How to start a wonder society spreadsheet?

[Soleil Nightbloom]

This will be my fellowships first attempt at building a wonder society. I went to Elvengems.com and downloaded the template and went to YouTube, but I'm stuck. Do I just erase all the names in the template? I'm afraid if I erase anything I'll miss up the formulas? All the instructions are very technical and having a hard time following. My fellowship hasn't started yet, just setting everything up and working out the kinks. Can someone explain to me clearly how to use the template?

I also tried looking into knowing how to start a KP thread for the first time but can't find anything. The archmage and myself like the appeal the spreadsheet scenario works. Just can't figure out how to start

 

[NightshadeCS]

Let me tag a few folks who know what they're talking about...

@Mykan @SoggyShorts @TomatoeHu

 

[Mykan]

I have placed a screenshot below to try and help. The red section is where the members names will go, this will allow them to appear in the drop box for name in the green area. So just enter in the names you have and for the others I would call them blank1, blank2 or spare 1, spare 2, etc. When new people join just use a spare spot. Once you fill up all the spots and need new ones it is a bit trickier but can help you with what to do at that time.

The green square below is the information about wonders that people have in the society

• Status is usually an alpha character and honestly you can use anything but there are some suggestions. Generally done so you can sort by status and all the targets and any reserves go to the top. So common for those to be an A and a B while completed wonders usually get something near the end of the alphabhet.
• Person is a drop box of names from red section
• Wonder is a drop box from wonder data. Should be up-to-date but needs a copy paste form the template every now and then when new levels or wonders are added to the game
• Dates main use is for when a wonder is completed. My fellowship also uses it so we know when we last checked a wonder, to see if it finished upgrading or if some extra KP was added by an outisde person, etc.
• The gray section is the formula, so don't play with those

For a completely new spreadsheet the below area should be showing all 0's except the date which will be to do with the week you are starting/current week. This area is recording donation and who received KP, which is all nil before you start, the big bold reed 7901 will go green and should always be 0 even as you progress

Below is an example of that section in a working society, you can see the big green 0 total balance but then a variety of red and green per person depending on timing of what is happening.

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

Thanks so much @Mykan for helping me get this spreadsheet started I really appreciate it. I have a question about the Auto-Message section at the bottom of the page in the Wonder Society tab. Should I be maintaining this section as well?

 

[Mykan]

Generally no but it will depend on how many targets and reserves you want. We run 5 targets and sometimes as many reserves so we added some expanded options. Usually use an option with more reserves and can delete extras when we paste it if needed.

The auto message reads the first x number of rows. So if you have 2 targets and 2 reserves it will read the first 4 rows, for 3 targets and 2 reserves it is first 5 rows. Just avoid any hidden rows sneaking into the top x rows and it will be fine.

The rows below the auto message have some fancy headers for chat which can help it standout more, or use your own style

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

Thanks so much for your help! I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope it goes well when we start

 

[mucksterme]

Added:

This is the second time in a week I went into a thread and saw a post I forgot to hit 'enter' on.
Must be senility

I also tried looking into knowing how to start a KP thread for the first time but can't find anything.

Threads are much easier, especially for beginners.

Usually they are done in 5s. If you are just introducing the idea to your fs I'd suggest you start off with just one or two threads. 5KP and 10KP. If the idea becomes popular you can expand. My FS has 5 -10 - 15 - 20 -25 - 30 & 50. And people often do side trades of 100.

to start a thread you'll have to donate to someone's AW.
for example in the 5KP thread you would donate to someone and the thread would look like this

5KP to Moondoggies GA - My EE please
Then the next person would donate to your EE and put
5KP to Soleils EE --- My Monastery pls

after that the threads can just go on forever

this works out as an advantage to the fs because it spreads the bonus chests around
and there are no losers because even if you donate bu

 

[SoggyShorts]

this works out as an advantage to the fs because it spreads the bonus chests around
and there are no losers because even if you donate bu

Not sure how that sentence was going to end, but it should be pointed out that regular swap threads do not distribute chest rewards evenly or fairly unless by random chance.
A Wonder Society can be made to do so, and a Net-Zero Swap guarantees it.

 

[Mykan]

Threads are much easier, especially for beginners.

Only easier to set-up and that is only for the facilitator. Once things get going a wonder society is amazingly low maintenance and from experience less time, plus as soggy pointed out it is fair with guarenteed rewards.

For a fs member the society is far easier for beginners and experienced players as it is less complicated and fiddly (messages).

 

[DeletedUser19418]

Here is a manual I'm working on to help players understand how WoSo ranks players' AWs. It's not done, but I will continue to improve it as I get more info as to what would help increase understanding of the system. Also, I plan to make a document on how to develop and maintain a WoSo spreadsheet in due time.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PQyH4leaYWg00BOYaIvzTKiGkCDwFTJYmJyyf_w1zSw/edit

here is a shorter URL:

https://tinyurl.com/y43ralof

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Only easier to set-up and that is only for the facilitator. Once things get going a wonder society is amazingly low maintenance and from experience less time, plus as soggy pointed out it is fair with guarenteed rewards.

For a fs member the society is far easier for beginners and experienced players as it is less complicated and fiddly (messages).

I've never used WS in real life, but I can't think anything can be lower maintenance than swap threads. And anything that requires an external spreadsheet is not low maintenance in my book, pretty much by definition.

It might be more equitable/fair in rewards distribution, I wouldn't know, was never a concern of mine. But the vast majority of players in this game (outside of very few advanced players/FS) will only stick with a system if it is extremely simple to use and understand. There is a reason why swap threads are much more prevalent than other methods of bonus KP management.

 

[DeletedUser19418]

Actually, I run a WoSo myself in a FS that is smaller than Emerald Elites. I have a player that helps me input data when I'm not on, but I handle all the updates. All players need to do is look up the Targets listed in the Wonder Society message and drop KPs into the listed player's AW. Can't really get any easier than that, and you have options toward which ones you want to build up.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I can't think anything can be lower maintenance than swap threads

I think the Net-Zero Swap is less maintenance since you only need one message thread, and rewards are distributed perfectly.

For those who don't know how a Net-Zero Swap works:
a player will announce what wonder they are working on next E.G.
"I'm working on my Golden Abyss"
As other players log in they donate once to that wonder in an amount equal to the highest available chest.
So, if the top unclaimed chest reward is worth 45 KP, they donate 45 KP (this will net them 0 KP once the wonder fills, hence the name of the system)
The player who claims the final chest will post in the thread: "I got the last chest in Soggy's Golden Abyss"
And that's it, now, Soggy can fill his own Golden Abyss at whatever pace he wants.

The only real downside is that you need at least 7 active players who have a decent stash of KP instants since you would often have a couple hundred tied up in your FS's wonders.

 

[Mykan]

I've never used WS in real life, but I can't think anything can be lower maintenance than swap threads. And anything that requires an external spreadsheet is not low maintenance in my book, pretty much by definition.

It might be more equitable/fair in rewards distribution, I wouldn't know, was never a concern of mine. But the vast majority of players in this game (outside of very few advanced players/FS) will only stick with a system if it is extremely simple to use and understand. There is a reason why swap threads are much more prevalent than other methods of bonus KP management.

then you need to checkout a society, it is less maintenace for all involved. I have compared several times that as a participant in an endless swap I would do as much work up to double the effort of facilitating a society to just participate in an endless swap. As a society particpant the effort is negligible, read a message and donate while in an endless swap there is an endless amount of messaging.

Each to their own.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I think the Net-Zero Swap is less maintenance since you only need one message thread, and rewards are distributed perfectly.

Unless I misunderstand, this is one of those systems that claim fairness, but where incentives are misaligned (IMO). So what incentive do I have to actually drop KPs into other people wonders? Sounds like I am better off always posting messages of "I am working on my XYZ AW", but never drop actual KPs into others. There is no obvious link that I can see there.

In the KP swaps, if you don't post KPs you don't get fills from others. And if you post messages but don't drop actual KPs this is also very easy for anyone to see and verify.

 

[Iyapo1]

The only real downside is that you need at least 7 active players who have a decent stash of KP instants since you would often have a couple hundred tied up in your FS's wonders.

Another downside is that mobile players can not see the amount of AW KP rewards in the chest.

 

[SoggyShorts]

what incentive do I have to actually drop KPs into other people wonders?
Sounds like I am better off always posting messages of "I am working on my XYZ AW", but never drop actual KPs into others.

You don't drop KP into other people's wonders, you put all of your KP into your own wonders other than grabbing chests which costs you nothing.

I think I must have explained it poorly, because it really does work and is perfectly fair.

You know how some players refuse to be in swaps and instead, they self-level?
But when they are almost done filling their own wonder they announce in chat "I'm almost done upgrading my GA, all 5 chests are available" and then people donate a random amount and end up with a reward? Maybe their FS members get 80 KP in rewards for 53 total donations?

This is like that, but instead of waiting until the end you get your FS members to pay for chests in advance so that they break even and then you fill and upgrade your own wonder for the full discount (e.g. if a wonder needs 500 KP and has 80 KP in rewards it costs you exactly 420 KP to upgrade)

To sum it up in a sentence: Everyone just self-levels their own wonders, but their FS buys all reward chests at full cost.(net-zero)

Spoiler: another example if needed.

Let me try another example:
Let's pretend that wonders only have 1 reward chest worth 10 KP.
Minmax wants to upgrade his GA so he says "I'm doing my GA next"
Soggy sees the message and donates 10 KP.
That's it. Soggy never donates to Minmax's GA again- it's up to minmax to dump all of his KP into his own wonder until it's full.
At the same time, Soggy want to level his BTG so he messages the FS "I'm doing my BTG next"
Bob sees the message and donates 10 KP. Soggy fills his own BTG at his leisure.
and so on. Everyone has 1 wonder that they are self-leveling, but they get their FS to grab all of the chests in advance so that none are missed, and no one outside of the FS can steal them for a profit. This effectively gives all of the rewards to the wonder owner by simply reducing the cost to level a wonder by exactly 100% of the total reward chests in that wonder.

 

[Mykan]

Unless I misunderstand, this is one of those systems that claim fairness, but where incentives are misaligned (IMO). So what incentive do I have to actually drop KPs into other people wonders? Sounds like I am better off always posting messages of "I am working on my XYZ AW", but never drop actual KPs into others. There is no obvious link that I can see there.

In the KP swaps, if you don't post KPs you don't get fills from others. And if you post messages but don't drop actual KPs this is also very easy for anyone to see and verify.

It is self-levelling but a way to guarentee the 20% rewards, and even if you don't get the 20% any donor gets back what they put in, so no one misses out. Endless swaps require 100% kp donation and then some luck and/or imbalance to reduce your kp to level a wonder. If your unlucky you pay 100% and if your super lucky or a high donor you can get better than 20% return (but at the cost of another member).

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

You don't drop KP into other people's wonders, you put all of your KP into your own wonders other than grabbing chests which costs you nothing.

OK, so if there is a chest that cost 45KP, my options are:

- Put 45KP into someone else's AW, which will net me 45KP back eventually, and then drop those into my own AW
- Put 45KP into my own wonder directly (don't take other people's chests, but post in the thread)

Sounds like option 1 nets the same result with more delay and hassle (probably not much, but still). My own AW chests get fully filled regardless, by someone else.

EDIT: Or are you posting only after grabbing someone else's chest? Even then, the incentive would be to wait for smaller chests as to minimize tying up KPs unproductively.

 

[Iyapo1]

It also looks like the net zero fails to perform "fairly" if a neighbor decides to donate and boots someone off a chest. Though that is rare it does happen.