• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

How often do you release players from your fellowship?

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
The other idea would be a sabbatical for me where I leave my fellowship to join a more active fellowship for awhile so that I can try that play style out.

If you're serious about that, we currently have an opening

We are gold Spire
10 + tourny with periodic 19 chests push weeks. ( We just did one last week and got 19 on friday without using perks)
And we always do well in FA

So we might be more what you are looking for.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
It sounds like you should change course because in your heart, you've already made up your mind. If you're longing for rewards enough to want to take a sabbatical to join another FS, then you're not a right fit for your own FS. :) Honestly, after you've tasted more rewards with a more competitive FS, do you really think you'd want to go back to less rewards for the same effort? Which then begs the question, are you playing this game for you or the other people in your fellowship? From your other posts, it doesn't sound like the wrangling of 24 other players is your first love about the game and why you are playing. Some people need to be the Archmage because they just want to be the boss, but you don't fit that profile. And now you're going to hold yourself back to appease other people's playing styles. A better option that benefits everyone would be to play with 24 other people that want to play like you do and don't want to hold you back! If you want to be an Archmage, then keep the Archmage hat. If you don't, then go join an existing competitive FS. If your existing group wants to stay casual, then it's probably not going to fall apart if someone takes over. There isn't much administrative overhead needed to allow everyone to be chill. And if you're afraid of burnout in the future, well it's waaaaay easier to throttle down from competitive to casual.
I appreciate what you are saying but I do like running a semi-competitive fellowship. I don't think I could run a true competitive fellowship but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to play in one. This fellowship would eventually fall into disrepair unless the right person showed up to take over. That person has not showed themself yet. Also it is very real that I could burn right out of Elvenar if I went 100%. There are few in this game that have kept that pace up. Just look at what happened to Platinum Leaf, Gems of Knowledge and the various YouTubers who have played this game. For a relaxed fellowship we do well just need about 4 more committed folks and I won't be booting anyone anytime soon so I will just enjoy what I have.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
@mucksterme For some reason I was viewing your fellowship a few days ago and saw your very unique name there. I don't remember why I was there. I usually recruit from inactive fellowships and those are the ones I look at. Maybe I was looking at higher ranking tourney fellowships. Anyways, I will keep you in mind even though I don't see me changing soon. We just filled our 25th spot and have a created event coming up in 9 days that I am excited to see how the fellows do. Thanks!
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
@Henroo I was thinking of partnering with a more casual fellowship to make this one less casual.
To me that seems like a good idea. Most fellowships just cut loose their less active members. You are actively trying to find them a more casual FS to join. To me that is going above and beyond. And if you do not ever move out the members who are not pulling their weight, you will never have a chance to recruit better members and improve you current FS. Just be aware that recruiting to fill multiple spots will probably not be easy.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
Their aversion to meeting their minimums matches my aversion to babysit grown adults!
exactly

And when others keep telling me, "Let's give so and so another chance," I think, "Why? We've already given him a months' worth of chances." I need to make sure we give the best experience to the active players, not the inactive ones.
exactly my thought as well
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
Also along this vein of thought, about a week ago I asked my mages if they would like it to be a more competitive group and half answered and said they like the people we have. I assume the other half had no opinion so if I made JusticeSQ more competitive than it would be counter to what most would want out of this fellowship.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
Also along this vein of thought, about a week ago I asked my mages if they would like it to be a more competitive group and half answered and said they like the people we have. I assume the other half had no opinion so if I made JusticeSQ more competitive than it would be counter to what most would want out of this fellowship.
Perhaps begin transitioning the fellowship by starting with low requirements and then progress onwards. I send a message when I do something that affects all. In that message, I let them know that a response is MANDATORY. If they don't reply to that, they are just not caring what happens.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
Also along this vein of thought, about a week ago I asked my mages if they would like it to be a more competitive group and half answered and said they like the people we have. I assume the other half had no opinion so if I made JusticeSQ more competitive than it would be counter to what most would want out of this fellowship.
Hmm... you could start out with one very small thing. And just see what happens. On another note, have you thought about maybe a second city to start and work that towards getting to try that competitive playstyle that way but without giving up your other fs? There are competitive fs in top 50 that would be more than happy to take you in. Just a thought. Then you could have the best of both worlds.
 

Katwick

Cartographer
*squints* So I have to do even more work on their behalf because they don't want to do their fair share? Errr...nope. Hard pass.
Less work, actually. The early game is quite a bit different than the later game. The split might be Chapter 1-6 & 6-20+.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Communication, being the heart of any good human enterprise, means responding. Now if a person is not responding but is actually active, they are dropping the ball. It is unlikely that both chat and the msg system would be down at the same time and thus, a channel should be available to let people know you are having serious computer issues. From that they can work with you to decide what can/should be done. Maybe movement to another fs with a more laid back system (Like Land of Shadows on Khelonaar) with the understand that when they are ready they get the next open slot; or, a set amount of time to get things resolved before leaving voluntarily. Again, it's a matter of communication and if a person fails to communicate, they really aren't a good match for a good, competitive, fs, right?

So, after sending out multiple msgs, leaving msgs in chat, communicating with people as to if the person has responded in chat, (after all it's not going to scroll off chat without somebody reading it), and so on, it's time to let them go. Membership is a relationship and if the communication breaks down the relationship breaks down. At that point it's "bye-bye, hope you find a new fs more to your liking/needs."

AJ
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Also it is very real that I could burn right out of Elvenar if I went 100%.
It could also be from whatever is the opposite of burnout. I heard the pirate ships chapter is a real slog and moves at a glacial pace.
Also along this vein of thought, about a week ago I asked my mages if they would like it to be a more competitive group and half answered and said they like the people we have. I assume the other half had no opinion so if I made JusticeSQ more competitive than it would be counter to what most would want out of this fellowship.
As long as you are doing what you want and not only doing what they want. Personally, if I'm going to go through the extra hassle of being an AM, then I'm building the FS the way *I* want. I'm not building a FS someone else wants so they don't have to do the extra work of being the AM themselves. There are definitely things I'll poll the team on, but the pace and culture of the FS is something I define as the AM.
Less work, actually. The early game is quite a bit different than the later game. The split might be Chapter 1-6 & 6-20+.
Nope! You're never going to convince me anything that starts off with creating another account constitutes as less work. Because you know what's even less work and easier than Chapter 1? NOT PLAYING CHAPTER 1! Dog walking might be an easy job, but taking a second job as a dog walker doesn't constitute as less work. And all for someone who won't carry their weight? Heck no.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
about a week ago I asked my mages if they would like it to be a more competitive group

I remember the last time my FS did a poll like that
This was at least a year ago, maybe two
An FA was coming up and some of our people had RL issues, others were just feeling burned out from events
So we asked the membership if they wanted to just be casual with the FA
The vote was an over whelming yes
We came in 3rd that FA lol
We just couldn't help it
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@ajqtrz the chat only holds the last 100 messages and a very chatty group will make many more comments than that in just one day.

From the previous post:

"So, after sending out multiple msgs, leaving msgs in chat, communicating with people as to if the person has responded in chat, (after all it's not going to scroll off chat without somebody reading it), and so on, it's time to let them go" (emphasis added to clarify my point).

So all the AM/Mage has to do is ask if anybody has seen person X? If so have them send the AM/Mage a report that X has been in. And/or, have the post asking X to respond to the msg(s) sent so you can know he/she is still active, be repeated and/or say if anybody sees them in chat to tell them the AM/Mage has sent them a msg and wonders if they got it. It's a convoluted way but would be effective if the other people in the fs are good at reporting and posting the AM's msg every 20 or so msgs until the missing responds or enough time has gone by that you are pretty sure they aren't going to respond.

AJ
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
I do not mean those players who have gone inactive. I am referring to those players who are active but maybe don't or can't fit in. Maybe they are more casual players than will work for your fellowship, or maybe they have decided they hate tournaments, or spire, or FAs.
once a year, it are often new recruits with big claims and no results, or new recruits who turn uit to be D*cks. in both cases we have an exit conversation

If I or the fellowship because of actions change the rules of the fellowship it only counts for new recruits not for existing.
In general it's not needed either but I might kick a new recruit for underperforming and leave an old one where it is.
Because with the new recruit we set goals, with the old member we never made the rules once they entered. eventually they leave on there own as I feel very few members get past the 3 year mark. as most players move on the new pastures
 

BlueChantress

New Member
Elvengems is no longer accurate for a lot of things, between the game changing so much in the past couple of years and almost all their people stopped helping keep it up to date. It was never even updated to reflect changes to the tournaments a couple of years ago. There is not much there any more that I would recommend for people to read. Even before all the changes, I never followed their suggestions for numbers of factories or workshops or guest race buildings, and so on. But then, I don't like hand-holding in games and generally do not look up help unless I can't figure something out on my own.

As for the topic, as it continues to get harder and harder to find good players to fill empty places, the choice ends up being not having a full fellowship or taking in the lazy players for a while and then kicking them out when someone willing to put in more effort comes along. I would rather have the empty spots, than have a fake ranking score that includes inactive, or the equivalent of inactive, cities. And then an added complexity to this, for example, is whether you are comfortably making 10 chests or barely scraping up enough points to hit 10 each week. That will play into any decision on whether or not to kick out any slackers.
Good for you in how you handle crap players. In the only two other fellowships I have ever played in I'd ask the Archimage in both groups why 10 out of twenty players only put in enough points (300) in the tourney or ( half way on the first floor) Spire to reap the rewards they just lurk and do little or nothing to help the group? Why are 6 to 10 of the players are allowed to carry the game for those who are at a million points? I left both groups after giving them a fair warning in the group chat. Those slackers would complain about my expecting more and surprised when good players left the group. Good players get tired of lurkers a warning and a timely boot is the only way to keep the good players playing, after the last group I left if I hadn't been invited by a awesome group I am in now I too would have gotten tired of playing and almost left Elvenar completely.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
Good for you in how you handle crap players. In the only two other fellowships I have ever played in I'd ask the Archimage in both groups why 10 out of twenty players only put in enough points (300) in the tourney or ( half way on the first floor) Spire to reap the rewards they just lurk and do little or nothing to help the group? Why are 6 to 10 of the players are allowed to carry the game for those who are at a million points? I left both groups after giving them a fair warning in the group chat. Those slackers would complain about my expecting more and surprised when good players left the group. Good players get tired of lurkers a warning and a timely boot is the only way to keep the good players playing, after the last group I left if I hadn't been invited by a awesome group I am in now I too would have gotten tired of playing and almost left Elvenar completely.
The ones doing that had a score at a million points and couldn't even help a little more than bare minimum that is normally for new players??!!!!! Wow!!!
 

Kadhrin

Well-Known Member
I've seen a few FS implosions bc AMs won't cull deadwood.
players get tired of lurkers
Yup, these are related points. I've been in FSs that imploded or semi-imploded. Some were good groups for a while, got into the top 50 for a bit. But then people went offline for two, six, nine months and the AM wouldn't let them go. Same with people who'd do 300 points per tourney. In one case, when I got recruited out, there were ~10 people who were labeled inactive on Elvenstats. Enough hardcore players quit or left that the group ranking dropped below 100. Given experiences in that and other groups, I think that once a FS falls into the "deadwood is okay" trap, it's likely to stay that way.
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper - Chandelier Swinger - EAA
In 7 years I’ve dreamed about removing several people , countless times …but in reality I’ve removed 4 .
Two for things that’s best left unsaid. One for causing problems in regards to another FS and the last was inactivity.
Others have left on their own due to personal reasons.
When a player hasn’t met the tourney min 1000, prior to the bonus chests I send them a message telling them to sit out the next 2 weeks unless they can make the min, or be removed . I send this in game and email and fb if they have it .
If a player fails to respond to my messages for 7 days … I wake them up by removing them until they contact me.
I had a brand new player come in and has done extremely well bypassing several others ….so the chapter excuses no longer work for me simply because we are all there to help . If one can do it means it can be done .
My peeps know communication is the key with me . They all have my email, fb, and cell # …. So there’s no reason not to communicate. They know if they are having issues in whatever fashion..simply letting me know up front saves a lot of heartache.
For the most part , I consider myself extremely lucky because when and if I have to let someone go … I take it to heart …. They could prolly careless …but I care.
I wish you the best ….it’s tough and I know it.
 
Last edited:

Nectar of the Gods

Well-Known Member
I do not mean those players who have gone inactive. I am referring to those players who are active but maybe don't or can't fit in. Maybe they are more casual players than will work for your fellowship, or maybe they have decided they hate tournaments, or spire, or FAs.
Myne,
I would release any player whose efforts were dragging down the goals of the FS. I would send them a message first, and ask if everything was alright with them and mention their participation in tournament/spire/visits etc had fallen off recently. Often an initial message will give you the information you need to make a determination on whether to keep them or let them go. Sometimes life events come up and those aren't relayed to you. A message can get you that information. If someone was having trouble with their computer or had an illness in the family or was stressed over something else, I would give them additional time and just keep in contact with them. I have always told my players that "real life" comes first. I have also told them that if situations are arising then they need to let me know. If you have that expectation front and center, then usually there isn't a problem.

There has always been an expectation of communication in any FS I have ran. If a person doesn't respond to a message, that is a sure fire path to a second message that is more stern. If they don't respond to that second message, then I will send a third warning message that they are about to be removed from the FS. I give them a certain number of days in the message to respond. I don't hear back and they are gone.

There also should be a time limit on how long real life situations will be an issue with their participation. Set up the expectation and stick with it. I had a person who was abusing my understanding and I kept her too long on the rolls due to her continued issues. Finally I let her go. She was in another FS badmouthing me the next day. Oh. Make friends with other AMs in the world you are playing. It helps keep you abreast of problems as well as being able to gain players or send players that the other AM has in their invites or in their FS.

But before any changes, make sure your expectations are clearly spelled out in your overview, even if you haven't had it written down in the past. Make sure everyone in your FS reads it, so they know what you expect. And make sure anyone who applies to your FS has read and agrees with the overview.
 
Top