DeletedUser3507
Guest
To a different boosted good, since we are forced to research all of them anyways...This would allow FS to better balance there needs...
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Your Elvenar Team
It would be nice to have the ability to change boosted manufactories
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
It would have to come with a movement on the map to a hex that matches those boosts. Since player movement is broken and all of the middle is filled with dead cities that will never get deleted, that would mean moving out, away from what civilization there is left. I suppose having perfect boost balance in a FS would cover the trading issue, but getting zero visits from neighbors would be even more depressing than the 3-5 most players get....
DeletedUser3507
Guest
That's not all that difficult to do...
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
You'd think it would be pretty simple, but I assume if it was, then player movement would be working.
DeletedUser9220
Guest
Sorry to hijack jps54's thread, but I had a similar thought, and figured it might be better to keep the ideas together rather than start a new thread.
I agree with jps's basic premise; it would be nice to change your boosted goods, but I'm willing to concede that there should be a penalty for doing so. Otherwise a player might be tempted to switch all the time; and if it does need to accompany a move on the map (which I don't think it would necessarily need), then that might cause headaches, evidently.
I think you should be given the opportunity to switch to a new boosted good in exchange for a number (let's say for instance, 100) of relics of the type that you would like to switch to. A steep cost would make a player think long and hard about switching, instead of just playing the hand they are dealt. I think that allowing players to switch would provide the following benefits:
- Experienced players who are growing tired of their current buildings would have the opportunity to try out new ones and experiment with new layouts
- Players who started a new city in a new world hoping for new goods only to find out they have the same goods as their existing city won't be as disappointed
- Fellowships that find themselves lacking in some goods won't have to choose new members based solely on boosted goods; instead they can recruit friends and players that fit into their social dynamic
I think that the price for being able to switch being a large number of relics for the desired good would provide the following penalties:
- It would force a player to play through enough of the game to understand their choices before switching
- It would allow for storyline development centered around the acquisition of relics
- It would force a player to choose between producing new scrolls or saving the relics to switch
- It would put the player that switched (presumably to gain an advantage and capitalize on a good's shortage), at a slight disadvantage in the short-term while they accumulated more relics to bring their boost back up. Ex: I'm at 400% steel and I switch to planks, and now I have to build and level new buildings, as well as sit at 150% planks until I get more relics
In general, I think it would add an additional element to the game and provide a richer experience. But, just my two cents. Keep making a great game!
I agree with jps's basic premise; it would be nice to change your boosted goods, but I'm willing to concede that there should be a penalty for doing so. Otherwise a player might be tempted to switch all the time; and if it does need to accompany a move on the map (which I don't think it would necessarily need), then that might cause headaches, evidently.
I think you should be given the opportunity to switch to a new boosted good in exchange for a number (let's say for instance, 100) of relics of the type that you would like to switch to. A steep cost would make a player think long and hard about switching, instead of just playing the hand they are dealt. I think that allowing players to switch would provide the following benefits:
- Experienced players who are growing tired of their current buildings would have the opportunity to try out new ones and experiment with new layouts
- Players who started a new city in a new world hoping for new goods only to find out they have the same goods as their existing city won't be as disappointed
- Fellowships that find themselves lacking in some goods won't have to choose new members based solely on boosted goods; instead they can recruit friends and players that fit into their social dynamic
I think that the price for being able to switch being a large number of relics for the desired good would provide the following penalties:
- It would force a player to play through enough of the game to understand their choices before switching
- It would allow for storyline development centered around the acquisition of relics
- It would force a player to choose between producing new scrolls or saving the relics to switch
- It would put the player that switched (presumably to gain an advantage and capitalize on a good's shortage), at a slight disadvantage in the short-term while they accumulated more relics to bring their boost back up. Ex: I'm at 400% steel and I switch to planks, and now I have to build and level new buildings, as well as sit at 150% planks until I get more relics
In general, I think it would add an additional element to the game and provide a richer experience. But, just my two cents. Keep making a great game!
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
As someone who just spent 2 weeks adding a single additional magic dust building, I can't imagine anyone going through that on purpose. The months it would take to replace all of your factories would be crippling.
Imo the only logical time to switch boosts would be extremely early, and if a player is going to do it that early it's probably much easier just to keep making accounts until you get what you want rather than playing one you don't want until you get enough relics to pay for the privilage of tearing down your city and starting from scratch.
Imo the only logical time to switch boosts would be extremely early, and if a player is going to do it that early it's probably much easier just to keep making accounts until you get what you want rather than playing one you don't want until you get enough relics to pay for the privilage of tearing down your city and starting from scratch.
edeba
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine doing that either. My questline is stuck on chapter 5 because I can't imagine going back to fix it.
DeletedUser3507
Guest
I can and I am in chapter 11...
DeletedUser7370
Guest
The logical thing to do is decouple which goods are boosted from position on the world map. Then add a box that comes up when a person completes a boosting research that offers them to choose which good receives the boost. In this way we can have all 27 possible combinations instead of the 9 we get now, and no one has to make a bunch of 0 point cities to try to get particular boosts.
I am with Soggy on the idea that changing them later in the game is something most people would not want to do, and likely not worth any dev time to create.
I am with Soggy on the idea that changing them later in the game is something most people would not want to do, and likely not worth any dev time to create.
DeletedUser9220
Guest
That is an excellent observation. I think that either the good referenced in the skill tree would change, or they could remove the specific reference to the named good, and make it generic.
Giving you the choice up front would be nice and would cut down on the small abandoned cities; but it doesn't do much to address some of the other potential reasons someone might want to switch later on - like trying other buildings, balancing their FS, etc.
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I'm in Dwarves, and I could totally justify a switch at this point in the game. But, I'll concede, the farther along a player is, the more difficult (more time in building, the lost resources cost, etc.) it would be for them to switch (which seems like the point to me, but I digress...)
So, to amend my initial thought: what if instead of sacrificing relics, you're given the option to research a boost switch at points in the game. It should be optional and not required to progress in your chapter. It could even be a building you built that would allow you to spend KP to switch; somewhat like a wonder. It might start off at 100kp to switch, and get more expensive each time.
If it was treated like a wonder, then your fellowship could even contribute to help you switch. Then fellowships could work cooperatively to balance themselves.
Thank you all for your feedback on this.
Calenmir
Well-Known Member
@InfamousTricks generic would work!
It would be fun to think about doing it, but not sure I ever would. I suspect one of the reasons we can't is that relics are used for more than just your boosts. For instance, none of your boosted relics are needed for spells. So changing your boosted good would impact your magic academy. Would that be something that's easy to implement?
It would be fun to think about doing it, but not sure I ever would. I suspect one of the reasons we can't is that relics are used for more than just your boosts. For instance, none of your boosted relics are needed for spells. So changing your boosted good would impact your magic academy. Would that be something that's easy to implement?
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I would assume that you'd still only build 1 of each tier, so decoupling from the map would only add 3 more combinations. The devs want to encourage trading (or so they say despite not focusing on fixing player movement), so removing each cities specialization would be a step away from that goal.
IMO it would be better to reduce the combinations. If you could only get
- planks,silk,gems
- steel,scrolls,dust
- marble,crystal,elixir
DeletedUser6755
Guest
It would need to accompany a move on the map. Your boosted goods are determined by 3 or the provinces directly adjacent to you. It's how fellowships know what your boosts are when they're recruiting.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Right, that is how it is now. Really it doesn't have to be that way, it was just a choice the devs made. They could just as easily set it up so that it only accounts for which tier 1 is adjacent to you. So if you have marble, you automatically get marble,crystal,elixir as your boost etc.
DeletedUser7370
Guest
What I suggested does not reduce specialization. Players would get to pick which good to be boosted in when they complete the tier # boost research. As for the combinations 3*3*3=27:
Marble, Crystal, Elixir
Marble, Crystal, Dust
Marble, Crystal, Gems
Marble, Scrolls, Elixir
Marble, Scrolls, Dust
Marble, Scrolls, Gems
Marble, Silk, Elixir
Marble, Silk, Dust
Marble, Silk, Gems
Repeat starting with Steel for 9 more and then with Planks for another 9.
Marble, Crystal, Dust
Marble, Crystal, Gems
Marble, Scrolls, Elixir
Marble, Scrolls, Dust
Marble, Scrolls, Gems
Marble, Silk, Elixir
Marble, Silk, Dust
Marble, Silk, Gems
Repeat starting with Steel for 9 more and then with Planks for another 9.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Yeah I can't say I'm in favour of that, as it would make balancing a fellowship even harder. Reducing it to 3 would be better imo. (although this is now obviously impossible since changing boosts for existing players would be crazy)
Another concern is that some boosts could be considered better than others.
For example level 1 Elven planks and both marbles are smaller, and this can help a lot during events.
Also, having a combination like
Both of those factors could lead to a greater imbalance of goods in the world if players pick the "better" ones more often. Likewise some of the graphics are more popular than others, so if players are picking based on aesthetics it could also tilt things.
Another concern is that some boosts could be considered better than others.
For example level 1 Elven planks and both marbles are smaller, and this can help a lot during events.
Also, having a combination like
- planks,silk,gems
- steel,scrolls,dust
- marble,crystal,elixir
Both of those factors could lead to a greater imbalance of goods in the world if players pick the "better" ones more often. Likewise some of the graphics are more popular than others, so if players are picking based on aesthetics it could also tilt things.
edeba
Well-Known Member
I was in a fs for about 2 weeks where a frustrated player asked me to leave because he thought I made the resources too imbalanced in that he had not had a problem getting stuff before I came and now there were huge shortages. Level and game activity make a huge difference for balancing a fellowship. They were short my boosts when I entered and way over supplied in about a week.
I find being in a fellowship with players with closer levels is way better for being able to trade.
I find being in a fellowship with players with closer levels is way better for being able to trade.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Yeah that can help, or you just need a couple players with huge stockpiles.
Despite only running 5/3/2 factories I've somehow managed to store up millions of T1, and a bunch of T2/3, so I pretty much take all trades 3-6 times a day.
When my stash becomes unbalanced I just post a few 100K trades and one or more of my neighbors will take it overnight.
My FS also uses a system where we will post trades that we aren't in urgent need of, but want to bring into the FS.
We keep those separate by adding "01" at the end.
So if I see a bunch of trades with
5,000 pl for 5,000 st, I'll grab em all
but If I see some
3,001 dust for 3,001 gems that I personally don't want, I'll ignore them, leaving them for non-FS players to take ( or FS members that want them)
My FS are active enough that there's almost always a few players online at any given time, so trades very rarely stay up for an hour.
DeletedUser188
Guest
The devs are going to let us change our boosted goods in the same update they introduce a storage space and the ability to rotate our buildings