How much Guest Race space do you have?

[Mykan]

As the discussion on factory space allocation has sparked some interesting comments and ideas I thought it might be worth trying a discussion about guest race space allocation. This is more relevant for later era players but I am sure those approach the first guest race will be keen to here different peoples thoughts.

1. How much space do you allocate for a guest race? Either square or expansions (25 squares) should be fine
   • Please specify the space by era if appropriate
2. Estimate of time tech locked - extremely difficult I know especially if you did some of the earlier races when they were first released.
3. A tolerance for been tech locked/ putting KP into wonders. Say a scale of 1 to 10 with
   • 1 been "Death before I spend points outside of the tech bar, I will not give-in" and
   • 10 been "I just love those little fellows they can come and visit me all year if they want to"
4. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well did you plan (in your opinion) the space, strategy, approach to meet your tolerance level.
   • 1 been "She''ll be right mate, I'll just wing it" (sorry for the colloquialisms) and
   • 10 been you have a PhD in the guest race and could present your thesis on the matter if asked (which we are not ).
5. Anything else of relevance you feel will help

The discussion is not looking for how many of X mine or Y farm you built. I am sure this will come up as it helps to determine the space needed but is not intended to be the focal point of the discussion. I haven't yet analysed my own towns but I am curious how much the space allocation varies for the guest races if at all.

Again there is no right or wrong answer this is an exploration of different strategies and approaches.

Quick Summary of responses (checked to post 45)
Dwarf

• 5 expansions - 2 people
• 6 expansions - 1 person
• 7 expansions - 2 people
• 8 expansions - 3 people
• 10 expansions - 1 person
• 13 expansions - 1 person

Fairy

• 7 expansions - 1 person (roughly 4 day/3 night)
• 8 expansions - 3 people (roughly 5 day/4 night)

Orc

• 6 expansions - 1 person
• 9 expansions - 1 person (roughly 20 farm/3 rally)
• 10 expansions - 1 person
• 13 expansions - 1 person
• 18 expansions - 2 people

Wood Elves

• 6 expansions - 1 person (roughly 3 of each specialty building)
• 9 expansions - 1 person

Sorcerers and Dragons

• 12 expansions - 1 person - 3 of each faculty
• 16 Expansions - 4 people Full size university, 372 squares.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Dwarf
1. 170 squares (7 expansions)including tracks and buildings
2. 4 days stuck on the last tech Partly due to the "gain a bajillion relics" quests from snow event, which was balanced with going back for "new" techs.
3. 3/10 Pretty low tolerance for being tech locked, for fear of not getting to next chapter for better event rewards
4. 8/10 In hindsight using 18 more squares would have saved me 3 days
5. I felt like I had a very specific plan going in, but adding techs behind me, and wanting to rush the event a bit undid some of my planning. In the end I was very pleased though.
I only had the minimum # of provinces cleared to get into and then out of chapter 6.

 

[Mykan]

Orc era
1. 209 squares (8 expansions) plus roads. Lets say 20 roads or 1 more expansions for 229 squares or just over 9 expansions. My town currently in orcs has a different (smaller) configuration.
2. Yep definately. Started chapter when the update was released and finished when Wood elves came out.
3. Would be a 3-4
4. Strategy 4-5, had more consideration on approach for this race.
5. Was not rushing through the chapter, even focused my KP into a fellowship wonder program initially. Had I done this after I had the race resources it would have sped things up a little. Was pretty happy with the timing of finishing the era in time for the next.

Summary so far
Dwarves - 183 squares (just over 7 expansions)
Fairies - 167 square (7 expansions)
Orcs - 229 squares (just over 9 expansions)
Too early to tell for wood elves currently and the event is chewing up some of the space I would use for them.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

I can't remember that far back to fairies and dwarves, but..

Orcs
At my max I had 7 rallys and 40ish farms and I think my total was near 18 expansions.

I started off really slow not realizing how slow it was to slog thru. I only upgraded like 12 of my farms and used those primarily for the shrooms of wisdom. I also didn't upgrade any rally points.
Mid chapter I realized I was tech locked severely and dumping points in wonders. That's when I sold off a ton of culture to open up space and speed the chapter up. Once I was at full capacity I kept pace of creating loot and SoW as the tech was needing it to advance.

Woodelves
I'm just starting to get the grafting sites, but I'm at 3 expansions not including my 10 willows (I don't include these since they don't need race specific roads and actually are useful outside of the chapter).
I'm going to imagine that I'll need 2 of each grafting building, 3 fabricators and my forest glade + roads. This should be reachable in 6 expansion or 150 squares.

I plan again to rid myself of extra culture to make way for race specific buildings and while it's fairly early, I can tell I'll be tech locked since I'll have about 6 techs sitting and waiting for the grafting site race materials.

 

[Mykan]

At my max I had 7 rallys and 40ish farms and I think my total was near 18 expansions.

At the risk of going off topic I assume you had to do some "clearing" for that much space or did you manage to organise it that way?

Woodelves....not including my 10 willows (I don't include these since they don't need race specific roads and actually are useful outside of the chapter).

I wasn't planning on counting willows or other culture buildings so I think "buildings that require race specific roads" is a good rule for this race (and to a small degree orcs and their armouries)

 

[DeletedUser3139]

1. I'm in Woodelves but I still have the Orc farms/rally points. I think its about 12-13 expansions worth of space (30 farms + 3 rally points, portal and roading in a slightly awkward configuration - I did that bit myself!). I had a bit available.
2. I've been tech locked for weeks at a time probably not as long as a month at a time though.
3. Probably about a 9 - very high tolerance for being tech locked - thank goodness for a good wonder pool in fellowship!
4. I guess I'm a 1... my husband tells me his strategy (he's good on that stuff!) and I do that haha or just get him to rearrange my town for me (personal town planner!)

 

[DeletedUser4778]

Just started my first guest race a couple of weeks ago but very interested in this thread for obvious reasons. Btw, before I forget, I learned the hard way that portal tracks do not count as roads for non-guest-race buildings which resulted in a mad scramble as I had to adjust city plans and later expansions.

How much space do you allocate for a guest race? Either square or expansions (25 squares) should be fine:

Current Dwarven Setup:
108 squares = 12 mines and 6 foundries
20 squares = Portal Tracks
9 squares = Lv2 Dwarven Portal
137 squares = TOTAL

Future Dwarven Plans (3 expansions from now):
138 squares = 15 mines and 8 foundries
28 squares = Portal Tracks
25 squares = Lv4 Dwarven Portal
191 squares = TOTAL

I've planned my Fairy setup as well but will probably need to adjust that. The working plan is to start with 4 day farms and 2 night farms and I plan to add 2 more night farms down the road and possibly another day farm.

I've been horribly delayed by back research and even more by the Flurry quest.

Estimated Time of Being Tech Locked:
I had an estimate but it's been thrown out the window because I had to do back research just as I was about to complete granite research and the flurry event with all the buying of KP and faster acquisition of provinces to gain relics than I had originally planned (I normally conquer provinces later in a chapter after completing more military upgrades although I will probably modify or completely change my approach due to guest race requirements). I haven't been tech locked yet but I am very close to it. I no longer have an estimate but would like to have one again but tourney and flurry are taking up my time plus some spreadsheets I'm doing for my FS. Also have to do calculations for current economic system now that my quests are finally in Dwarves as well as any way that I can produce enough granite and copper before Flurry ends. I also haven't spent any KP on my own AW although I've given a few (no more than 20) to my previous FS in thanks for their help.

Tech Lock Tolerance Scale:
5/10. It should be low because I'm not focused on AWs at all (although I will probably turn into a fiend once I unlock the Mountain Halls) but it's okay because I do plan to repay everyone who put KPs in my Abyss. I also expected to be tech locked because I wasn't willing to compromise on marble production due to the back-to-back tourneys on my boosted goods of marble and gems which I know I will need a ton of Tier 1 goods for.

Preparation Scale:
7/10. Thought I'd planned pretty well and had different variations of city plans to account for things that might come up or to meet varying needs but completely failed to account for the fact that portal tracks don't count as roads and severely underestimated Flurry demands.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

My Arendyll town: Dwarves

Edit: I just ran my production numbers on this city. I've already unlocked Dwarven Steel, so I need to unlock planks and marble before getting the copper tech. I will have exactly 32681 granite in my inventory when I unlock marble. My portal holds 33000 granite, so I may have too many mines. After I unlock Marble, I will have 22481 granite left. Then if I just use hourly KP, I would build up an additional 26884 granite which would be over storage capacity for my portal. I still have around 30 fightable provinces left in this chapter, plus a tournament coming up. So I don't think I'll get techlocked by granite, but I am scrambling to get KP before I reach my granite capacity.

1. How much space do you allocate for a guest race? Currently using 5 expansions. But I have 4 more expansions free to use for copper.
   
2. Estimate of time tech locked. Not yet. But I did not do any optional techs in the previous chapter. Once I got my granite up and running, I have been accumulating and upgrading my guest race stuff while I filled in all optional techs of previous chapters. I will report back if I ever do get techlocked.
   
3. A tolerance for been tech locked/ putting KP into wonders. I have not invested a single KP into any of my wonders. My focus has always been on the tech tree. However if I do get techlocked, I will donate in our endless donation chain.
   
4. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well did you plan (in your opinion) the space, strategy, approach to meet your tolerance level. For this town, I would say a 10. I have allocated guest race space a few chapters ago and have never touched the expansions. I know what I will be producing when I get everything up and running and should breeze right through this chapter. I have also allocated other squares for what I am calling "guest race supporting buildings" Since my actual city will remain mostly the same, I have additional spaces outside my city limits for additional population/culture and for this chapter - workshops. Next chapter, that same space will be used for additional tier 3.
   Trying to keep my ranking points as low as possible here and I expect to finish Fairies with less than 25,000 points. I am at 21,000 points now and I do not have a need for additional buildings.

 

[DeletedUser2963]

Dwarves 8 expansions, 14 spaces not in use or reserved for use so 186 spaces total.
Zero time tech locked
Zero tolerance for being tech locked
I do not personally have a PHD but several forum junkies do, and they shared, I read everything and planned accordingly.
They keep releasing new tech back in the tree, going back and filling those may have prevented tech lock thus far.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

At the risk of going off topic I assume you had to do some "clearing" for that much space or did you manage to organise it that way?



I wasn't planning on counting willows or other culture buildings so I think "buildings that require race specific roads" is a good rule for this race (and to a small degree orcs and their armouries)

I had to go into the negative for culture by quite a bit and essentially I stopped building for about 3 weeks. I felt it was worth it since I predicted it would have taken about 6-8 weeks otherwise. By saving 3-5 weeks of time I easily built my culture buildings back and then some.

I never even considered counting armouries for the orc era, but a valid point

 

[Mykan]

Moved from OP so I could add the summary of responses and not be so cluttered.

Fairy era
1. In actual space it would have been 147 squares (6 expansions) plus roads. Lets say 20 roads or 1 more expansions for 167 squares or 7 expansions. I don't have a current town in Fairy era but I do know exactly what buildings I used, the configuration was the variable.

2. Minimal, I don't recall but it felt like a fast race. Pretty sure there were some new techs introduced in prior eras that would have diverted me.

3. On my main towns tolerance would be a 3-4

4. Strategy, 3-4. Hard to say as I plan in my head mostly and go by feel as I work through each race.

Dwarf era
1. In actual space it would have been 163 squares (7 expansions) plus roads. Lets say 20 roads or 1 more expansions for 183 squares or just over 7 expansions. I don't have a current town in Dwarf era but I do know exactly what buildings I used, the configuration was the variable.

2. Not at all (first town), minimal for others but was less concerned with them.

3. On my main towns tolerance would be a 3-4

4. Strategy, 3-4. Hard to say as I plan in my head mostly and go by feel as I work through each race.

5. I did dwarves sometime ago, there was the odd "new" tech so that may account for not being tech locked the first time I did this. I did not level copper farms beyond level 2 and only a few went to level 2 so I used more land for more mines to compensate.

Interestingly that makes for slightly smaller space in fairies then dwarves for me which sounds right.

 

[DeletedUser2191]

The discussion is not looking for how many of X mine or Y farm you built. I am sure this will come up as it helps to determine the space needed but is not intended to be the focal point of the discussion. I haven't yet analysed my own towns but I am curious how much the space allocation varies for the guest races if at all.
.

Actually the amount of mines, farms or whatever visiting races call their race specific buildings can be critical. Since you are asking an estimation of tech lock time and tech lock tolerance, how many of each determines if a player is tech locked or not. 8 granite, 4 copper, portal and 17 portal tracks.

Now to the questions ...

Only reporting on main city in Felyndral, early chapter 7, currently no guest race elements built.

Past Guest Race of Dwarves, used 131 squares (just over 5 expansions), did get tech locked waiting on granite 2 or 3 times, could of used another 12 - 18 squares for granite mines. All guest race buildings were level 4.

Estimating a combined week to week and a half of being tech locked spread out. High tolerance, shared gained KP's on tech not needing race goods, my lone AW or amongst our FS KP donation list.

Plans for dwarf race, I would say 8 or 9/ 10. Probably could of used more granite mines which would of prevented being tech locked. Space needed for this was not an issue.

Chapter 7, Fairies Guest Race

- haven't crunched out numbers yet on squares that will be used

- once the winter event is done, I will have 9 - 11 expansions worth of space that can be built on

 

[DeletedUser43]

Practically everything Tsmack said about the orcs mirrors what I did. I deleted all my culture and I deleted 1/3 of my houses to make room for the horrible orc stuff. I was negative culture and population for a long time. It still took me months and months to get through it. I didn't count the expansions, but 18 sounds close. I had 7 rally points and 86 farms at one point, but not all together. You need more farms in the beginning of the chapter and you need more rally points in the end.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

Practically everything Tsmack said about the orcs mirrors what I did. I deleted all my culture and I deleted 1/3 of my houses to make room for the horrible orc stuff. I was negative culture and population for a long time. It still took me months and months to get through it. I didn't count the expansions, but 18 sounds close. I had 7 rally points and 86 farms at one point, but not all together. You need more farms in the beginning of the chapter and you need more rally points in the end.

Yup, but I actually enjoyed this chapter for the spacial challenge it provided.
Everyone can do it they way they want, but I liked figuring it out. All the previous chapters were easy compared to this one.

The challenge in chapter 9 is a little more complex, but I'm probably going to ditch my 3 ponds to go down to 100 -125% culture bonus max. I have yet to figure out how many of each building to get, but I'm currently thinking 4 fabrications and 2 of each grafting building to start (hoping that is enough). I'm also thinking 10 willows is enough once I get the last grafting tech complete and those willows will keep my going from then on. If not, then I'll have to cater another province on top of the last chapter expansion I'll get.

 

[Arkadia]

Orcs
I had 3 RPs n I believe 22 farms, so however much space it took up
I was tech-locked for a little while, but when i got my 3rd RP n all farms at lvl4, planned out my production, things went like a charm.


Wood Elves
After I was done w Orcs i sold all orcs bldgs, totally reorganized my city looking at the upgrade requirements in Woodelves. That freed up some space.

So far I have used up 7 expansions, may need 2-3 more (not including Willows)

I didn't plan much, just play n build as i go
Waiting on Mana to unlock Plank Grafting for about 16 hrs, might be a total of 24 hrs. So i'm putting KPs into other stuff in the research tree.

...I'm currently thinking 4 fabrications and 2 of each grafting building to start (hoping that is enough). I'm also thinking 10 willows is enough ...

I started with 6 Willows, then added 2, now have 10 and still waiting for mana to get my Plank grafting unlocked. I had 260k+ mana before I could start building the Forest Glade. But I have to add I upgraded my Main Hall 1 level, which is a Mana pit.
I also currently have 4 Forest fabrication n thinking to add 1-2 more....we'll see, but Mana tears are coming in slow...

 

[DeletedUser3696]

Orcs

I started with 6 Willows, then added 2, now have 10 and still waiting for mana to get my Plank grafting unlocked. I had 260k+ mana before I could start building the Forest Glade. But I have to add I upgraded my Main Hall 1 level, which is a Mana pit.
I also currently have 4 Forest fabrication n thinking to add 1-2 more....we'll see, but Mana tears are coming in slow...

That's good to know.

I also thought early on I'd upgrade my main hall almost right away and then bam, everything was wanting the mana. Looks like main hall will have to wait til I get tech/mana locked (if that happens).

And I might just have to re-evaluate my 4/2/2/2 with 10 willows set-up.
Perhaps a 6/2/2/2 + 12 is better (but that's basically 4 extra expansions).

The side benefit maybe getting rid of the hallowe'en culutral buildings since I'm not a fan of their look

 

[Arkadia]

I'm waiting for to finish up the quests in the Snow Flurry, which will free up some more space after I delete all those lil shacks lol
And I still have 5 Ponds I could convert to Willows.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of those Halloween bldgs either, but i like the 2900 pop the Scream gives

 

[Mykan]

Actually the amount of mines, farms or whatever visiting races call their race specific buildings can be critical. Since you are asking an estimation of tech lock time and tech lock tolerance, how many of each determines if a player is tech locked or not. 8 granite, 4 copper, portal and 17 portal tracks.

The number and even the level do come into play which I did note would come up. The intention is to keep the focus on the space allocation which some of these variables can impact. I know people often seek advice for specific guest races which a thread specific to that race might be more beneficial for a more detailed discussion.

Everyone has been great on their responses. I will try to update the summary at the top and see if any patterns in approach appear.

 

[DeletedUser3686]

@Draconomicon

Thank you for posting as much as you did on the Dwarven chapter. I just entered it and have been trying to clear as much space as possible in preparation for building the mines and foundries. Your post has really helped me get an idea of how much space will be necessary.

 

[DeletedUser4778]

You're very welcome, @LadySansaStark. Glad to know my post helped. I now have a Lv3 portal, 15 mines, and 7 copper foundries for a total of 176 squares including portal tracks although I got only one additional expansion (sold and rearranged some stuff to make space) since my last post. It's a long shot but I'd like to hit fairies if I can before Flurry is over. I may even sell all my non-event culture buildings to add more mines and foundries because I don't need culture or pop for guest race resource buildings. You've probably already figured this out but, just in case you haven't, upgrading the residences really helps. You can gain 1-2 expansions from doing so. My plans were upset by all the buying of the KP and the granite and copper I had been saving for portal upgrade had to go to research or risk getting tech locked earlier than planned. I compensated for it by getting city expansions with all the KPs I got which I filled with a a couple of mines and foundries. Also, I have/had 2-10 Lv1 workshops and lots of low-level factories which I keep selling and rebuilding to meet a Flurry quest. Selling and rebuilding them to redesign your city for better space maximization is great since they take very little time and resources to rebuild. I actually didn't need to sell armories like I thought I would. I think (and hope) it will be easier for you than it was for me because I had to deal with two boosted goods tourneys plus the flurry quest plus upgrading residences plus building mines and foundries plus upgrading marble factories (to meet tourney demands) all at the same time. I almost went into option paralysis. I know for sure I will get tech locked because of all the KPs I had to buy, the KPs from tourneys, and the KPs I got from clearing provinces to get expansions. I am now fighting like crazy to clear enough provinces for another expansion (and fulfill the 50 relics quest) so I can upgrade my portal to the max level without having to sell anything and to prevent an imminent tech lock.

UPDATE: Ran some figures and I will need at least twice the number of mines and foundries I have now. Even selling all my culture and armories will not be enough. Not willing to sell residences and factories so dwarf flurry culture bonus it is for me.

NOTE TO @Mykan: I've recently been wondering about the space ratio, in this case the city space to guest space ratio especially for players who have "overscouted" and thus have more room in their cities. (I've also been thinking about the advantages and disadvantages of having "overscouted" vs. staying within the GZ.) Perhaps it would be useful to ask how many city squares each respondent has as well? I believe this will also definitely affect the amount of space dedicated to factories...well, everything really.