Increasing tournament participation?

[Risen Malchiah]

I would love to hear from other players and mages how you handle encouraging tournament participation in your fellowships, particularly in regard to how you approach doing 8 to 10 chests regularly.

In my fellowship, we have "focus" weeks every month or so where everyone is supposed to jump in, but this has had marginal success. Sometimes we make 10 chests. Sometimes we fall short. But each time, about half the members go all out to do 3-4k (sometimes even over 5k) while others do less than 500 points or don't participate at all. Even if we make it, the drain on the top players is so much that the following few weeks end up being recovery weeks with even less participation than if we didn't attempt the focus week.

Are there ways to encourage, cajole or motivate players? Do you institute minimum scores?

We're already a solid fellowship in the top 15 of the server, which makes finding alternative fellowships difficult. Fellowships above us either aren't recruiting or might even have lower average tournament scores (thank you Elvenstats!!!).

Where are all the fellowships where tournaments are a focus and each person averages 1600-2000 points so the work is distributed evenly, making 10 chests every week possible. I know those fellowships exist somewhere and I'd love to know how you manage to keep everyone involved.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Ours is a rather complex system tied to our wonder pool.
Instead of a KP swap thread, we have a spreadsheet where we record all of the from/to numbers for AW donations.
When a player gets a reward chest we take those and put them in the bank. So if you donated 100 KP and got a 15 KP reward we would count that as +85 for your KP balance.

We use the KP bank to reward players with
5 KP for 600 tournament points
10 KP for 900
15 KP for 1200
20 KP for 1500+
We also give 10 KP for 6 FS visits, and 20 KP for 7.
We even hold monthly contests on our website with trivia or other challenges and award KP for those.

It's certainly not something for every FS though, as it does take a lot of work.
Since nov 05 2016 we have
579 wonders upgraded (That's 1.1 wonders per day!)
150,445 KP total
13,835 KP given as rewards

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Do you find that these KP rewards for tournament score translate to greater participation in general, resulting in more tournament chests each week?

We have voluntary KP swap threads. I've read other posts you've had detailing your KP system and it always seemed like a lot of work to keep track of, but it's hard to argue with your results.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Do you find that these KP rewards for tournament score translate to greater participation in general, resulting in more tournament chests each week?

It's hard to say for certain. Since implementing them, we have seen increased tournament participation (on an 8 week 10 chest streak atm) but we have had some players come and go. I do see quite a few scores that just break the threshold the next reward, so it's likely that some players are thinking "Just one more province and I get a bigger bonus"

 

[DeletedUser1108]

We are #8 in Felyndral and I share your issue. It has long seemed to me that we under-perform in tournaments, but I don't choose to try to force any mandatory point levels because I believe it would damage other aspects of our group who are used to me NOT telling them what to do. I have tried to gradually change the zeitgeist each time I add a new player and we now average 8, but still only pull 10's when I organize an effort with plenty (2 weeks) of advance notice. It works out to once every couple of months. I suppose I should be content with that, but it seems so easy to do better. If I could just get 1000 from each of our bottom third of scorers, the rest of us would carry the remainder of the weight to 9 and 10's every week. I had hoped the rewards themselves would eventually provide sufficient incentive, but alas, that hasn't happened. I have no interest in parting with those averaging less than 1000, so I guess I'll just have to accept that we aren't going to be 10 chest regulars.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I have tried to gradually change the zeitgeist each time I add a new player and we now average 8, but still only pull 10's when I organize an effort with plenty (2 weeks) of advance notice. It works out to once every couple of months. I suppose I should be content with that, but it seems so easy to do better. If I could just get 1000 from each of our bottom third of scorers, the rest of us would carry the remainder of the weight to 9 and 10's every week.

That's actually pretty good. We give about 4 weeks notice with reminders before it starts and even avoid coinciding with events like FA, but we still have players who do 30 points, or 1 round and then stop. It's like pulling teeth to get some players involved, even after reminding everyone that 135 kp x 25 players = a whopping 3375 kp. Many of those players continue to do daily visits, which in my mind actually take longer than catering or autofighting a few provinces a day. It boggles my mind.

I don't want to tell people how to play, but when some players' inaction makes things significantly more difficult for everyone else, it is a struggle. There's no room now for having casual players mixed with more growth-oriented players, I suppose.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

We have a minimum score rule, though it is rarely enforced. Its mostly in place for someone who goes 3-4 weeks straight without really participating.
I think the real answer is what you already know. Kick those people, and talk to other similarly-ranked fellowships. It might be that you've got 10 performers, and another top 15 FS has 10 performers, and merging makes more sense.

I find that unless I'm having direct message conversations with the slacking player, and they either confirm or deny a willingness to participate, sending FS-wide chats or messages just don't get internalized. And then either the person understands the value of getting 2 more chests of rewards X 25, or they just don't care.

I don't want to tell people how to play...

I hear you, but I'd suppress that instinct. Some people want a higher-intensity/higher-achieving gaming experience. If you make it clear that your FS is going to have that experience, you should feel comfortable enforcing it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

One option is to find a similar FS to yours that is more casual with tournaments that has a few spots open. Talk to that AM and see if they'll take a player who is a good visitor but uninterested in tournaments. Having a spot ready takes some the sting out of removing a player.
Also, if you are sure of the outcome, put a 300 point minimum to a vote in your FS. Then 600, then 1K. If you go slow with it that can work.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I like the idea of putting a minimum score to a vote. Chances are those who participate will vote yes and those who don't participate won't respond at all, leading me to wonder whether they ever read the msg at all. That is common.since those same players are the ones who consistently seem to ignore group messages for both tournaments and FA.

Removing casual players may not be an option for me. I'm a mage, but all those players have been there longer than I have. And our AM has been missing since last summer.

 

[SoggyShorts]

our AM has been missing since last summer.

Support can remove them for you if you put in a ticket. Having mandatory minimums for tournaments might be a tough pill for members to swallow if 10% of your players haven't even logged in in 9 months.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i run a clan in one game and an alliance in another here they are called fellowships..i cut inactive players in my other games and do not have a required amount of any thing in those games (other than actual game play and manners) and we always seem to win..i can't speak for others but for me, i would not join a fellowship that makes you grow then tries to scoop you up after the fact vs helps noobs grow and learn and develop loyalty and a desire to repay the help, yes i'm new here but the theme i go by is players that need to be told what to do never make good team mates

 

[DeletedUser9601]

yes i'm new here but the theme i go by is players that need to be told what to do never make good team mates

I'm curious what the other games were. Because I think one of the main difficulties of Elvenar is that a lot of information is not obvious to new players (and even seasoned players).
In a lot of other games, its really obvious that you're going to perform poorly if you try to fight with a knife versus an assault rifle. No one needs that explained in CS:GO or CoD. But you will perform poorly in Elvenar if you don't orient your buildings the right way, or don't focus on your boosted goods, or if you connect your pure culture buildings to roads, or a million other little things.

In those other games, there's immediate feedback when what you do doesn't work. You lose the match, the fight, the war, whatever. In Elvenar (and similar games), you rarely "lose." You just don't do as well as others. So there's not the feedback loop (except in a few instances like FAs, and 10-chest runs). So sometimes a little hand-holding is appropriate.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

I'm curious what the other games were. Because I think one of the main difficulties of Elvenar is that a lot of information is not obvious to new players (and even seasoned players).
In a lot of other games, its really obvious that you're going to perform poorly if you try to fight with a knife versus an assault rifle. No one needs that explained in CS:GO or CoD. But you will perform poorly in Elvenar if you don't orient your buildings the right way, or don't focus on your boosted goods, or if you connect your pure culture buildings to roads, or a million other little things.

In those other games, there's immediate feedback when what you do doesn't work. You lose the match, the fight, the war, whatever. In Elvenar (and similar games), you rarely "lose." You just don't do as well as others. So there's not the feedback loop (except in a few instances like FAs, and 10-chest runs). So sometimes a little hand-holding is appropriate.

that sort of makes my point that fellowships should train up newer players..i understand why some would not want to as this game has much smaller numbers for a group at 25 where i run 120 and a 40 member alliance in my combat games..again speaking for myself the layout for the buildings seems rather obvious to me for max production, keeping population and culture at the correct amounts..especially only letting you expand 5 by 5 at a pop makes you have to plan ahead for proper growth

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

p.s. what i mean by having to be told what to do is having mandatory trades amounts and such to be a member in a fellowship

 

[Risen Malchiah]

that sort of makes my point that fellowships should train up newer players.

I'm all for that and in our case some of our lower ranked members consistently outperform some of our more advanced players week to week. I don't know if the more advanced players are just burned out, or lost interest or whatever. I'd much rather have a new player who is eager and jumps in whenever they can than a tired inactive advanced player whose only value is adding to the score of the fellowship.

But there also comes a point when it's nice to have the fellowship at a minimum level of growth to help contribute. There's only so much that can be done if a fellowship is constantly training really new players. There are hundreds of fellowships more appropriate for that.

 

[HJK84]

In our FS. I'm the only one that goes full out on all Tournaments.
I tell/encourage everyone, to at least cater or do 1 fight, so they can partake from my "efforts"
Some do more, which helps. I aim for 4 Chest each week. Averaging 3.4k pts each week (thx to ElvenStats)
If we're missing a tad to claim 4th Chest, AM does what he can to get it done.
Some people try more for certain Tournaments, due to Relics they require for X reasons.

I suppose, it has to start from the beginning. The Overview of you FS has to explain expectations, wants and needs of your goal as a FS.
If that's clear, then the people who join or the ones who don't respect it, should get the boot, ez pz!

But, if down the line AM and a few decide; hey, lets start hunting tournaments to get 10 chests. Well, that might be hard to make everyone else in FS swallow. It can be done of course, with some conversations.
Worse case, some leave to find a new home for their play style. While others join for the same reason.

Hardest part is losing people you call friends

 

[Risen Malchiah]

In our FS. I'm the only one that goes full out on all Tournaments.
I tell/encourage everyone, to at least cater or do 1 fight, so they can partake from my "efforts"
Some do more, which helps. I aim for 4 Chest each week. Averaging 3.4k pts each week (thx to ElvenStats)

You deserve better. It's very kind of you to let others piggyback on your efforts, but surely you'd be happier if more people contributed so your efforts were paid back with even greater reward, especially now that more KP is at stake. 10 chests = 135 kp which is a massive 3375 if 25 people are involved. If others did even half of what you do, you'd clear 10 chests nearly every week.

I suppose, it has to start from the beginning. The Overview of you FS has to explain expectations, wants and needs of your goal as a FS... But, if down the line AM and a few decide; hey, lets start hunting tournaments to get 10 chests. Well, that might be hard to make everyone else in FS swallow. It can be done of course, with some conversations.

Having a stated purpose or goal is the ideal way to go about it, hopefully attracting like-minded players. The problem we have is that we seem to have evolved over time to slowly increase our expectations based on various conversations after many expressed interest in pushing higher. The problem comes with the players who didn't follow this trend, yet are still good daily visit players who don't do anything else. Essentially, they are good people, just not helpful for group goals.

 

[Deborah M]

The FS I'm in "requires" 1000 points every other week. The stated goal is 8 chests one week 10 chests the next and sometimes we do better than 8 on the off week. I don't think that should be a problem for players in top FS. If you think about it if 25 people do 1600 then you get all 10 chests. That also should not be a problem in a top FS especially since obviously some will do much more. I don't see any reason why a top FS shouldn't have set expectations that go along with the benefits. I think that if I have made that commitment I would hope the others have also. This week our AM sent a reminder of the 1000 minimum expectation and today 20 have 1000 or more with a couple of others I think will make it. I appreciate that since I am wiping out my resources aiming higher so we all get the 10th chest we are working on as of today.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Well, I brought up the issue of some players doing the bare minimum while others strive to complete 10 chests and it resulted in a discussion that was more heated than expected. Some of the less active players are longstanding players who dont want to be told what to do and I have to respect that. At least now it's clear that there are fundamentally different playstyles in the mix. It seems unfortunately there is no solution other than staying with a fellowship I genuinely like while accepting less than optimal results or finding a tournament-focused fellowship with an available slot.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I wish they would quit using squad size for it, I am at 2718 which takes 2 weeks of training to do 1 Or at least give us the option to turn off all the optionals...

That were forced on us that did them, before they switched to the current tourney format.