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    Your Elvenar Team

Is Innogames no longer purging inactive players?

DeletedUser964

Guest
Is Innogames no longer purging inactive players?

I started this game over 2 months ago. I posted a thread about a lack of active players on 21 Sept. The inactive players I complained about then are still inactive. Not a single inactive player has done anything. The buildings under construction in September are still under constructions today (11 Nov). Obviously the players have not logged in since then. In a radius of 5 squares from my town, I seemingly have 2-3 other active players. I guess adding a new world is more important that keeping the existing worlds viable.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
I agree, but what we really want is for them to replace the inactive players. On beta, they have been purging players and people are playing in utter wastelands of nothing but desert without a neighbor for miles around. At least the inactives let you go by and get coins from them. When there is nothing, you are totally at a huge disadvantage.

But yes....how about we stop opening worlds and fill the ones we have with players? And why wasn't that done? Do they have plans to keep on opening up new worlds without taking care of the existing ones?
 

Insanity Talisman

Guest
Same here; a vast expanse of inactives surround my city. One of my fellows recently experienced his first purge, though, so maybe they'll get around to my neck of the woods eventually.
 

DeletedUser1094

Guest
I have inactive players in my fellowship and I keep track of their activeness I give them 5 days then they are gone. One problem is you have to expand which takes time before you gt near a good active fellowship before you find good players but they keep joining and never return this game is diffidently a game for retirees like myself.
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
If possible, yes, you do want an active neighborhood. But you really really don't want a purged neighborhood! At every level, it's important to be able to visit neighbors for the coins. The further along you get, the more important it is. At some point, city survival depends on daily visits to active and inactive members.

We're not sure why Inno is finding it important to start new worlds rather than insert players into existing worlds. Perhaps it's less intimidating? Elvenar is set up so that it's virtually impossible to catch up to players who have been playing longer, so a "new" world makes rank competitive.

It seems unlikely that they'll solve the trading problem caused by inactive members, so finding a compatible fellowship is important.
 
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DeletedUser1094

Guest
If possible, yes, you do want an active neighborhood. But you really really don't want a purged neighborhood! At every level, it's important to be able to visit neighbors for the coins. The further along you get, the more important it is. At some point, city survival depends on daily visits to active and inactive members.

We're not sure why Inno is finding it important to start new worlds rather than insert players into existing worlds. Perhaps it's less intimidating? Elvenar is set up so that it's virtually impossible to catch up to players who have been playing longer, so a "new" world makes rank competitive.

It seems unlikely that they'll solve the trading problem caused by inactive members, so finding a compatible fellowship is important.
First you did a 180 from your first complaint about inactive players. Secondly, if you are right about needing the empty towns to collect coins then you do not need Fellowships they become redundant just go around once a day collect coins from empty towns as for trades you are offered to build whatever product you need therefore trading is again redundant. Offering new worlds is the hook Inno games offers players "Get them hook on playing, building, receiving like offering a mouse a piece of cheese in all areas of the maze. The mouse will go after each piece of cheese; thus offer them new worlds and they will come."

I have just started my third world this time I will go it alone, build what I need now that I understand a few of the tricks and what bogs a new player down. Avoiding those Bog downs will allow me to enjoy the building that much more. We all have forgotten to ask the main question at the end of the game what is the payoff ? A game without a payoff is and becomes a dead game. i.e.: I finished playing a game, match game on Facebook in the end of that game which I played a few weeks and when it was over the game asked me if i wanted to start over this was a dead game I removed the app.

Anyway we look at this game it does have many issues I wouldn't call them problems but issues that could be fixed but they don't wish to. I do believe that Inno Games does add new aspects to their games I am very surprised there is no PvP portion to this game this would end mass players from exiting the game maybe Inno will add PvP in the future. These type of games do one thing the 'evolve over time' I guess we just have to deal with the issues we see improvements could take place and just play the game.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
Nine Near Neighbors

I'm doing some deep thinking about the "best" way to optimize the World Map.
  • Removing players, who have been inactive for 30+ days, and replacing them with new players is a necessary, but not sufficient, part of the neighborhood optimization puzzle.
  • "Inactive" does not currently include cities that are sponsored by premium accounts, nor cities which have completed the 3rd chapter of their development, so they'll remain on the map forever, even if they are dead.
  • The world map is populated in successive hexagonal rings, and each ring starts with the upper right vertex.
  • If you look locally and consider both Cities and Relic Sectors, successive rings have 1, 0, 6, 0, 12, cities, with the general pattern that each successive even numbered ring will contain 6 more cities.
  • InnoGames already has a mechanism for limiting the number of neighborhood trading partners to 200, so they obviously have some mechanism for counting nearby cities.
  • Premium and chapter III cities that are inactive would not be abandoned, but they WOULD be archived, and removed from the World Map. If ever they returned, they would be assigned to an empty slot that had the same nearby relics.
  • IF FEWER than 9 of the nearest 18 cities (in the 2nd and 4th rings) are populated, then THAT city should receive a priority when similar (same near relics) city slots are abandoned in the interior of the map.
If the Nine Near Neighbors concept seems attractive, because it DOES mean that you'll have to (get to) pack up have move to a new neighborhood, then I'll go into more details about how such moves might be accomplished, from a programming point of view.

To briefly state the order of consideration, when a city is eligible and a slot is available:
  • All cities on a diagonal from the upper left to the lower right have identical nearby relics. For odd numbered optimization passes, cities at the top and bottom ends of the diagonals would be shifted toward the center of that diagonal. The nearby relics would be identical, but the names of the neighbors would change.
  • Every 9th city in each horizontal row has identical nearby relics. For even numbered optimization passes every 9th city, at the left and right end of the horizontal rows, would be shifted toward the center of that row. The nearby relics would be identical, but the names of the neighbors would change.
In summary:
  • Cities that are active, but isolated, would be shifted toward the center of the map. Their neighbors would change, but the nearby relics would be identical.
  • Returning players would be placed on the fringes of the map, but in a city slot (there are only 9 unique combinations) that matches their boosted relics.
  • New players would be placed on the fringes of the map.
 
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DeletedUser627

Guest
First you did a 180 from your first complaint about inactive players."
Yes, but this first post was written months ago, before we had fellowships. My neighborhood of inactives meant that I had no trade goods available.
"Secondly, if you are right about needing the empty towns to collect coins then you do not need Fellowships they become redundant just go around once a day collect coins from empty towns as for trades you are offered to build whatever product you need therefore trading is again redundant. "
The more coins, the better! And, yes, we can all build all 9 goods, but producing the non-boosted goods is so slow...trading with fellowship partners makes for enjoyable mutual progress.
 
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DeletedUser626

Guest
Nine Near Neighbors

I'm doing some deep thinking about the "best" way to optimize the World Map.
  • Removing players, who have been inactive for 30+ days, and replacing them with new players is a necessary, but not sufficient, part of the neighborhood optimization puzzle.
  • "Inactive" does not currently include cities that are sponsored by premium accounts, nor cities which have completed the 3rd chapter of their development, so they'll remain on the map forever, even if they are dead.
  • The world map is populated in successive hexagonal rings, and each ring starts with the upper right vertex.
  • If you look locally and consider both Cities and Relic Sectors, successive rings have 1, 0, 6, 0, 12, cities, with the general pattern that each successive even numbered ring will contain 6 more cities.
  • InnoGames already has a mechanism for limiting the number of neighborhood trading partners to 200, so they obviously have some mechanism for counting nearby cities.
  • Premium and chapter III cities that are inactive would not be abandoned, but they WOULD be archived, and removed from the World Map. If ever they returned, they would be assigned to an empty slot that had the same nearby relics.
  • IF FEWER than 9 of the nearest 18 cities (in the 2nd and 4th rings) are populated, then THAT city should receive a priority when similar (same near relics) city slots are abandoned in the interior of the map.
If the Nine Near Neighbors concept seems attractive, because it DOES mean that you'll have to (get to) pack up have move to a new neighborhood, then I'll go into more details about how such moves might be accomplished, from a programming point of view.

To briefly state the order of consideration, when a city is eligible and a slot is available:
  • All cities on a diagonal from the upper left to the lower right have identical nearby relics. For odd numbered optimization passes, cities at the top and bottom ends of the diagonals would be shifted toward the center of that diagonal. The nearby relics would be identical, but the names of the neighbors would change.
  • Every 9th city in each horizontal row has identical nearby relics. For even numbered optimization passes every 9th city, at the left and right end of the horizontal rows, would be shifted toward the center of that row. The nearby relics would be identical, but the names of the neighbors would change.
In summary:
  • Cities that are active, but isolated, would be shifted toward the center of the map. Their neighbors would change, but the nearby relics would be identical.
  • Returning players would be placed on the fringes of the map, but in a city slot (there are only 9 unique combinations) that matches their boosted relics.
  • New players would be placed on the fringes of the map.
I have an active fellowship member with a city on the edge border of the map. there are no cities south of her, and it has been like that from the day she started this game. (not a purge)
I think that is very hard for her playing experience. I hope that situation is improved in the future.
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
This seems another one of those questions about the variance between what Inno promises and what they deliver. Namely, ease of play and goods trading.

To begin, for strong Fellowship players, I don't see that we experience a substantial difference in play with active vs non-active neighbors. Okay, yes, we lose a few potential supplies via the return visit scenario. But we don't lose a significant source of trade.

For example, I'm currently producing 23K boosted goods every 3 hours. Fully 2/3 of it gets traded within my fellowship without difficulty. I pick up my small neighbors trades consistently, as a courtesy, and pay the 50% fee for them. None of them are large enough to accept my trades. So , even without any significant neighborhood trading partners, I can trade for a really large quantity of non-boosted goods without impediment.

BUT we don't see this kind of advantage for players who prefer to play solo, or who are unable to find / fit in an matching fellowship. And, in my estimation, they have a right to insist on the solution, since nothing in the original game offering indicated that cooperative play was mandatory for any success. The net outcome of consolidating active players would be to make solo (non-Fellowship) play plausible. And, of course, keep Inno honest.


I do have a practical question as to what would happen to the Trader if I had 24 fellowship members plus 100 active neighbors posting goods? Can the Trader handle increased volume without truncation?

Finally, if they're not going to correct the player distribution, they need to factor in the loss of supplies. There could be a NH quest (Give NH to xx neighbors) giving supplies as a reward!

NOTE: I support this pro-player position even though it doesn't suit my personal playing style or benefit me. Ahem! I do wish other players would support various pro-player positions based on the same criteria (like the declinable quests issues). Elvenar may not be PvP, but it's often PvD[eveloper].
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
There could be a NH quest (Give NH to xx neighbors) giving supplies as a reward!
I do rather like your Visit The Neighbors quest concept. It also has the nice advantage of being self-limiting, in that you can only buff a given neighbor once every 23 hours. To make the quest less sensitive to sparse neighborhoods, perhaps the quest could be stated as "Visit and buff ALL of your discovered neighbors who have a buffable icon on their Builders Hut, their Cultural Buildings, or their Main Hall."

I have the advantage of a project management background, so it's fairly easy for me to understand that things have to be done in a somewhat organized matter, which means that the developers will often have to delay "simple" items that are inherently part of a greater whole.

More broadly, I think InnoGames is very much aware that the social aspect of the game is still lacking. As an analogy, we've chosen to move into an unfinished house, and we therefore need to cut the builders some slack when we notice that the walls have not yet been painted. I'm quite willing to support InnoGames' philosophy of involving the user community in the development of Elvenar, in a very fundamental way.

The very best argument regarding InnoGames insight into the needs and preferences of the user community is actually a negative one.
http://www.develop-online.net/news/innogames-cans-rising-generals-development/0202493
If InnoGames understood the user community perfectly, then they would never have had to cancel the launch of an unsuccessful product.

It follows, then, that InnoGames is equally unsure exactly how the user community will respond to Elvenar. I don't believe for a moment that we are mere spectators. The developers certainly have a vision regarding what they're trying to accomplish, but we have a lot of influence, and a responsibility to state, clearly and concisely, what it is about the game that we find to be enjoyable, and/or tedious.

I don't want to overload the concept, but InnoGames can only lead where we're willing to follow.
 
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Niabi

Guest
I will admit that much of what i've read above is way over my head! But it does look like Katwijk has a number of good ideas on this frustrating matter. My bottom line is....i just don't see how opening up a new server does anything but make the problems worse!
We have so many available spaces, through reading the forums, talking to friends in game...SO MANY players are raising this issue as a fairly large problem...so why give new players, who have the *potential* to become regulars, FOUR worlds to choose from, versus the TWO which are still reality poorly populated-when you factor in for abandoned cities? (yes, i can see the "why" from Inno's standpoint. New worlds=active players migrate to be top ranked, and are more likely to buy diamonds.) But this strategy is very bad, IMO, in terms of keeping new players, and even mid-level players(such as myself) who become increasingly frustrated and tempted to abandon the game entirely.
I get that advanced cities and such will stay on the map, but i would estimate at least 90% of the MANY long-abandoned cities i see can't have been played for more than a few days, and they've been there since i first started playing months ago! A main hall, builder's hut, maybe 3 residences and up to 5 workshops is usually the MOST progress i see in abandoned cities.
The new worlds will end up with the exact same issue, and the first two worlds, i imagine, until Inno gets off it's collective hineys and *adequately* addresses the issue-will continue down the death spiral of depopulation and consistently active players being pushed farther apart.
Yes, more "seasoned" players in a good FS may not be affected-but new players/players who aren't or don't care to be in an FS will run screaming faster than they already have(in part because they may be unable to reliably FIND any FS to look into joining!).
**INNO GAMES: PLEASE FIND A WAY TO RECONSOLIDATE ACTIVE CITIES BEFORE OPENING MORE NEW WORLDS. THAT IS NOT A GOOD LONG-TERM STRATEGY.**