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    I think the question is whether any significant number of people would really have done anything differently if they knew it was available. Would you, honestly, have spent enough money to get 60 grand prizes if you knew that the 61st would be another of the originals? That's around 25,000 to 30,000 extra essences.
     
  10. Enevhar Aldarion

    Enevhar Aldarion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    53 grand prizes, not 60. 27 artifacts and 26 intervening buildings to max out the three birds that came with completing the 1st 3 sequential quests. Of course, the prize queue shows the next two prizes after the current one, so once someone started working on artifact #27, they would see a wishing well next and after that the big surprise of another Phoenix. So someone spending the money to max all three would know.
     
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  11. Dhurrin

    Dhurrin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    True enough, but even so. How many people would actually have changed anything in their effort to get there? Most people had enough trouble to get enough to fully evolve only one phoenix. We're talking about a tiny fraction of the players.

    I honestly don't see why people get upset over something like this, let alone would want Inno to do anything about it. Just like any of the top-ranked players in all of the worlds on all of the servers are obviously big spenders, often having ONLY magical residences and workshops and premium and event buildings and a full grit, meaning all of the premium expansions. If they want to pay to be at the top and get extra's, so what? Does them being there bother anyone? Does it hurt anyone? Or is it just a form of jealousy?

    I'm not averse to paying at times, but am not (or at least for Inno not any longer) a regular spender. Yet people should remember that companies have to have some revenue and that play-for-free games are ONLY possible because the money comes from either commercials or paid for features. Inno has no commercials (for which I'm very glad) so their revenue in elvenar comes from people paying for extra's. Without those paying players, there would not be a game at all. And since this game has no PvP element, nobody is harmed by having people heavily invest in their cities.

    Edit: that is not to say I feel the communication about it wasn't poor, but communication from the devs has been poor forever. And in this case I wonder if they even expected anyone to get that far. The devs regularly seem to be unable to see impact over longer time and underestimate the drive of some people. I wouldn't be surprised if they restarted the cycle after someone contacted support because they reached the end.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  12. Enevhar Aldarion

    Enevhar Aldarion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    Yes, for all we know, at the same time they gave us the extra 20 quests, they also added the extra phoenix to the grand prize queue. For all we know, some big spender rushed through the event, got to the 27th artifact, and maybe saw nothing but the normal prize buildings after that and complained to Inno and got them to add the birds at that point. Like others, I seriously doubt they had them planned like that before the event even started. If you read between the lines of the one official mod comment on this, that is how it sounds to me.
     
  13. tigor

    tigor Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    I hardly do battle, i started when they nerfed battle to death and learned to just buy my way around 80% of the battles so the phoenix you all talk about means nothing to my style. I did build and improve the materials one and quite frankly, came here to see if they are even worth keeping? 2 days to get 1,000 tier 1 good? I get 5k goods every 9 hours now? it does provide an extra 1k population but i am starting to see this as just another time sink. i already sold a few of them, (i work 8 maps, mostly Amuni). going back to game. I do thank those that put down some good info, i did not read this whole thread though.
     
  14. CrazyWizard

    CrazyWizard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    It's the harvest set. Winter is our T2/T3 set.
     
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  15. The Unbeliever

    The Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Not entirely true...
    In GOOD jrpg's, (ie: Dragon Quest & FF 4 & 6), while your mages & archer classes typically could hit hard, if they ever got punched in return, holy hell did they tend to go 'SPLAT'!
    (god damn, I remember it was a horrifically painful experience trying to boost friggin' Rydia beyond Lv.75 in FF4 - even @Lv.99 she's still damn squishy!:eek:)

    The problem with Elvenar's fight system is that it's more akin to a table top miniature game like Warhammer 40k... ie: 'Alpha Strikes' are grossly over powered, shooting is king, and the feeble 'horde' type units like light ranged/melee & mages are stupidly good. Meanwhile, what should be your kick*** 'elite' units in the heavy melee & ranged, who are promoted to be akin to 'walking tanks', just suck pure rank monkey poo.

    A Paladin or Tree for example is supposed to be roughly equal to 6 light infantry/ranged dudes.
    But in reality, we all know that the light dudes will cripple/win, even though they really shouldn't... Paladins are a special level of crap, as they have such a pointless & gakky bonus vs. light infantry, that one-on-one, the equal sized unit of Light Infantry will at worst murder half or more of those Pallies. (humans can't effectively deal with enemy light infantry until they can unlock the damn Ork Warrior!)
     
  16. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    why not use frogs or rad mortars? if you can kill them before they even get to you, you are king! (the +50% damage or +100% for some of us who had 2 phoenixess is the game changing part of this setup)
     
    osideglen likes this.
  17. Pheryll

    Pheryll Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    Both frogs and mortars have a low average damage. They often do not do well compared to other units of their type. Speaking of which, frogs are unlocked in the halfling chapter, 3 chapters after orc warriors are unlocked; and there is no special building yet that produces them.
     
  18. Itireae Sharic

    Itireae Sharic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    5 pages of comments...Took a while to read. Seems like another case of side A's position vs side B's position. Well worth the read tho. I find it hard to pick a side when doing so requires me to "assume" how someone outside my influence will react to a given situation. If this was like this, then that person would do this...or would they. People are creatures of habit, I know that. One of the comments in here mentioned FOE...I can remember many people having 10 and one person had as many as 18 of the events main bldg, all level 10. We would discuss it on our discord channel as It was so surreal at the time, how anyone could dump that much money into a free-to-play game, and, like this thread, we couldn't define the reason behind their action(s) any better than you folks have done. I believe if you could ask any of them, you would get a different reason for doing so from each of them. Since their actions have no direct affect on me or my game play, I don't really care that they do what they do, or why. With that being said, I did get my fire phoenix up to level 10 with the upgrade from that last mini-event. 0 diamonds spent. Carry on. :)
     
  19. Deborah M

    Deborah M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    I'm not sure and I'm not about to read 5 pages again but I think you missed the point. It wasn't about how much $ someone spent. I have no room to call the kettle black on that subject. I can say that I wouldn't have spent that much even when I was spending whenever I felt like it. The problem was that Elvenar didn't even let it be known that it was possible to get duplicate Phoenixes so it was surprising to most of us, to the point some thought it was a hack. It is still my belief that we should have known it was possible so that everybody could have decided for themselves whether or not to spend that extra $$ to get them.
     
  20. Itireae Sharic

    Itireae Sharic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Yea, the thread kinda segued into multiple thought processes @Deborah M ...I just addressed what I could remember...lol:rolleyes::D
     

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