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Your Elvenar Team
I never did a lot of fighting before I mostly cater now I'm trying to do this spire and I can't get past the second portal. The main problem is I'm upgrading my camp, barracks and training grounds and now they're only taking three hours to make all the troops. The problem is I'm working 12 hours a day and can't get on and reset them to make troops any suggestions?
Wondering if doing the squad upgrades will help? Doing that would mean to go all the way back to chapter five and I am currently in chapter 16.
More armories at max level for your chapter will greatly increase the number of troops produced in each slot. Also, build the Dwarven Bulwark and Shrooms Wonders, they do the same as armories.
@SilverbugLuxor It sounds like what you need is more training time. The single best way to get this is the Dwarven Bulwark ancient wonder. It will add a massive amount of training time once upgraded. If you don't have it already, build it. If you do have it, upgrade it. 2nd best way is the Shrine of Shrooms ancient wonder. 3rd best way is to upgade your armories or to build new ones. Armories will also enhance the effect of Shrine of Shrooms because it uses total number of armory levels to calculate its bonus. If you have 6 or more max level armories then Shine is actually better than Dwarven Bulwark. Dwarven Bulwark uses your total squad size to calculate its effect. Picking up the squad size techs you skipped will increase the effectivness of Dwarven Bulwark. But other than that, they will not help your problem.
Bulwark solution will save you most space. Shrewdy solution will make exiting armories more effective. Building more armories will be least taxing on increased cost of encounters, but expensive in terms of real estate and population. You can also mix and match as they are not mutually exclusive. I have both Bulwark and Shrewdy. I prefer the Shrewdy solution though so my Shrewdy is leveled much higher than Bulwark.
Also, even if your queue time is really short, Needles, Flying Academy, and Victory Springs will help because (1) If you are trying to fight Lab (assuming “portal” means a whole section), you need to also be able to make back enough troops to fight Lab again next week. Lab uses pretty large stacks, which means a lot of dead troops too that need replacing. (2) Needles and Victory Springs strengthen your light range and light melee units as well in the process of speeding up troops.
The workshops after chap 15 seems to make a lot of supplies but expect an increase in supplies to feed your new army. Personally, despite the high troop requirements, I find fighting the Lab is still most economical if you can do it. Catering Lab is not economical because the math is not in your favor. You also don’t have to worry about juggling a whole bunch of decaying inventory if you can fight it.
Doing the squad upgrade researches means your squads will be bigger when you fight on the world map, which makes those fights easier, but do nothing for the tournament or Spire fights. They also change how many squads you have because they are bigger and hold more troops., so you will have less squads available for the world map, but the same number of troops. And they do not change how many troops you make, just how many of them make a squad after you have made them. If you are not in a rush to complete those researches, then they make very good ones to use whenever an event quest asks you to complete a research.
I'm not sure what you mean by go back. All you have to do is click through the tech tree and unlock the advance. You should not have to reconstruct any of the old settlements. I believe that optional advances you can skip typically don't require chapter specific guest race goods. The old squad size techs you skipped should just require gold, supplies, and goods. And if they are much earlier in the game than your current chapter, they will be downright cheap.
I'm not sure what you mean by go back. All you have to do is click through the tech tree and unlock the advance. You should not have to reconstruct any of the old settlements. I believe that optional advances you can skip typically don't require chapter specific guest race goods. The old squad size techs you skipped should just require gold, supplies, and goods. And if they are much earlier in the game than your current chapter, they will be downright cheap.
You make that sound like that's a bad thing. All it is is just a bit of scrolling to reach the techs so you can put KP into / activate them. I personally prefer to keep a few incomplete in reserve so I can complete event quests that want a research completed on-demand.
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Protip: On browser/PC, clicking the chapter button will scroll you to an incomplete tech nearest to that chapter's start, or at the start of the chapter if none is available. The mobile app doesn't have that QoL feature, and will always scrolls to the start of the chapter.
Squad size helps with determining the amount of free troops collected from certain wonders. They help, but the free troops aren’t enough to live on if you plan to fight Spire, unless they are troops you rarely use. For example, I don’t train any Sword Dancers in my Barracks but get them from my Bulwark. I never use them in tourney or Spire, but I might send them in to do map provinces to complete a quest bc all my map provinces are very easy so it doesn’t matter who I send in to do the job.
To maximize troop production, it’s better to use your queue length of all 5 slots to determine how many armories or upgrade levels on your Shrewdy/Bulwark. You want it to cover your longest period away from the game, which is usually overnight unless you only check in a few days a week. For most people, that is around the 8hr mark. Some of us like to pad this to be even longer for Brown Bear feedings and Time Instant usage. Use whatever combo helps your city the most. If you need more untrained orcs, maybe build more armories. If you want to save space, maybe do Bulwark. If you want to maximize existing armories, hit Shrewdy. Or do some of each, which is what I do to meet my needs. It’s a balancing act. When you upgrade certain buildings, it speeds up your queue and then you may need to lengthen it again.
I personally do all of my squad size upgrades as that means I can train more at a time and bring more to my fights. Anything at all to get more I try to do.
I also saw in Mykans fighting guide under the battle help section here on forum within first few paragraphs talks about making sure to do your squad size upgrades and why if you are curious and would like to read it.
Hi Crackie, I would love to learn how to fight 2-3 waves, so far Im doing pretty good with 1 wave, but when I hit those multiple waves and also the 3 starred enemy..it's negotiation time. once in a great great while I can do it..I'm mainly asking for my Elf city..chapter woodelves. I have the Valorian Guard producing in crafted and special buildings. and also another troop that I can't remember their name. Any help would be appreciated, I was told to come to you. I am mobile. I have been told it is auto fight, but I match one for one down the line based on weakneses and strenghts. Thank you.
Thank you to all contributors on this subject and to Silverbug Luxor for asking the question. The knowledge provided here and in Crackies posts is exactly the information i have been searching for.
Much appreciated.
@Tavina
Multiple waves are more difficult on Mobile because the 'secret' is having your troops survive the first and second waves. The auto-fight is pretty dumb and it only knows attack, attack, attack, sometimes attacking the 'wrong' enemy troop just because it is close. This makes survival a problem. Case in point: in manual fighting (which I know you do not do, but just as an example) it is wise to hold back or even retreat Archers into the corners while the heavy Golems clear out the dogs, mist walkers and other LM and LR, then bring the Archers forward to finish off the Mages and Swamp Monsters or other heavy melee. This cannot be done in auto-fight.
My suggestions are: first, calculation, then preparation. By calculation I mean try a defense strategy: decide which is the most numerous opposing troop type (in all waves) and choose a squad with the highest defense buffs against that one opposing troop type. Might work to boost survival.
By preparation, I means leveling up the pertinent AW battle buildings. Make sure your Martial Monastery is maxxed out. Sure, it is expensive in terms of KP, but it buffs ALL of your troops. Next, make sure your Temple of Toads is maxxed out because Golems are relied upon for defense more than any other. Then max out Needles because of how often we rely upon Archers and Rangers. Finally, Dragon Abbey. Sure you can upgrade in any order, jumping around from AW to AW, this is just a casual preference suggestion.
Next, use expiring buildings if you have them. Craft more of them in MA if you do not.
Before you get lost in the details, let's back up and look at the big picture:
The Spire (and Tourney) become more troop (and negotiation) costly depending upon how many expansions you have (among other things*). Unless you are a city-designer type of player, stop placing unneeded expansions just to host unneeded Event Buildings and non-military AWs (like the large MH for example). If you are already over expanded then you are paying the price and cannot slim down. You probably have the AWs that make resources, since you have been a negotiator. Perhaps switch your efforts to one of your smaller cities. Make it 'lean and mean' by acquiring only those buildings that augment the military, limit it to those, store your unneeded manufactories, and quit expanding unless really needed for a specific purpose.
Finally, ElvenStats.com suggests to me that you have 4 cities, none of which are on my server so I am blind as to your layout. If you work 12 hours a day it makes no sense to me to have four cities. I assume only one is in 16, is this correct? Concentrate on everyones suggestions in the one best city. Let the others lie until you taste the success you are aiming for.
According to MinMaxGame's CAL formula, one expansion increases the CAL (encounter cost) value by 1 while a fully leveled AW to lvl 30 increases CAL by 1/10, one premium expansion increases CAL by about 1/2 and activating one new tech in the research tree (in a mid-game chapter) increases CAL by about 1/100. So adding a non-premium expansion is the most deterministic parameter in increasing the cost of Spire or Tourney, having at least 2 times and up around 100 times more deterministic than any other parameter. Note: to underscore, we are not talking about multiplying the COST, we are talking about multiples of the INCREASE.
Hi Crackie, I would love to learn how to fight 2-3 waves, so far Im doing pretty good with 1 wave, but when I hit those multiple waves and also the 3 starred enemy..it's negotiation time.
This has been asked before. It’s not that I am ignoring you guys, but it’s a difficult tutorial to make because everyone’s city is built so differently. It’s hard to make one tutorial that is all encompassing to be applied by all. For example, most people feed their Fire Phoenix, but that starts off with the assumption everyone has one or it’s evolved to a manageable degree, which is obviously not true. In my FS where I am the AM, I push everyone to be Spire sustainable first and foremost so they can have enough diamonds to buy all the Phoenix artifacts that swing by their MA to get themselves all a level 10 Fire Phoenix as early as possible. Most of my players will have their Fire Phoenix done by chapter 4 or 5 so they now have it for the rest of the game. But in another FS, that becomes a chicken or the egg problem, right? They can’t get the Spire done bc they can’t win fighting or in their minds, not enough people in their FS is climbing the Spire to justify them climbing either. And that conversation is obviously outside the scope of fighting itself, but is just as critical to being successful. My city is at a point where I can win the Spire fighting without feeding the Fire Phoenix, but most of my military wonders are really high. Not everyone has access all the buffing wonders like Dragon Abbey, Victory Springs, Toads, and Hero’s Forge (they prob have Needles) yet though.
Also, I have a very sound manual battle background so I understand troop movement and positioning very well without having to look at the board. I can pick an autofight lineup knowing which unit will take heavy damage and be limping into the next wave so I might need secondary units to handle the enemies he was supposed to handle. That is harder to learn for someone who has only ever known auto-fighting.
Lastly, not everyone should be fighting the Spire either. Even if you can win, they’ll have a difficult time doing it sustainably because of things like the math in early chapter means players just can’t make back enough troops in time. Hence, it’s difficult to make an effective tutorial about multiple wave Spire fighting that is useful and reproducible with effective results without it being overrun with caveats because of all the variables in everyone’s cities. I mean, if you put down enough magnificent mage multipliers, even your mages won’t be scared of a little Hellhound, but it would be irresponsible of me to advocate people start using mages against Hellhounds. I try to take all these things into consideration when I write a tutorial or guide.
@Tavina I've visited your city and looked up your FS. Haha, I know Fletcher's gang!
My notes:
- Your Fire Phoenix is already at 10. Wonderful! Work on your Pet food stash management and try timing your Spire with your tournament feedings. This probably will help make the most difference!
- You have a Level 1 Panda. Panda Bear shares the same artifacts as Brown Bear. I have a fighting city so I prioritized getting Brown Bear evolved first before working on Polar Bear and then Panda. Your Brown Bear is at 7 so you are kinda doing this already. I'm not sure if a level 1 Panda is worth it right now. In your shoes, I would probably just re-craft him in MA when I am done evolving Brown Bear and save on the Royal Restorations. Brown Bear still needs 3 evolves so it might be awhile before you have spare Bear artifacts for Panda.
- I would hit Needles a whole lot harder. Besides speeding up barracks, it also innately buffs your Light Range without need of ELRs. The thing with Light Range is even though you'll lose a lot of them, they're one of the rare units that can kill an entire stack of enemy mages in one shot from early province to pretty late province, especially if you have your Fire Phoenix fed and ELR down. It tips the battle in your favor by a lot if you go into 2nd round with a numbers advantage not having to fight it 5-on-5. You'll have to balance your Needles upgrades with Bulwark upgrades, or add a Shrewdy. Like I've said, I have both Bulwark and Shrewdy but I heavily favor Shrewdy more (see previous posts in this thread).
- You need health buffing to handle multiple waves too. That means hitting up Monastery as well, though it is also a lot faster/easier to drop UUU's or Dwarven Armorers. However, if you're in a drought on buff buildings from MA, you'll need to fall back on a strong Monastery. Level 9 is not really going to help you feel its benefits yet because each upgrade moves the meter a tiny bit, like 1%.
- Merc camp is at level 3. I think it can go higher at your chapter? Blossoms are your friend! Make as many as you can. I don't even train Drone Riders.
- None battle related: I think your FS is active enough that you won't need Traveling Merchants for unboosted goods.
- I don't know how far you are climbing on the Spire, but I know your FS is a Silver group. If you want to fight the Lab, you also need to work on making enough troops fast enough because it uses really large stacks.
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