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    Your Elvenar Team

Just Some Ideas... Spire Simulator

  • Thread starter Deleted User - 849281086
  • Start date

Deleted User - 849281086

Guest
Once upon a time...

Ideas not for the devs.

Me and some others have been talking about spire odds etc for negotiating. Turns out a lot of people don't really have experience with figuring poker type odds... when to keep going vs when to stop. Major mat loss keep such people from bothering with spire much.

Maybe something like this already exists but I wonder how hard it would be to create a spire simulator that just shows the negotiating screen and lets you choose level of negotiation. For practice.

Turns out a lot of players aren't even doing spire beyond lowest levels because they fail too often at negotiations and don't like watching their mats disappear. Could use something like this.

ALSO... i wonder how hard it would be to make a program that does 1 billion spire negotiations intelligently (maybe a few choice layouts), random difficulties, and we could see which type of negotiating tactic is best... (like 1 of each mat to start vs 2 2 1, vs 3 2 etc..... when to quit, etc).

We're also wondering if the spire npc's prefer certain mats, and maybe stages do too.

End result... a website that tells you the best thing to do for any situation, live as you do spire.

And if these 3 things are put on a website, make it a magical website the devs can't see, so they can't tweak their code to mess with our newfound spire perfection.

And make it a website Helya can't see either so she can't say "this is cheating" and ban me.

The end.
 

Deleted User - 849281086

Guest
BQwer said:
you gotta love who the person who says negotation is OP wants a calculator so he can do it better lol
Click to expand...

It is 100% OP... thanks for reminding me.

But yeah... without buying MA boosts i'm sort of having to negotiate 2/3 the encounters fighting up through 2nd map. Figuring out perfect tactics for it will be kind of fun.

Though yeah, i'll never go the pure negotiator route. Too Easy = Not As Fun.

I still prefer to watch my war dogs rip the guts out of the enemies from time to time.

Strange how no matter how many times they do it, they have no blood stains around their mouths... trust me... i checked.
 

KarlD

Well-Known Member
Michmarc did a spreadsheet ( https://tinyurl.com/y54zfzct ) that tries to minimize the overall cost of negotiating by allowing you to rank goods according to their value to you. So if you are swimming in coins you might say coins are the cheapest, but when I was at endgame in chapter 16 I had nothing to do with my mana so it was the cheapest. The spreadsheet also gives the odds of failure. It is well worth trying.

One thing to keep in mind is that the spreadsheet is set up to optimize for 3 guesses. After the third set of guesses you are on your own. When there are 7 or 8 items to choose from I am prepared to buy an extra guess, but I have to do my own reasoning to determine if I can solve with just one more guess and what the solution is. I don't feel that the spreadsheet gives optimal solutions for when more than 3 guesses are needed. I suppose if you know you will quit after 3 guesses you may be able to minimize cost over if you want to solve in no more than 4 guesses.

I actually developed a negotiation simulator. It allows you to choose how many goods there are to choose from and lets you try to solve who wants what. Unfortunately it only runs as a Windows .exe executable file. It also uses a tremendous amount of CPU power even though mostly 's just sitting there waiting for a key to be entered. I wish I were more tech savvy and could create something that works on a web browser. If anybody knows of a simulator that works on a browser I'd love to hear about it.
 
Kawhi is a Raptor

Kawhi is a Raptor

Active Member
KarlD said:
Michmarc did a spreadsheet ( https://tinyurl.com/y54zfzct ) that tries to minimize the overall cost of negotiating by allowing you to rank goods according to their value to you. So if you are swimming in coins you might say coins are the cheapest, but when I was at endgame in chapter 16 I had nothing to do with my mana so it was the cheapest. The spreadsheet also gives the odds of failure. It is well worth trying.

One thing to keep in mind is that the spreadsheet is set up to optimize for 3 guesses. After the third set of guesses you are on your own. When there are 7 or 8 items to choose from I am prepared to buy an extra guess, but I have to do my own reasoning to determine if I can solve with just one more guess and what the solution is. I don't feel that the spreadsheet gives optimal solutions for when more than 3 guesses are needed. I suppose if you know you will quit after 3 guesses you may be able to minimize cost over if you want to solve in no more than 4 guesses.

I actually developed a negotiation simulator. It allows you to choose how many goods there are to choose from and lets you try to solve who wants what. Unfortunately it only runs as a Windows .exe executable file. It also uses a tremendous amount of CPU power even though mostly 's just sitting there waiting for a key to be entered. I wish I were more tech savvy and could create something that works on a web browser. If anybody knows of a simulator that works on a browser I'd love to hear about it.
Click to expand...

found a couple mastermind simulators out in the wild but with not very friendly user interfaces

and they're purely solution oriented
 

Deleted User - 849281086

Guest
Interesting stuff here.

KarlD gets the award for attempting this once upon a time. Though yeah, exe files a no no for sharing haha.

Would be a simple enough project to create a simulator on computer, with mass auto fights and scenarios, stat tracking etc, but without a programmer, maybe a mathematician is needed.

Could figure out odds, then create a simple spreadsheet to choose scenario, it would say what to do that's best odds, and recommend when to quit or what to place next and where for every turn... till turns are up. Easy drop menus.

OK so we need to find a computer geek or a math nerd.

#HumansPreferedInHiring
 
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