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    Your Elvenar Team

Interesting Psychological Dilemma

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
crackie said:
with pages worth of 0 and 1-star trades
Click to expand...
All I see are 1 star trades, same ""diarehea"", different reason.
I'm not piss'd I see them, I'm piss'd of all the ppl I can't trade with.
Simple filters on the trade screen solve that, yet nothing solves
the completely rediculious 50% trade fee till well into CH 8-9+ .....

"Fair" is thrown around alot, yet whats actually fair isn't what the solution
seems to be. So as a psychological/hypothetical question, try this ...

Trade between 2 players where 1 is "discovered" and the other isn't.
The distance between these 2 players are the same, whats different
is the player that has exposed more "Rings" , will usually be
the player that is further along in the game, and lets face it has
higher levels of goods just in general. We will also assume that
neither has a BTG.

Is it "fair" to force both players to post 1:1 trades with each other ? (no)

Now I understand the Elvenar eddiquitte says "this is a co-op game,
not a pvp game", but it was also designed so that the co-op part is
joining and being in a FS... I wholeheartedly agree within a FS, keep
the trades to 1:1, thats the FS discount basically....
On the other hand The game was designed and allows trades up to
1:8..... Just because some players want to eliminate an economy
environment.... its "unfair" to the devs and detracts from possible
playstyles when artificial limits are imposed where none exsist.

While I might meet anyone 1/2 way reguarding decaying Sentient
goods.... You'll have to meet me 1/2 way on Basic goods.....

Between the inversely unfair trade fee, and the wide possible
difference in Boost %'s.... not to mention actual cost-per-tile
of different resources..... Basic Goods should have NO limits
to allow trades to be more "fair" between players in different
stages of the game.

Now if a chunk of the playerbase continues to use and teach to
use the adjective "fair" , which is subjective, in reguard to a 1:1,
or basically a swap, then lets have the true discussion.......

Lets hash out everything thats already "Unfair" in Elvenar, and
exactly "to whom" its actually unfair to..... either that or lets call
a 1:1 trade what it is....... "even", which is NOT subjective......

Attaching a moral judgement, when as AJ clearly points out....
there can be extenuating circumstances that you don't know
about, speaks more to your morality/ehtics than it does to the
other person who is just doing what the game allows.

In this day/age/century/millenia, Freedom itself is on trial.
Authoritarian views also are as well..... Isn't it time to @least
STOP making moral/ehtical judgements about fellow players
in a dictatorial way ???? Stop bully'n new players, into ignoring
possible ways, (you might not like but the devs design'd into
the game), of potential playstyles....

There are only 2 kinds of trades ......
1) even trades
2) uneven trades

I refuse to attach a moral/ethical judgement to either of those.
 
Last edited:
crackie

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Post whatever star trades you want to your heart’s content! If it’s sitting for days, nobody wants them! The person that decides to flood the trader with them should have to shift through pages of their own unwanted trades too instead of out of sight out of mind. Currently, they flood our trader, but not their own. If you want to post 1 star trades, be my guest. Do you need to post 30 listings of it? No!
 
Tehya1

Tehya1

Well-Known Member
I post 2 star trades for the most part unless I need something that benefits my fs, like spire or tourney catering, or I am stuck in the research tree and remaining stuck means that I can't spend my kp on research. When bigger players in a fs ask me to post 0 or 1 star trades so that my progress will benefit the fs, I will, because my own progress and self sufficiency or lack thereof isn't just about me. My growth and performance in the spire and tourney impact my fa. Posting uneven trades for my own interests, like catering provinces for expansions or research is rare and I always ask or mention why I need them in chat first.
 
Myne

Myne

Oh Wise One
BrinDarby said:
All I see are 1 star trades, same ""diarehea"", different reason.
I'm not piss'd I see them, I'm piss'd of all the ppl I can't trade with.
Simple filters on the trade screen solve that, yet nothing solves
the completely rediculious 50% trade fee till well into CH 8-9+ .....

"Fair" is thrown around alot, yet whats actually fair isn't what the solution
seems to be. So as a psychological/hypothetical question, try this ...

Trade between 2 players where 1 is "discovered" and the other isn't.
The distance between these 2 players are the same, whats different
is the player that has exposed more "Rings" , will usually be
the player that is further along in the game, and lets face it has
higher levels of goods just in general. We will also assume that
neither has a BTG.

Is it "fair" to force both players to post 1:1 trades with each other ? (no)

Now I understand the Elvenar eddiquitte says "this is a co-op game,
not a pvp game", but it was also designed so that the co-op part is
joining and being in a FS... I wholeheartedly agree within a FS, keep
the trades to 1:1, thats the FS discount basically....
On the other hand The game was designed and allows trades up to
1:8..... Just because some players want to eliminate an economy
environment.... its "unfair" to the devs and detracts from possible
playstyles when artificial limits are imposed where none exsist.

While I might meet anyone 1/2 way reguarding decaying Sentient
goods.... You'll have to meet me 1/2 way on Basic goods.....

Between the inversely unfair trade fee, and the wide possible
difference in Boost %'s.... not to mention actual cost-per-tile
of different resources..... Basic Goods should have NO limits
to allow trades to be more "fair" between players in different
stages of the game.

Now if a chunk of the playerbase continues to use and teach to
use the adjective "fair" , which is subjective, in reguard to a 1:1,
or basically a swap, then lets have the true discussion.......

Lets hash out everything thats already "Unfair" in Elvenar, and
exactly "to whom" its actually unfair to..... either that or lets call
a 1:1 trade what it is....... "even", which is NOT subjective......

Attaching a moral judgement, when as AJ clearly points out....
there can be extenuating circumstances that you don't know
about, speaks more to your morality/ehtics than it does to the
other person who is just doing what the game allows.

In this day/age/century/mellinia, Freedom itself is on trial.
Authoritarian views also are as well..... Isn't it time to @least
STOP making moral/ehtical judgements about fellow players
in a dictatorial way ???? Stop bully'n new players, into ignoring
possible ways, (you might not like but the devs design'd into
the game), of potential playstyles....

There are only 2 kinds of trades ......
1) even trades
2) uneven trades

I refuse to attach a moral/ethical judgement to either of those.
Click to expand...

You want some cheese with that whine?
 
Ellarian Ravaroris

Ellarian Ravaroris

Member
Darielle said:
Let me preface this by saying that I am speaking of no one in particular. I would like to get a bigger picture of my own feelings about an incident involving a new player. I was basically an observer. I could have a skewed view of things, and if I do, you would be the ones to tell me. :)

On Elvenar, people are often very kind. I find so many willing to take zero and one star trades in order to help people out. They have big hearts and they want to help, but at what point does having a big heart end and intimidation or even bullying begin? The problem arises when different people have different styles of play, and one side wants to limit their options. (By the way, touché if you decide to turn this into an argument for the freedom of the gougers … yes, I have thought about the irony here. That's why it's titled a psychological dilemma, lol.)

Ok, I'll get down to specifics. I'm a three-star seller. I have been since day one. I just like offering goods to give people a little help, and since I only offer boosts, it doesn't hurt me to pass a little of that boost onto others (and my boosts are not the ones in huge demand … what I wouldn't give for crystal! But I digress …) I have more fun playing this way, and it makes me feel good. It did even when I was new, and I know lots of new players who feel the same way.

However, I would never force others to my way of thinking. I would never say, "You must do three-star trades or I won't trade with you." To me, that's bullying. It's limiting the choices of other players.

But what about the reverse? What about bigger players who refuse to help little ones, especially new fellowship members who do three star trades? Rather, they "insist" on zero, one or two star? They are mostly mid-late game players with millions of goods. They do it with completely good intentions, but when it's aggressive, isn't that a form of coercion, bullying, or intimidation? They are hurting the people they really want to help with, " my way or the highway" tactics. They are limiting another player's play style and enjoyment of the game, and causing bad feelings when they are trying to do the opposite.

Basically, some people just enjoy offering three star. Why refuse to allow them that enjoyment by punishing them and refusing to take them?

You get my point, so I won't drone on (as I tend to do). :) Thoughts? Go ahead and rip ... I know there are two sides to this and I'm trying to understand both.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone should be forbidden or allowed whatever in this game as this is a game. I do believe that it is all about a good fit in regards to fellowships. Finding the right group of people to play with. Aligning yourself with players of the same beliefs or rules you think you can follow. Or starting your own fellowship if a good fit can't be found. However, how one does trades outside of a fellowship should be their choice. Personally I have helped many but for the most part I post 2 star, straight across trades. If anyone wants something different they can ask me and I will oblige if I can. If anyone posts something different than I will choose to take it if I like it or leave it if I don't like it. No one truly can be a bully you into specific trades as this is a game. I play it to relax, not stress. My belief is that many do so for relaxation or getting their mind of current things in their Lifes. Everyone should have the freedom to trade the way they want however, not get bent out of shape if bad trades don't get picked up as everyone also has the freedom to choose which trades they want to pick up.
 
Ellarian Ravaroris

Ellarian Ravaroris

Member
Myne said:
You want some cheese with that whine?
Click to expand...
GR10_AW1_Runeshard.png


That was deep...lol
 
Henroo

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Clusseau said:
One view that doesnt seem explicit in replies so far;
Perhaps the person against 3-star trades is simply a poor communicator?

They mean to tell someone that offering such premiums is not necessary,
and they are possibly frustrated that the person giving away their goods does not seem to understand?
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I am pretty advanced in all 3 of my cities. And I have millions of goods everywhere. I clean out the trader of fellowship trades once or twice a day, no matter what. But I feel bad about taking 3 star trades from FS members, Simply because I have so much. I don't need for them to give up more than they get. But on the other hand, the only way I can help them is by taking the overly generous trades they have posted. It is truly a Catch-22 situation.
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence

Fira18

New Member
Our Fellowship encourages trading and if required by a Lower than Chapter 5 member who is in need of goods to message requirements in chat and post even if it is less than 2-3 stars. I usually post 3 star trades for large amounts due to the large number of trading partners within my discovered provinces. This will ensure that they are picked up quickly. We also encourage cross tier trades within our Fellowship as required by Research in the higher Chapters.
Whether someone takes a trade or not is entirely up to them. We are not pushy, if someone gets pushy, they get one warning and any further altercations they would be turfed.
 
Ellarian Ravaroris

Ellarian Ravaroris

Member
Henroo said:
I agree with this. I am pretty advanced in all 3 of my cities. And I have millions of goods everywhere. I clean out the trader of fellowship trades once or twice a day, no matter what. But I feel bad about taking 3 star trades from FS members, Simply because I have so much. I don't need for them to give up more than they get. But on the other hand, the only way I can help them is by taking the overly generous trades they have posted. It is truly a Catch-22 situation.
Click to expand...
So that is your takeaway - you are helping. Yet, the other player has the freedom of what trades they want to post. You never know, one or two of their 3 Star trades might've already been picked up by a smaller player that benefited from that 3 Star trade. You're just picking up what others couldn't pick up. Like if someone posts 10 of the same 3star trades and 2 were picked up by the smaller player and you got the other 8. The possibilities are endless. But in the end you are doing exactly what you want to do and that is help. :)
 
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