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    Your Elvenar Team

Inno's dealing with push accounts needs drastic improvement discussion

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Realistically I would see this happen, as I have two of the push accounts associate in my map area, and I would see if they score so high in tournaments as they have in the previous 6 months. I track them and have been doing so.

So back to the topic.
 

DeletedUser7527

Guest
There is a distinct difference between push account(s) and alternate accounts as has been clarified by Inno. Alternate accounts are allowed under Inno rules. A push account is an account that makes it to AWs for example and stops progression simply to feed the main's AW.
While I do not support people who have push accounts; it does not bother me in the slightest that they exist for a plethora of reasons:
1. It's their time and money
2. Their pushing does not affect my enjoyment of the game
3. All the "reasons" given on why they are bad; FA, tournaments, ranking, etc are irrelevant to me. I don't have to be number one in any of those to get enjoyment from the game.
4. If action is taken it is taken... I know I have no right to know what (if any) action has been taken against those who break the rules.

Outside of a few people in-game (who also reply on the forums) I have never once had someone discuss pushing with me and how it hurts their game. If someone were to talk to me about it I would tell them what I just said: Doesn't bother me.. if it bothers you do all you can by reporting it and move on. Letting the actions of others dictate your enjoyment of the game seems like a waste of an experience to me. I have played many games; mainly MMOs; where gold farmers are rampant and people use them to get the best of the best gear/loot/etc... but that doesn't affect how I play the game.

So to address the actual topic of this thread: Since you have no idea what exactly is being done by Inno in regards to these accounts - this thread seems pretty much useless because you will not change their policy because it cannot be changed for legal reasons. So maybe instead of creating a thread that will accomplish nothing, but to retread the same thing over and over.... you focus on something you can control - your own game. (Not meaning that to sound snarky, but rather...realistic)
Ifeel the same as youdo about this it dosent affect me and how i play or enjoy the game so i really dont care if people chet on the game because they are just hurting them selves as far as i see it
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Read Soggy's response to that it does affect you weather you realize it or not.
 

DeletedUser14121

Guest
Read Soggy's response to that it does affect you weather you realize it or not.
The gravity of the moon affects me, too. If I don't care about tides, why should I be forced by others to let it bother me?
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
The gravity of the moon affects me, too. If I don't care about tides, why should I be forced by others to let it bother me?
No one is forcing you to be bothered by anything.(I'm not even sure how someone would go about doing that...)
Comparing the effect that the moon has on you to the effect that cheaters have on an online game is a bit of a reach, no?
I believe if you think about the gravity(ha!) of the situation, you'll see that even a non-ranking free player can be impacted by cheaters that cause diamond players to quit.

Less money for inno= less game for everyone.

I know there's a lot of features that I'd like to see implemented, including many that the devs have said they are working on. Maybe a few thousand dollars more from players that quit over this could have sped the development along.
 
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DeletedUser6219

Guest
Soggy I respect your opinion probably more than anyone's on these boards...with that said.... your last "point" regarding players who have left because of pushers is without merit or anything but anecdotal proof. I could counter your argument by stating...with easily verifying by visiting a lot of the push accounts...and see the thousands they have spent on the game. Heck I know one on Sinya who spent over 5k in a month. Meanwhile the vast majority of people who complain about pushers are also the ones who snub their noses at anyone who buys diamonds. So...if we lose the pushers... Inno loses thousands of profit.
I find this entire thread completely redundant as the other ones the past year. People cheat. People get bored and leave. People get mad about perceived problem A, B, or C and rage quit. I lost at least a dozen friends because of the trader changes...and have never heard a peep from any friends about their anger over pushers.... even when the subject is brought up; It's usually a "meh...whatever." We will always disagree on this as I think...like most things "drama" on these forums is being blown way out of proportion. With that being said... I am unsubbing from this topic as it annoys me to see the same thing over and over and over.
 

DeletedUser13467

Guest
So to address the actual topic of this thread: Since you have no idea what exactly is being done by Inno in regards to these accounts - this thread seems pretty much useless because you will not change their policy because it cannot be changed for legal reasons. So maybe instead of creating a thread that will accomplish nothing, but to retread the same thing over and over.... you focus on something you can control - your own game. (Not meaning that to sound snarky, but rather...realistic)
I find this entire thread completely redundant as the other ones the past year. People cheat. People get bored and leave. People get mad about perceived problem A, B, or C and rage quit. I lost at least a dozen friends because of the trader changes...and have never heard a peep from any friends about their anger over pushers.... even when the subject is brought up; It's usually a "meh...whatever."

If you keep making good points, I won't be able to make any bad ones :) Join the wrong side!

Note you have been put on my Ignore list probably one of those push accounts hoping to get the thread closed.:p
That's funny, sad but true, they should still be banned and there account deleted.

Rebels and rude players playing player-police are who need deleted :)
 
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Pheryll

Set Designer
No one is forcing you to be bothered by anything.(I'm not even sure how someone would go about doing that...)
Comparing the effect that the moon has on you to the effect that cheaters have on an online game is a bit of a reach, no?
I believe if you think about the gravity(ha!) of the situation, you'll see that even a non-ranking free player can be impacted by cheaters that cause diamond players to quit.

I think @Whoamitocomplain's comparison was a little jocular in response to @jps54's use of "weather" instead of "whether"
 

DeletedUser3122

Guest
Both and banning and removing main accounts that receive the push

How could you possibly prove it? In my FS, I "push" 1:4 trades at new members and sometimes established players, and I assure you, they are not my own "push" accounts.

Maybe if all logins have the same IP address, but both my husband & I play the game. We almost never push goods to each other, but we have a few times. I have a 2nd account in my own FS, to see the difference between an elven & human city for myself. I rarely push goods to that account either. In fact, I push goods to people I don't know, in my own FS, more than my own or husband's. I've even pushed goods to neighbors!

I have seen one FS in Arendyll that all players are the same person - they all share one common name. I personally don't see a problem with that. I think it's strange and don't understand it. But I don't think it's a problem. I'm not sure how anyone could "game" the system doing so either.

Why is this a problem? I've searched the forums and Inno does not have a policy that you can't have more than one account in one world. I've seen moderators say it's allowed.

All the "reasons" given on why they are bad; FA, tournaments, ranking, etc are irrelevant to me. I don't have to be number one in any of those to get enjoyment from the game.

The only way any FS can be #1 in FA is by using diamonds. You might be able to push goods to members that are your own, but it's definitely not enough to be in the top 3 FSs that get the biggest prizes. So I also don't see a problem here. I think it's the same for tourneys.

You can't push supplies at any other account to make troops. You can only push goods and KP.

And if the rumor I heard is true that Inno plans no more city size increases

Timon said it himself in a video on Facebook (not Youtube). I'm not sure if the FB address to the post will work here, but here it is.

 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
How could you possibly prove it? In my FS, I "push" 1:4 trades at new members and sometimes established players, and I assure you, they are not my own "push" accounts.
4:1 trades in your FS is not pushing, no one is bothered by that.
Having 25 dummy accounts that do nothing other than donate KP to your wonder is pushing.
There are players that are getting 600+ KP put into their wonders every single week for months on end without returning anything to the other accounts. Those are the players that should be targeted.
The only way any FS can be #1 in FA is by using diamonds.
That's not the only way- some fellowships have 24 members and use the 25th slot to rotate dummy accounts in and out after they have made loads of badges. In 6 days a dummy account dedicated to nothing but making badges(and donating KP to your wonder) could easily make enough badges to solo a lot of bottomless pit rounds.
So they cook all the badges, join the FS, dump them all in the pit, and leave. Repeat x 25+ dummy accounts.

I think you mentioned finishing in 8th place? If you had a dummy FS of 25 and each account made just 6 of each badge, that's 7,500 more points-- What place would you be in then?

The FA still has many other issues, perhaps enough that players might ignore the problem with push accounts, but I think it's better if inno addresses it before they add any more competitive aspects to the game.(and even if they don't)
 
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DeletedUser7527

Guest
i understand what alot of you all are saying for nyself i dont care if im in first place or have the number 1 fs im just here to have fun and play the game and enjoy myself and get a break away from the real world but for those of you that are more competive i understand why you all are upset and yes somthing needs to give i wish ou all the best and happy gaming
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Dear Gods, Soggy's right. I can't believe I'm saying it, and I fear the World will end at any moment, but he's right. :eek:

We really are all affected by this, and going forward every time we see or make a suggestion for additions to the game, we have to ask ourselves what the potential for exploitation is, and what further imbalance it may create, and whether or not we want to have to deal with it.
 

DeletedUser13467

Guest
We really are all affected by this, and going forward every time we see or make a suggestion for additions to the game, we have to ask ourselves what the potential for exploitation is, and what further imbalance it may create, and whether or not we want to have to deal with it.

Open Pandora's box. Enjoy the wonders. Look out the window at your pecious rebellion being crushed.

That's not the only way- some fellowships have 24 members and use the 25th slot to rotate dummy accounts in and out after they have made loads of badges. In 6 days a dummy account dedicated to nothing but making badges(and donating KP to your wonder) could easily make enough badges to solo a lot of bottomless pit rounds.
So they cook all the badges, join the FS, dump them all in the pit, and leave. Repeat x 25+ dummy accounts.

Is this currently a violation? And if so, what's to stop three fellowships from forming an alliance? The smaller two FS assisting the main FS, all with seperate ip address and real members?
 
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DeletedUser3507

Guest
Pushing is only by the same person having like 12+ push accounts feeding the main account.

I would give an example but don't want to be in trouble for doing so.

My favorite example always has pushers in the top 40 on tourneys every tourney.
 
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DeletedUser3122

Guest
Having 25 dummy accounts that do nothing other than donate KP to your wonder is pushing.

Ok but AWs even have their limits. You can't upgrade them beyond lvl 25 no?

There are players that are getting 600+ KP put into their wonders every single week for months on end without returning anything to the other accounts. Those are the players that should be targeted.

Why? I don't get it.

If they go to the effort of logging into all those accounts after having made them and give it to their own accounts - well I guess I don't see the problem. They're still working hard for it. They may make more goods etc. than me but even though you say it affects my (and others' games) I guess I don't care. I long ago resolved in myself that I'd never be able to compete with (nor want to compete with) diamond players. I'm rank 124 atm which I think is pretty darn good considering I don't use push accounts or buy diamonds to get a higher score or win tourneys or FAs.

I do think though - the people doing this are suffering. They have a type of gambling addiction in addition to not having a life outside the game. It must take hours a day to maintain push accounts to feed the main account. I think they must be very lonely and not feel they are worth anything else in life - in order to feel they have that much worth in a game. Statistics show that these kind of players are what game companies rely on to pay the bills. These players are usually deeply in debt due to the game. That's gotta hurt.

That's not the only way- some fellowships have 24 members and use the 25th slot to rotate dummy accounts in and out after they have made loads of badges.

That is still evidence they are working hard to make badges no matter which account they're using. They didn't get those badges with no effort. Inno allows as many accounts as they want. Making badges isn't pushing. But I also think this is why Inno has this time block of quitting & joining FSs more than every 24 hours or maybe it's 48 hours I don't remember.

In 6 days a dummy account dedicated to nothing but making badges(and donating KP to your wonder) could easily make enough badges to solo a lot of bottomless pit rounds.

Because I have a 2nd city in my same FS I actually considered doing something like this to help in the FA. I thought about tearing down most things in order to dedicate the account to making badges. I think it's an interesting strategy. But I did find when trying to work out the math, it simply wouldn't work without having some large production buildings in place. You can't even build tons of extra factories and workshops without culture or population - even without AWs, you'd need a lot of residences and larger big culture buildings just to sustain it all.

I think you mentioned finishing in 8th place? If you had a dummy FS of 25 and each account made just 6 of each badge, that's 7,500 more points-- What place would you be in then?

Again it would mean I had 25 cities that I had to set those factories a lot and do a lot of hard work to log in set collect etc.

I just disagree that this is pushing.

I would never do anything like this because of the huge amount of work involved and the top rank isn't worth it to me.

(sorry my comma key blinks in & out)

I still believe some of these FSs use a lot of diamonds because if they aren't then Inno would be taking this more seriously.

I think we need to look to the source of the problem. My main point is not to blame players who will always find the exploits but instead bad game design.
 
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DeletedUser3507

Guest
LVL 30 AW's will be out soon, and yes this is the classic definition of pushing when all the account's feed just 1

And even at lvl 25 10 AW's is some serious points.
 

DeletedUser3122

Guest
(the .. will be in place of my missing commas! I need a new keyboard lol)

Once you reach the top rankings..finish all chapters..have upgraded everything as high as possible..upgrade AWs as high as possible..the only chance of continuing to increase your score is to play in the tourneys and score high..to get the most reward points possible. Because land is finite creates this problem. This causes players to look for exploits. I mean..my score right now is 280k. I'm at the end with nothing else to do except support my FS. I wonder how the heck these guys have scores of almost 600k. It's to remain competitive against each other. Since I'm not competitive..what do I care if they do this nonsense and break their butts on tourneys. I hate tourneys now..and the only reason I do them is to help my members get higher boosts.
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Yes but those with push accounts top out a lot more quickly than "normal" players
 
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