• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Improvement to royal prizes

Qybyrn

Member
The royal prizes are great idea. Its nice to see something like this to spend diamonds on!!! Great job! However, I do recommend a tweak. In the past, there have been larger culture buildings in the events like Great Auction, Herds Gathering, Rise of Phoenix, etc. I've noticed these have been eliminated from events, maybe offer 1 up as a royal prize each event. This prevents people from farming too many of them, but still we can still earn a few. It could be tied to the 10th artifact to really incentivize people to get there, you will probably sell more stash outposts knowing a nice big culture buildings is waiting with the 10th artifact (instead of relying on the FA for the 9th/10th artifact).
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to examine the idea critically here, so please don't take this personally. This is meant to analyze its viability.

For comparison, links go to ElvenArchitect:
But what price would be put on the larger buildings? Already the Red Forest's stats for ch 18 (6900/6900) are better than the Giant Snail Palace (6x4, 2900/3200) which sells for 3000 diamonds. Basically, the exclusive building is half the price and nearly 1/3 the size of an already offered building with significantly better stats over time (it's upgradeable). If they're going to offer the chance to purchase old buildings, how much would they increase the diamond price of the Royal Prize Pass?

And it would probably be better business for them to push the building out to the second base or the 11th artifact (280-320 stardust) as that's more dedication to get it. But then, what would be the reason for paying diamonds for the Royal Prize Pass? The building is offered up front as basically the reason to purchase it. In the first 10 artifacts, I'm given:
  • 21,500 T3 in my ch 7 city
  • five 30 min timers
  • 3 CCs
  • 1 pet food
  • one 20 hour timer
  • 1 blueprint
  • five 5 hour timers
  • 2 MM spells
  • 1 Ferris Wheel Galore
To compare, I can produce 21,500 T3 in 18 hours (3831 every 3 hours w/ my 3 current manus; quicker when I level 2 of them up). This is the only variable in the offerings, and it might be worth it to later chapter players who need seeds - what with seed buildings being such a problem - to purchase the RPP if they're offered. But other than the blueprint and the FWG, I can make all of those things, win them in the Spire, or even get the MM spells as prizes for NH (and I do get MM spells that way). And I can win the blueprint - and the MM spells - in the Tourney, so it's really only the FWG.

If there weren't a building on offer at the outset, no one would purchase the RPP for the possible chance that they might perhaps get something good if they manage to get the good will of the RNG and end up with the bonus 100/150/200 event currency in chests so that they don't have to also spend diamonds on event currency.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea to improve the RPP prizes. And it might even be a good idea to reintroduce some of the grand prize buildings from the previous events as part of the spread. But it can't be a replacement for that initial building or no one's going to purchase the RPP. Not with the other 'prizes'.

So then we're back to a price increase if they're offering the older grand prize buildings at the outset. Since this is the first time they've done the RPP (at least in Elvenar), they're going to be looking at whether/how well it sells before they think about making 'improvements'.

Would you be willing to pay 3000 diamonds for Rise of Phoenix? Comparatively, the Red Forest offers 6900/6900 at ch 18; the Rise of Phoenix offers 10900/27000 at ch 18 (numbers are pop/culture). Per square, we're looking at RF=767/767, RoP=545/1350. Would it be worth it to you to pay twice as much in diamonds for the building? Realistically it has to be understood that they are in business to make money so the result of asking for a building that's better than the Giant Snail Palace that already sells for 3000 diamonds when they're offering a better building for half price now is, logically, that they increase the cost of the RPP.

And if they aren't offering the older grand prize buildings at the outset, then they're offering them in addition to the initial building that sells the RPP for them. So, again, that necessitates a price increase on their end. Or setting it out at 500 stardust. And I don't know anyone who gets 500 event points without spending diamonds currently. Who knows, maybe they would consider that to be the additional cost and still offer the RPP at 1500 diamonds.
 

Qybyrn

Member
I'm not saying you are wrong, but you are thinking about this from the context of a chapter 18 city when you compare previous event large culture buildings to the Red Forest. Starting about chapter 15 the diamond based culture buildings become much better, but honestly they are rip off before then because you will outgrow them too fast to justify spending thousands of diamonds.

Especially the first 12 chapters or so I greatly preferred larger culture buildings, because I get a much bigger bump from neighborly help. I wasn't in a large/active FS until chapter 10, and my world map wasnt as large as it it now. Having the great auction was a blessing, because as long as it was helped I was in full bonus. I actually still prefer having a 2-3 large culture only buildings to reliably know which buildings will get help first so I know which buildings to cast EE on. If you have a bunch of more efficient but smaller culture buildings (3x3, 2x3) I'm not sure its as predictable to go 5+ buildings deep on the EE. If you could somehow quantify and factor in the bonus from neighborly help (1 person helping the Great Auction brings the same culture as almost 4 people helping a glitter tree) I think the larger buildings would be on par with smaller ones, and way more beneficial to anyone who receives limited neighborly help per day.

I sold my herds gathering before teleport scrolls were introduced, I outgrew it and didn't have the RRs to upgrade it and Great Auction. I wish I still had one (and at least one rise of phoenix).

For growing cities, which I'm guessing constitutes a high percent of their sales, the ability to pay a 2-3k diamonds, get the current royal prizes plus 1 larger culture building which can grow with you is something I think a lot of people would purchase. Technically and at chapter 16+ I think you are correct, but practically for anyone else larger culture with the potential to level with you are very attractive.
 
Last edited:

OIM20

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you meant at the very end there. My English isn't always the best, so maybe I'm just missing it. It happens sometimes.

At any rate, we agree then that there would be a definite price increase with the inclusion of the larger buildings?

If so, another question: should the RPP always include a larger building, or would there be a benefit in having a 1500 diamond RPP one event with prizes comparable to this event and then in the following event have a 3000 RPP where there are two buildings available?
Could there be the current RPP format but, as how Inno offers a "buy diamonds, get builder" promo at the completion of a workshop upgrade research on the tech tree (at least in early chapters and before the builder's hut is maxed out), when the player claims the prize at 280 stardust, a screen pops up that offers them the option of paying diamonds to get an additional, older building?

Before the Elvarian Games event, in my Harandar city I was offered the opportunity to purchase the Sharkapalooza and the Crab Hotel Deluxe buildings. It just popped up one day. I didn't (glad of it, since I won them in the event and would have felt cheated), but the option was there for I think twelve hours? Maybe longer, but it wasn't too long.

What I'm suggesting here is that sort of time-limited offer, but one that is only available when the player reaches 280 stardust (or whatever it's called that event). So the RPP would still sell for 1500 diamonds, and only players who reached the 280 point or better would be "aware"* that there was an additional building on offer - and only then through the pop up sale.

Inno already uses variables to determine how sales get placed in front of players, so this option would only take advantage of an existing system. This method allows Inno to increase the price of the RPP without doing so for players who will not reach the point with the second building and/or do not want the second building being offered.

*What I mean by "aware" is that the additional building would not show in the official RPP prize listing. When the option to purchase popped up, it would say something along the lines of, "Congratulations! You've reached the [280 stardust] event milestone! We would like to offer you the opportunity to purchase [old building 1] for [1500] diamonds!" Obviously there would be discussion in the forums, both here and beta, of what the added-cost building would be during the event. That's a given, but players wouldn't see the building in the official list of prizes for the RPP because, technically, it wouldn't be part of it. You'd have to purchase the RPP and reach the 180 stardust milestone to get the offer to purchase the second building, so it's not included in the original RPP and therefore not officially a prize on the RPP track.
The downside of alternating RPP paths, perhaps - and from Inno's perspective, not the player's - is that more players would be inclined to save diamonds over time to spend in the next event.
But as players see that the prizes are varied and they aren't able to save up diamonds as readily as they'd like through free play there are a few actions that could result.

1 - greater cash influx. Obviously, the best pro for Inno, and the option they hope most players will take.

2 - greater game participation. Yes, the Spire; but also Tournaments, when players realize as they want to save their diamonds that they can win those blueprints at the rate of one per week and save at least 300 diamonds each week so long as they can band together with like-minded players.

3 - con: people could leave the game. Many do that now after seeing the game takes more than twelve seconds of dedication, though.

Obviously 2 leads to 1 with many people. The longer you spend playing the game, the more apt you are to want certain aspects of it to happen at an accelerated pace. That could mean more expansions or any of the other dozens of ways Inno has built in for diamonds to be used in the game to speed things along.
I understand your point about earlier chapters wanting better cultural buildings. I personally find some of the early ones that are included in the quest progression to be eyesores. I built only one of those before deciding that I'd just wait until the end of the chapter, decline that quest, and then catch up to getting all the gold and supplies from the quests I'd completed in the interim. This also is important, though, when considering whether to spend diamonds on a building. Regardless of how little culture (1100) that Mysterious Gate Keeper gives, or the Elder Dragon Oracle (2800), as compared to later game buildings (that's still significant where I am in the game), I'm still inclined to want them and want to spend diamonds on them for the aesthetic. I'd love to have a Rise of Phoenix for the same reason.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I would not like a diamond price increase. I paid for the royal prize line this time because I thought overall it was okay. But if it had been twice the price there's no way I would have taken it, even if it had a better building. I am not sure I will get enough for it this time ... I have yet to determine that.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
the problem , is NOT ... will Inno give us better prizes or better stuff to buy,
the problem IS ... if Inno does give this stuff out, where will they quickly NERF
the game elsewhere , thinking that any "good" purchase/prize will imbalance the game.

if you offer a decent bldg for :diamond: and/or $$$$$ , there will always, yes always be
a small group of ppl that will get 10 of them , intentionally trying to imbalance
things in thier favor..... then who suffers ??? all of us, because as the saying says ....

A few bad apples can ruin it for everyone.... eventually the Nerf happens.
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
-sigh- This is why I brought up an increased price. If you give them an idea of where to alter the parameter up front, it's possible they may take your suggestion under advisement. Then, when there's a change to [x] after implementing [idea A] where we suggested the change to [x] be the "price" for the idea, we're neither surprised nor overly upset by such a change.

Hence the several paragraphs under spoiler 1 in post #4. In brief: take advantage of the existing "promotional sales" coding that Inno already uses and apply it to the RPP in order to implement @Qybyrn's idea without irritating @Darielle to the point she doesn't spend diamonds anymore. (i.e.: no price increase to the RPP itself.)

And they can limit quantities by only allowing the purchase of one building. You get one RPP per city per account per event. So, yeah, you can have 10 of them - 1 in each city on one account and 2 in each of 2 cities on a second account. That's your choice. You get one Red Forest per city. Period. Unless there's another one way on down the stardust meter past page 7 (that's as far as I can see as of this typing).
 

ifollowing

New Member
I'm trying to examine the idea critically here, so please don't take this personally. This is meant to analyze its viability.

For comparison, links go to ElvenArchitect:
But what price would be put on the larger buildings? Already the Red Forest's stats for ch 18 (6900/6900) are better than the Giant Snail Palace (6x4, 2900/3200) which sells for 3000 diamonds. Basically, the exclusive building is half the price and nearly 1/3 the size of an already offered building with significantly better stats over time (it's upgradeable). If they're going to offer the chance to purchase old buildings, how much would they increase the diamond price of the Royal Prize Pass?

And it would probably be better business for them to push the building out to the second base or the 11th artifact (280-320 stardust) as that's more dedication to get it. But then, what would be the reason for paying diamonds for the Royal Prize Pass? The building is offered up front as basically the reason to purchase it. In the first 10 artifacts, I'm given:
  • 21,500 T3 in my ch 7 city
  • five 30 min timers
  • 3 CCs
  • 1 pet food
  • one 20 hour timer
  • 1 blueprint
  • five 5 hour timers
  • 2 MM spells
  • 1 Ferris Wheel Galore
To compare, I can produce 21,500 T3 in 18 hours (3831 every 3 hours w/ my 3 current manus; quicker when I level 2 of them up). This is the only variable in the offerings, and it might be worth it to later chapter players who need seeds - what with seed buildings being such a problem - to purchase the RPP if they're offered. But other than the blueprint and the FWG, I can make all of those things, win them in the Spire, or even get the MM spells as prizes for NH (and I do get MM spells that way). And I can win the blueprint - and the MM spells - in the Tourney, so it's really only the FWG.

If there weren't a building on offer at the outset, no one would purchase the RPP for the possible chance that they might perhaps get something good if they manage to get the good will of the RNG and end up with the bonus 100/150/200 event currency in chests so that they don't have to also spend diamonds on event currency.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea to improve the RPP prizes. And it might even be a good idea to reintroduce some of the grand prize buildings from the previous events as part of the spread. But it can't be a replacement for that initial building or no one's going to purchase the RPP. Not with the other 'prizes'.

So then we're back to a price increase if they're offering the older grand prize buildings at the outset. Since this is the first time they've done the RPP (at least in Elvenar), they're going to be looking at whether/how well it sells before they think about making 'improvements'.

Would you be willing to pay 3000 diamonds for Rise of Phoenix? Comparatively, the Red Forest offers 6900/6900 at ch 18; the Rise of Phoenix offers 10900/27000 at ch 18 (numbers are pop/culture). Per square, we're looking at RF=767/767, RoP=545/1350. Would it be worth it to you to pay twice as much in diamonds for the building? Realistically it has to be understood that they are in business to make money so the result of asking for a building that's better than the Giant Snail Palace that already sells for 3000 diamonds when they're offering a better building for half price now is, logically, that they increase the cost of the RPP.

And if they aren't offering the older grand prize buildings at the outset, then they're offering them in addition to the initial building that sells the RPP for them. So, again, that necessitates a price increase on their end. Or setting it out at 500 stardust. And I don't know anyone who gets 500 event points without spending diamonds currently. Who knows, maybe they would consider that to be the additional cost and still offer the RPP at 1500 diamonds.

I do agree to you!
 
Top