How is this not "pushing"?

[The Unbeliever]

@SoggyShorts: You mentioned why would anyone want to put kp's into the AW of a player they haven't yet 'discovered' on the world map?

Well, I did just that for a good while on my Khelonnar city, as a way to get a 'head start' on obtaining some rune shards for certain AW's. (ie: I'm only about 3/4's of the way through the Ch.5 tech tree, but I've now collected 8x Dwarven Bulwark + 8x Mountain Halls relics as 'help' rewards)
Most of them came as my way of helping/repaying another player who routinely gives me a lot of help by picking up my trades & donating coins to my main hall... As they're located on my 7th ring, it was always going to take me a good while to 'discover' their city properly, but I wanted to give them back some form of help for all the help they've given me.

Likewise, I've invested in other players' AW's like the Crystal Lighthouse/Bellspire to build up a few of those runeshards so that by the time I unlocked them in the tech tree, I had enough already saved up so that I could get 4-5 of the runes activated right away!

I wouldn't call it 'pushing' in either direction honestly, just that I chose to slow down my own progress a bit, so I could get right into the big reward pay-off as soon as I unlock those AW's!
(and because my luck is beyond horribad, and the only relics I ever seem to get from clearing provinces/tournament rounds are stupid, useless, gakky, ToS/GA shards!! "No - bad RNG - I already have 70 GA shards, I don't need another 3 this tournament!!" )

 

[AtaguS]

Reading this thread has left me with this thought: I'm not sure there will ever be a way to level the playing field across worlds and servers to make all opportunities equally available to all players. Perhaps only within Fellowships, where they can attract and select players with similar game styles, can this be possible. Someone will always have more time to devote which equals more supplies, goods, trades, etc. Someone will always have more money to spend which means more of anything folks who don't spend have...Some players land in neighborhoods with a ton of active neighbors willing to visit and trade with you regularly, and others are left with only their Fellowship and the whistling breeze through a ghost town outside their windows.

I have a neighbor who donates kps to my AWs - and has done for ages, and I never even noticed until I hit the Dwarf chapter and started paying actual attention to my AWs. I was grateful for the help and glad they received a reward from it once I leveled up. But I never returned the favor because my fellowship has a KP swap thread and I figured that player was receiving something in return by getting a reward when my AW leveled up. In some cases, I kept that AW out of the swap thread to guarantee her the reward...So, I dunno...having multiple cities solely to funnel kps does sound like cheating, and not just a player taking advantage of an opportunity based on playing preferences. But as for the rest, I feel like eliminating unfairness can really only be achieved within one's fellowship.

 

[Pheryll]

But it was not in comparison to other issues....so, Wenvyrel is correct in saying that the correct grammar is "could not care less."

Okay, there was a comparison of the mentality of four different types of people. Granted, if the poster wanted to be clear that a comparison was being set up on the subject of caring, he would have put it as "could care less than the rest," but the main problem with the lack of clarity revolves around the word "could". Probably the best phrasing of the sentence would be "they are unable to care less."

 

[DeletedUser3696]

How about a simple baseball analogy?
Let's say they decide to allow steroids. Either you have every swing turn into a home run, or you expand the field, moving the bases further apart. If the bases are so far apart that even roid monkeys have a challenge getting around, what do you think happens to non-using players?

Personally I'd rather they just make the rules a little clearer.

This made me laugh!!! Baseball still allows steroids by having a horrible testing system where a player has to have 4x the normal level of testosterone to be considered cheating and only really stupid players get caught.

But I also love the analogy where players say pushing is fine since it doesn't affect/effect me

 

[SoggyShorts]

As they're located on my 7th ring, it was always going to take me a good while to 'discover' their city properly, but I wanted to give them back some form of help for all the help they've given me.

That's fine, I know of players that have received KP from someone they visit. It's not something for nothing. The discover rule could work on a 2 way. So even if you haven't discovered me, you can still donate to my wonder if I have discovered you.

The whole idea is to prevent major abuse. What I'm talking about (and have been since the first post) is a player having a dozen accounts that are nothing but KP farms.

Actually, you'll probably have a better trading partner with one of these towns in your trading circle than you would with someone who starts a town then abandons it like most of the towns I see. They need huge amounts of goods, supplies and coins to cater the tournaments and you'll never see one of their main halls in perpetual upgrade. Be thankful if you have one for your neighbour.

Not if they are KP farms. Sure a player could make an account that does tournaments and progresses in order to give even more KP to their main, but a true KP farm just logs in, donates KP, and logs off.
I just checked, and the player that made me start this thread is not doing anything in the tournament with his KP farms.

This might be a way to make it 'difficult' but it's going to create 60 abandoned towns outside of that 15th ring for every one that they want to keep inside the 15th ring.

Simple fix: No KP donations unless at least one of you has discovered the other. So unless you have empty spaces around you, you will not be able to make a KP farm.

Keeping outsiders from donating to your AW is fine by me but doesn't that defeat the purpose of someone not as advanced as you are gaining through donating to one who is more advanced?

How do you gain by feeding more KP to someone than you are receiving? Dumping 50-100 KP into someones wonder to get back 5 KP and a rune? That doesn't seem like a great way to advance your city....

 

[Arkadia]

@SoggyShorts - First i wanted it to ask how does it affect ur game, n why do u care, they obviously have way too much time on their hands, n i just feel sorry for them.
But then i read on, n i get ur point that if more people start doing that it will affect many others. Especially posting this possibility here, im sure it will spread even faster

But yes, those 'farm' accounts definitely wont trade, nor do NH on the map, so if u'll get a few of those in ur neighborhood, it will affect ur game. So when we asked Inno to get get rid of the dead accts, these R dead accts as well concerning the rest of the players.

All that said, I would definitely not support us being able to donate to others.
Find another way of solution

 

[AtaguS]

Not if they are KP farms. Sure a player could make an account that does tournaments and progresses in order to give even more KP to their main, but a true KP farm just logs in, donates KP, and logs off.

Yes, this. This just creates neighborless neighbors. You can get some coins and goods for visiting them, but no chance of forging an active relationship.

 

[Salator]

Okay, there was a comparison of the mentality of four different types of people. Granted, if the poster wanted to be clear that a comparison was being set up on the subject of caring, he would have put it as "could care less than the rest," but the main problem with the lack of clarity revolves around the word "could". Probably the best phrasing of the sentence would be "they are unable to care less."

No, you are wrong...there is no "comparison" of player mentality being made. There is only one player type being talked about in the sentence that uses the phrase in question...read what Gath of Baal had to say again:

I would even add 1 more type.. The one who knows about it but doesn't report it but doesn't use it either, because they could care less

There is no comparison. The type being talked about (i.e., the subject of the sentence) is referring to the fact that that player type does not care what others do in the game. In no way is there a comparison between mentality types in the use of the phrase, "could / could not care less" in the context of the sentence that the writer created. The subject of the sentence (the player type being talked about) would have to be making the comparison between mentality types...and that is not the case. The player type identified in the sentence(the subject of the sentence) is not making a comparison of mentality types.

Again, I would encourage you to contact me outside of the forum. I will gladly parse or diagram the sentence for you via Skype if you wish.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Find another way of solution

I think a simple restriction on KP donations is the easiest fix, and would eliminate most of the problem.
In order to donate KP you must meet at least one of the following criteria:

1. Discover the city you want to donate to
2. Be in a FS with the city you want to donate to
3. Be discovered by the city you want to donate to (optional)

I have yet to see any real reason given for why anyone would need to donate KP to someone they've never met. A possible 1 rune reward for being a top contributor does not justify donating 100 KP to a stranger imho.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Pheryll @Salator
Here is a great explanation

 

[Arkadia]

@SoggyShorts Awesome! like ur criterias! those would work!

 

[Pheryll]

No, you are wrong...there is no "comparison" of player mentality being made. There is only one player type being talked about in the sentence that uses the phrase in question...read what Gath of Baal had to say again:
.

Gath of Baal quoted three other types and then added a fourth type. If he had used the expression "could care less than the rest," it would have made sense in this context.

 

[Salator]

@Pheryll @Salator
Here is a great explanation

Thank you Soggy! He does a much better job of explaining it than I did....of course, he also had the use of graphics!!! LOL!

 

[Salator]

Gath of Baal quoted three other types and then added a fourth type. If he had used the expression "could care less than the rest," it would have made sense in this context.

See Soggy's video....that will explain it to you.

 

[Pheryll]

See Soggy's video....that will explain it to you.

I have already mentioned this in point two of my discussion. All the video shows is the abuse of point two. I am posting this point below so that you can see that I already understand what you and the video are saying.

For the second[,] the care they show to the desired is so little that they are physically unable to show even less care. The central difference is one looks at a comparison to other issues, while the other looks at a minimum which cannot be breached, and most contexts in which the phrase is used will have elements of both being discussed.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Pheryll
Can you please show an example sentence where "I could care less" makes sense?

 

[Pheryll]

Certainly, here is a sentence where both could care and could not care would make sense.

The Elvenar team quickly responds to diamond purchase problems, but in matters of players breaking the rules, the team could care less.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The Elvenar team quickly responds to diamond purchase problems, but in matters of players breaking the rules, the team could care less.
= They care somewhat about breaking rules, it would be possible for them to care less or more than they do.
The Elvenar team quickly responds to diamond purchase problems, but in matters of players breaking the rules, the team couldn't care less.
=They do not care about rule breaking whatsoever.

Yes, perhaps they are both grammatically correct sentences, but the first one doesn't mean anything. It doesn't give the listener/reader any information.
No one intentionally means to tell you that "I care some amount about this subject, and it is humanly possible for me to care less or more about it"

When someone says "I couldn't care less" they are saying the don't give a **** about it, and that is the context 99.9% of the time.

 

[Pheryll]

Yes, perhaps they are both grammatically correct sentences, but the first one doesn't mean anything. It doesn't give the listener/reader any information.
No one intentionally means to tell you that "I care some amount about this subject, and it is humanly possible for me to care less or more about it"

The sentence provides innuendo. It promotes a thought, without the speaker needing to be held accountable for that thought. In this case the speaker may have relied on rumors he had never investigated, and should these rumors prove false, he can always backpedal saying "I never said the Elvenar team would care less, only that it could care less.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

I would even add 1 more type.. The one who knows about it but doesn't report it but doesn't use it either, because they do not give a crap.

Here ya go, I fixed it