• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

I love the Treants! :D

DeletedUser482

Guest
Fighting battles in the provinces is so much fun now I have Treants ...

I pulled out all the stops to get them, because they were the first monster unit for my army. It was so worth the wait.

Their fighting style is great, they make me laugh so much when they clobber the enemy with their big long branchy arms, and knock them over, grunting as they do so. They are almost indestructible.

The Treants' only fault is that they seem to stand around and wait until most of your sword dancers are dead before they start fighting. Other than that, I adore them. They have made the game so much more fun. I almost cry when they get killed in battle. Then I train some more.

I can't wait to get the Golems next. ;) :D
 

DeletedUser

Guest
That sounds so cool! I can hardly wait to get those!
 

DeletedUser482

Guest
They are worth waiting for. I paid a few diamonds at the end because there was one type of goods that was taking too long to produce.

One tip with the battles: sometimes the enemy squads are arranged so it looks like a small army. Then you realise it's actually 109 swordsmen plus 109 2-headed dogs, just arranged in 2 squares so it looks small.

If the sum total of your army squads adds up to more than the enemy squads, then you have a chance to beat them, even before you get the Treants. Also, don't let the archers walk towards the enemy before the sword dancers. The archers will die if they get too close to enemy units such as the 2 headed dog or swamp monster.

As time goes on, your archers begin to get smarter and stay back to shoot enemy troops down. But it does get so much better when you have the Treants.
 

DeletedUser478

Guest
I could be mistaken, Im relatively new myself and on the verge of getting dogs as my 3rd type of unit, and after looking at the the units table i thought to myself the other night that treants make elves a far more powerful race if this game ever introduces pvp. that said, i also see the capacity that treants could be kited easily... i dunno without seeing the gameplay play out of the two units. But on paper treants health and damage vs dogs is vastly unbalanced. One could argue the amount of tyles a dog moves and the fact that it can eat up archers, but low health pretty much means it it gets wailed on by knights or swamp creatures they will get wrecked.
 

DeletedUser482

Guest
I could be mistaken, Im relatively new myself and on the verge of getting dogs as my 3rd type of unit, and after looking at the the units table i thought to myself the other night that treants make elves a far more powerful race if this game ever introduces pvp. that said, i also see the capacity that treants could be kited easily... i dunno without seeing the gameplay play out of the two units. But on paper treants health and damage vs dogs is vastly unbalanced. One could argue the amount of tyles a dog moves and the fact that it can eat up archers, but low health pretty much means it it gets wailed on by knights or swamp creatures they will get wrecked.

The Treants are usually killed either by Treant II if you only have Treant I; or by the knights that weild the big spears. The 2-headed dogs are indeed a big peril for the archers, in fact for my next battle in a Crystal province (which has the dogs), I'm going to just use only sword dancers & Treants. That might work better. Also once you've had casualties, it's a good idea to have the new army training overnight, when you can sleep and forget about waiting for the new squads to be ready.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I could be mistaken, Im relatively new myself and on the verge of getting dogs as my 3rd type of unit, and after looking at the the units table i thought to myself the other night that treants make elves a far more powerful race if this game ever introduces pvp. that said, i also see the capacity that treants could be kited easily... i dunno without seeing the gameplay play out of the two units. But on paper treants health and damage vs dogs is vastly unbalanced. One could argue the amount of tyles a dog moves and the fact that it can eat up archers, but low health pretty much means it it gets wailed on by knights or swamp creatures they will get wrecked.

Treant's stats looks impressive when standing alone, but keep in mind it is counted as 12 units, so when the stats is divided by 12, it's not that outstanding- its attack becomes 7-9 and its hp around 31. Its hp is still abnormally high, but since its initiative is lower than sword dancer and archer, it can't really serve as a tank. Plus you're right they can be easily kited, which is what I do when facing treants in the provinces. They are only effective against dogs, which is the sole reason I keep a few of them. So don't be sad about human's units- both of them have their strengths and weaknesses;)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I'm not sure about treants. If the only thing they're good for is taking out cerberii/war dogs... seems like they're easily replaceable with sword dancers, which don't have the severe mobility issues that treants have.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I'm not sure about treants. If the only thing they're good for is taking out cerberii/war dogs... seems like they're easily replaceable with sword dancers, which don't have the severe mobility issues that treants have.

I don't know what devs think, but this is exactly what I'm doing.
 

DeletedUser21

Guest
I'm not sure about treants. If the only thing they're good for is taking out cerberii/war dogs... seems like they're easily replaceable with sword dancers, which don't have the severe mobility issues that treants have.

While Treants are good for taking out war dogs, I've found them to be more useful in taking out treants and golems.
 

DeletedUser723

Guest
Is one kind of "soldier" better than the others? Which should I invest in training the most? Thanks for sharing your experience. I always just auto. fight, since battles are not my thing. I am an urban planner at heart :)
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
It's a Rock, Paper, Scissors game. Every unit has a weakness, and a strength, and the Elven units react differently than the Human units.

You should select the combination of units that will do the best against that particular opponent. It's actually an interesting, non-trivial mini-game.
 

DeletedUser723

Guest
It's a Rock, Paper, Scissors game. Every unit has a weakness, and a strength, and the Elven units react differently than the Human units.

You should select the combination of units that will do the best against that particular opponent. It's actually an interesting, non-trivial mini-game.
Thanks! I lost the first couple I tried and realized this part of the game could delay my urban planning! I may try again, though.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
this part of the game could delay my urban planning!
And especially so if you get interested :rolleyes:.

To the point, exploring several sectors, maybe a couple dozen sectors, IS an efficient way to:
  • Gain trading partners to avoid the 50% markup (you should also join a decent Fellowship)
  • Gain relics for your boosted manufacturing goods (check the relics tab on your main hall)
  • Gain knowledge points to accelerate your Tech Tree progress.
BUT, the further you range the more expensive and dangerous it gets, and you'll find that bribery works a lot better during the later stages of the game. What you DON'T need is a bunch of armories. You'll have plenty of time to train troops.
 

DeletedUser723

Guest
And especially so if you get interested :rolleyes:.

To the point, exploring several sectors, maybe a couple dozen sectors, IS an efficient way to:
  • Gain trading partners to avoid the 50% markup (you should also join a decent Fellowship)
  • Gain relics for your boosted manufacturing goods (check the relics tab on your main hall)
  • Gain knowledge points to accelerate your Tech Tree progress.
BUT, the further you range the more expensive and dangerous it gets, and you'll find that bribery works a lot better during the later stages of the game. What you DON'T need is a bunch of armories. You'll have plenty of time to train troops.
Yes, it is getting dangerous and expensive. I need to hibernate and save for a couple of days. Time to read a book!
 

DeletedUser749

Guest
I'm not sure about treants. If the only thing they're good for is taking out cerberii/war dogs... seems like they're easily replaceable with sword dancers, which don't have the severe mobility issues that treants have.

Easily replaceable indeed. The unit weight combined with poor damage calculation methods makes the treants a pretty poor unit. The human cerebri are much more efficient in that they have the mobility to actually strike first. First strike is so fundamentally strong.
 

DeletedUser723

Guest
I haven't gotten to treants yet, but notice that archers aren't getting involved (or taking damage) as long as sword dancers are on the team. I auto fight. So I have started training mostly sword dancers, especially now that they are advanced.

Another related question: How are multiple armories an advantage (besides looking nice?)
 

DeletedUser688

Guest
my experience with treants seems to be different than everyone else here...

I find treants to be completely useless except for clearing out the orcs and dog provinces.

I feel like elves got screwed on the troop types

it doesn't seem to make any difference, what i use, every battle costs me 4 hours worth of casualties. there is no possible way to complete battles in the 5th ring and onward without losses, they just get too ludicrous putting you up against 8 squads at a time of mixed, cannoneers, archers and heavy knights and stuff



I mean elves have no "fast" units.
and no "long ranged artillery"

elves have nothing that can move like the dogs. and nothing with the range of the cannoneers.
at least the treants can deal with dogs but any battle against cannoneers has me scrambling forward, losing the first 3 turns trying to get close enough to hit the ranged units while they bombard me with mortars. and then they put heavy knights in front of the cannoneers to kill any sword dancers that try to get close, and you can't send in treants because a cannonneer can take out 80% of a treant squad in 1 hit and they can destroy a squad of archer II in 1 hit.

and then there are the mages...the mages are just BS, 4 movement rate?! and a ranged attack that debuffs your attack power 50%?! and they just kite your troops always moving just out of melee range.

and why is it that the enemy units get bonuses of like +80% attack and defense, while my units only get +20%. that's BS

granted, i still have not unlocked golems, but those look crappy as well, I guess golems are elves "artillery" unit but they have shorter range than archers and move as slow as treants. what's the point of a ranged unit if it has to get in melee range to use it's "ranged" attack?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser749

Guest
I haven't gotten to treants yet, but notice that archers aren't getting involved (or taking damage) as long as sword dancers are on the team. I auto fight. So I have started training mostly sword dancers, especially now that they are advanced.

Another related question: How are multiple armories an advantage (besides looking nice?)

1) Strategy. Avoid auto-fighting if you want to preserve troops. The AI is similar to that of the enemy. It's set to charge. Charge, if in range of anything, attack that. If in range of more than one thing, attack that with the highest initiative. This is why you lose sword dancers over archers. By having them charge they will be in range before the archers, and when both are in range the sword dancers still have higher initiative.
When fighting a combat the terrain differs. This means your first move will either be a good 1st barrage of the enemy, or simply your troops moving into line of fire of the enemy. This is why you should fight manually. Often waiting a turn, or moving into position on the outside of the potential enemy range will give you the first attack. Despite retarded damage calculation, getting the first attack greatly increases the rate of victory and preserves your troops.

2) Multiple armories increase the amount of troops you can queue in one go. If you are not active enough to keep your armory queue filled it may be beneficial to stock up on armories. If you on the other hand spend loads of time on the game and have no problems with replenishing your troops then you should NOT have any armories at all. It costs valuable space, workers and culture. Arguably fights get more and more impossible, possibly eliminating the feasibility to ever fight and thus removes the need for armories. All in all, I would recommend against them and suggest you skip quests related to armories - I can't recall one I couldn't decline.

my experience with treants seems to be different than everyone else here...

I find treants to be completely useless except for clearing out the orcs and dog provinces.

I feel like elves got screwed on the troop types

it doesn't seem to make any difference, what i use, every battle costs me 4 hours worth of casualties. there is no possible way to complete battles in the 5th ring and onward without losses, they just get too ludicrous putting you up against 8 squads at a time of mixed, cannoneers, archers and heavy knights and stuff



I mean elves have no "fast" units.
and no "long ranged artillery"

elves have nothing that can move like the dogs. and nothing with the range of the cannoneers.
at least the treants can deal with dogs but any battle against cannoneers has me scrambling forward, losing the first 3 turns trying to get close enough to hit the ranged units while they bombard me with mortars. and then they put heavy knights in front of the cannoneers to kill any sword dancers that try to get close, and you can't send in treants because a cannonneer can take out 80% of a treant squad in 1 hit and they can destroy a squad of archer II in 1 hit.

and then there are the mages...the mages are just BS, 4 movement rate?! and a ranged attack that debuffs your attack power 50%?! and they just kite your troops always moving just out of melee range.

and why is it that the enemy units get bonuses of like +80% attack and defense, while my units only get +20%. that's BS

granted, i still have not unlocked golems, but those look crappy as well, I guess golems are elves "artillery" unit but they have shorter range than archers and move as slow as treants. what's the point of a ranged unit if it has to get in melee range to use it's "ranged" attack?

I wholeheartedly agree that elves drew the shortest of sticks when units were handed out. The treants are of very limited use. Humans get the strong cerberi unit to kill off archers giving a bit of strategic alternative. They do not however get cannoneers. That ridiculously powerful unit is enemy AI only. Granted they "randomized" the damage by giving it a humongous range, so you can get lucky some fights >_<
The aim is clear though. To promote using real-money currency ressurrecting your fallen, and/or to prevent people from fighting their way forwards without significant casualties - thereby forcing you to wait in order to tech up.
I agree with you that the current state borders impossible once you get out to rings 5 and up. The tech for your own units at the time does NOT compare to the enemies you face.
Golems should balance out the elves vs humans I suppose. The idea being that humans get a unit similar to the heavy knight (2 move, 2 range) where elves get a less ranged range (3 move, 3 range). It's not pretty at first, but quite often waiting your turn, forcing the enemy forwards would allow the golems to be a strong 1st-attack unit. At least compared to the human's paladin unit we win there ^_^!
As for your troubles, I suggest mainly negotiating the tough fights and keep the fighting to the easy provinces only (good terrain, lots of melee enemies, no/few mages/cannoneers). Trading combined with the repeatable quests allows you to build up ressources rather well, minimizing the troubles needed for negotiating. Of course this requires some sort of people willing to help eachother and not just powder their own cake...

Wooo wall of text over.
Tl:dr;
* answers for cassandrailium
* I agree with femaiden
 
Top