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    Your Elvenar Team

Is the Tome of Secrets worth it?

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
It is a good Wonder for starting players, like @SuNaya Dark. Build it if you have room. Others will level it for you. Replace it with a better Wonder later on because Prosperity Towers is still a ways off for you.
I agree 100%. Good value for early chapter players. I wouldn't plan on keeping it past Chapter 7 or 8. However, if you only have room for one wonder, make it the Golden Abyss, not the Tome. At least with the GA, you'll keep it forever and it will get more and more useful as time passes. Tome gets less and less useful. But for now, yeah sure, built it if you have the room, as Lelanya said.
 

maeter75

Active Member
Good early on, but as many point out, post chapter 7 not so much. I never built it in beta or live world. I placed it then removed it so I could use it to get broken shards. the Golden Abyss is WAYYYY more scalable an AW
 

iamthouth

Well-Known Member
@seles it is worth it, and I'll explain why.

The comparison for an production based ancient wonder isn't a comparison against other wonders, it is a comparison against other buildings that give you the same, in this case KP production and supplies production, for example workshops.

You should compare production per hour per tile (so divide Tome of Secrets supplies production by 16 tiles by the duration of your scouts), and compare to the production per tile per hour of workshops. And to build workshops you need population, so the tile requirement is not only that of the workshop, but also the residence.

So within a few levels of the Tome, it will have a higher supplies production per tile per hour than workshops per tile per hour.

Although I'm much further into the chapters than you, this is my comparison presently:
Tome of Secrets (lvl 27) gives 4,440,000 supplies for 16 tiles in scout time of 100 hours, so 2,775 per tile per hour.
Workshop (lvl 40) gives 51,300 supplies for 30 tiles in production time of 3 hours, so 570 per tile per hour.
I do have a culture boost which takes it up to 64,125 supplies, increasing this to 712.5 per tile per hour.
But I haven't accounted for the population required for the workshop, dragging the figure down.
Even adding Power of Provision, doubling 712.5 to 1425 per tile per hour is only half of what I get from the Tome.

And the daily KP provision is also a good contributor. Mine is giving 6 KP per day on 16 tiles (so 1 for 2.67 tiles) , better than Ferris Wheels (1 for 6 tiles), but not as good as Carting Library (1 for 2 tiles), if I could manage to get 6 Carting Libraries (unlikely).
 

Kadhrin

Active Member
It isn't just space that you need to get the impressive results from the Tome of Secrets. There's a LOT of KP that you could spend elsewhere before you get the ToS up to those high levels.

Tome of Secrets (lvl 27) gives 4,440,000 supplies for 16 tiles in scout time of 100 hours, so 2,775 per tile per hour.
Workshop (lvl 40) gives 51,300 supplies for 30 tiles in production time of 3 hours, so 570 per tile per hour.
I do have a culture boost which takes it up to 64,125 supplies, increasing this to 712.5 per tile per hour.
But I haven't accounted for the population required for the workshop, dragging the figure down.
Even adding Power of Provision, doubling 712.5 to 1425 per tile per hour is only half of what I get from the Tome.

There are other factors that can get added in to workshop production:
* production time
* Prosperity Tower

The PT changes how much your Power of Provision enchantments are worth. Normally, it's 200%. The PT takes that number and increases it pretty drastically. At level 11, it's 245%; level 18 makes it 265%. It also increases the duration of the enchantment. Normally 10 hours, with PT at level 11 is 14.5 hours, and level 18 is 16.5 hours.

The other obvious one is production time. While this example is from magic workshops, the ratios are probably the same as regular workshops.
5 minutes base production (gives 36975 supplies)
1 hour: same result as 6.5 five-minute productions (242000 supplies)
24 hours: same results as 32.3 five-minute productions, or 4.9 one-hour productions (1196000 supplies)
Full disclosure: those example numbers are Embassies chapter magic workshops with Power of Provision on, a level 17 PT, and a 200% culture bonus.

(Note: Magic workshops can change your game life drastically. Five magic workshops will produce as much as nine regular workshops. Looking back, I should've started converting to magic workshops earlier, probably when I hit orcs, if I'd been in a 10-chest fellowship.)
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
Tome of Secrets is amazing in the early game. Scout times are short, so it can produce a massive amount of supplies. And that is a big issue for early chapter cities since early game workshops are not that great. Late in the game ToS is not as important or as efficient. Several reasons for this: 1. Scout times get much longer, 2. Other supply wonders such as Prosperity Towers become available, 3. Workshops get better. In particular there is a massive jump in workshop production when you do the ch 15 upgrades to your WS and 4. By mid to late game most players who do the spire will have won some magic WS.

What I did was build ToS in all 3 of my cities. I upgraded it to L6 and then stopped working on it. Late in the game I deleted it in the 2 of my cities which won multiple magic workshops from spire. My 3rd city has had terrible luck winning magic WS from spire, so I actually still have Tome in that city. Even in ch 17 it is still a good source of supplies. One final point I would like to make is that it only takes a total of 888 knowledge points to level ToS to L6. At that point it is giving you 2KP a day. If you keep it for a year before deleting it then you will have paid most of the cost for upgrading it. If you keep it for 15 months then you have fully paid off the knowledge points required to upgrade it.
 
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Henroo

Well-Known Member
How does the EE compare re supply source?
EE gives supplies once every 24 hours, no matter what. Tome of Secrets gives supplies every time you finish scouting a province. The amount of supplies each provides is calculated as a percentage of the total supply holding capacity of your main hall. In this regard Tome of Secrets is double an EE of the same level. A L1 Tome will give 6% of the capacity of you main hall, a L6 will give 12%, and a L11 Tome gives 18%. A L1 EE will give 3% of main hall capacity, a L6 EE will give 6%, and a L11 will give 9%.

Tome is smaller (4x4) in overall size than EE (5x4). In addition to occupying 4 squares less city space, this means that Tome is going to be slightly cheaper to level up. The cost of leveling an AW is always higher the larger the size of the AW. For example, Tome is going to require 140 KP to upgrade from level 1 to level 2. Endless Excavation will require 158 KP to upgrade from L1 to L2. I also think the secondary benefit of Tome (extra knowledge points daily) is much better than the secondary benefit of EE (extra relics every time you complete a map province).
 

iamthouth

Well-Known Member
@Tehya1
My EE (lvl 21) gives me 1,800,000 supplies every 24 hrs, so on 20 tiles and 24 hrs, that is 3,750 per hour per tile.
Compared to my earlier post about Tome (lvl 27) giving 2,750 per hour per tile, it is vastly better (and thus also better than workshops), and also provides it in more manageable chunks, as it is daily, rather than a larger lump sum provided by the Tome.
 
The Tome is a solid starter Wonder. I don't recommend adding it to an intermediate or advanced city. For starters, it makes it easier to deal with your shops, and alleviates problems with the supplies. Plus, you get the supplies the Tome produces when you START a new Scout. This can get you right back in the game when you run low. Finally, if you join a Fellowship having advanced players without the Tome. Those advanced players will be able to help you with the upgrading since they will have boatloads of Rune Shards.
 

SuNaya Dark

Member
And if you have parked your cities, like I did, the 4 KPs are useless. *
I'm still in late part of Chapter 2 (slow, solo player at the moment.
Could you please explain "parked cities"?
(my guess is that this has to do with Teleporting later in the game?)
 

SuNaya Dark

Member
Tome of Secrets is amazing in the early game. Scout times are short, so it can produce a massive amount of supplies. And that is a big issue for early chapter cities since early game workshops are not that great. Late in the game ToS is not as important or as efficient. Several reasons for this: 1. Scout times get much longer, 2. Other supply wonders such as Prosperity Towers become available, 3. Workshops get better. In particular there is a massive jump in workshop production when you do the ch 15 upgrades to your WS and 4. By mid to late game most players who do the spire will have won some magic WS.

What I did was build ToS in all 3 of my cities. I upgraded it to L6 and then stopped working on it. Late in the game I deleted it in the 2 of my cities which won multiple magic workshops from spire. My 3rd city has had terrible luck winning magic WS from spire, so I actually still have Tome in that city. Even in ch 17 it is still a good source of supplies. One final point I would like to make is that it only takes a total of 888 knowledge points to level ToS to L6. At that point it is giving you 2KP a day. If you keep it for a year before deleting it then you will have paid most of the cost for upgrading it. If you keep it for 15 months then you have fully paid off the knowledge points required to upgrade it.
The problem for me (at late Chapter 2 in both my cities) is that it's a 4x4, which is a HUGE amount of real estate at this point in my game. And it doesn't provide workers, like the Golden Abyss does. And one of my cities desperately needs more workforce, and no Summons buildings to provide them. Selling off Workshops will give me some, but not enough in the long run.
I'm trying different things with both cities right now. It's requiring strategic losses, but I'm learning as I go. Not quite ready for a Fellowship, as day job is taking more time than I want, but I'll eventually get the time (and an upgraded laptop with a MUCH better graphix card) to handle it better.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Could you please explain "parked cities"?
It's not necessarily just teleports (that will become available to you when you get the Spire, the only feature that gives them routinely as prizes). Since you started your city before the recent [Ch1-5 random new city test of new mechanics] changes, I'm going to guess that will be when you open Ch3.
Both my cities are 'parked'; one is at the beginning of Ch18 (first tech of new chapter activated), the other is at the beginning of Ch16. The reason for activating the first tech in the city is for the game to see you as 'in' the higher chapter. That will make all event/crafted bldgs give rewards for the higher chapter level.
I parked them because I despise the long slog through these higher chapters. It's not a challenge, they just made it take a gazillion [whatevers] to do anything and then made the bldgs that produce those things make like 10 of them a day max. They also made sure they're the uncapped resources, so not even Portal Profits help. Yes, there's a lot of stuff in there that won't make sense to you until Ch6 when you first see the guest race chapters, but hopefully you get the general idea of why I personally am disillusioned with chapter progress. Some players love it; I hate it.
I looked ahead and found a pretty blue dragon AW available at the end of Ch17, so I slogged that city through 2 chapters just to get that AW. Didn't know what it did or gave, just wanted it :) And I love it, just not enough to do it again in the other city, lol! My favorite parts of the game are tourneys, Spire, events, and FA's (in one city; can't handle doing FA's in two, lol!). I do use teleports to move bldgs in and out of my city as needed to produce resources I need for those activities. That 2nd city has been parked in Ch16 for well over a year and I'm still happy playing it. I make my own goals (ex: increase tourney average to xxxx sustainably week after week).
 

SuNaya Dark

Member
It's not necessarily just teleports (that will become available to you when you get the Spire, the only feature that gives them routinely as prizes). Since you started your city before the recent [Ch1-5 random new city test of new mechanics] changes, I'm going to guess that will be when you open Ch3.
Both my cities are 'parked'; one is at the beginning of Ch18 (first tech of new chapter activated), the other is at the beginning of Ch16. The reason for activating the first tech in the city is for the game to see you as 'in' the higher chapter. That will make all event/crafted bldgs give rewards for the higher chapter level.
I parked them because I despise the long slog through these higher chapters. It's not a challenge, they just made it take a gazillion [whatevers] to do anything and then made the bldgs that produce those things make like 10 of them a day max. They also made sure they're the uncapped resources, so not even Portal Profits help. Yes, there's a lot of stuff in there that won't make sense to you until Ch6 when you first see the guest race chapters, but hopefully you get the general idea of why I personally am disillusioned with chapter progress. Some players love it; I hate it.
I looked ahead and found a pretty blue dragon AW available at the end of Ch17, so I slogged that city through 2 chapters just to get that AW. Didn't know what it did or gave, just wanted it :) And I love it, just not enough to do it again in the other city, lol! My favorite parts of the game are tourneys, Spire, events, and FA's (in one city; can't handle doing FA's in two, lol!). I do use teleports to move bldgs in and out of my city as needed to produce resources I need for those activities. That 2nd city has been parked in Ch16 for well over a year and I'm still happy playing it. I make my own goals (ex: increase tourney average to xxxx sustainably week after week).
Ok. THAT sounds like something I would do when I eventually (like, 10 YEARS from now! :p ) reach Chapter 16 and above.
Good to know. It wasn't what I thought you'd say, but it made sense upon reading it.
And, based on my current progress - Chapter 6 is, like, 2 years away, and I am patient enough to slog it out. :cool::rolleyes::p
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
The problem for me (at late Chapter 2 in both my cities) is that it's a 4x4, which is a HUGE amount of real estate at this point in my game. And it doesn't provide workers, like the Golden Abyss does. And one of my cities desperately needs more workforce, and no Summons buildings to provide them. Selling off Workshops will give me some, but not enough in the long run.

If your that desperate for workers best compare a house to the GA, at that level a house is better. It is the reason GA is not recommended as a first wonder, it costs you space rather than save it. ToS early on can save space and make it faster. But as mentioned before best to compare a wonder on its merits, not to another wonder.

The goals and aims in this game are so varied one could argue for and against every single wonder, even the one often considered the most useless in the game (probably not many pros for that one though). So it really is about knowing your own goals and finding wonders that align/progress that.
 

Moho

Chef
I'm still in late part of Chapter 2 (slow, solo player at the moment.
Could you please explain "parked cities"?
Somebody in one of my fellowships said the other day that he was done chasing chapters. Although I didn't have a term for it, I had always hated chasing chapters too. Right now I run three different cities, all moored in Chapter 6. They had been moored in Chapter 5 actually, but I heard they had modified the game so that players under Chapter 6 should not have access to the Spire, so I advanced to Chapter 6 for fear I would lose my Spire rights. I don't regret it because I am going to use a great military AW soon, but I am not planning to advance to any of the next chapters.
 

MichaelMichael

Active Member
started to play this game a few weeks ago and wonder is the Tome of Secrets is worth the amount of resources required to build.

Is it worth it?
I just finished Chapter 19. I had the Tome early because it gave me supplies regularly. Today it takes 5 days to complete a scouting mission. Needless to say, I deleted the Tome many many chapters ago. It is an early game AW. Everyone deletes sooner or later. Other AW last the whole game. While I don't update it regularly, the Golden Abyss won't ever be deleted. I also regularly update Sanctuary and Watch Tower. Some items like the Tome do not scale in the late game.
 
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