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    Your Elvenar Team

Just wondering why we tolerate cheaters?!

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mucksterme

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
Ashrem said:
I don't think everything is an exercise in futility, but lots of things are, and some more than others. Letting futile things eat away at us seems counterproductive. I don't know what complaining about other people offering their opinions is, I've never done so. Now if they word their opinions as though they are facts, then I'm in it for the whole run.
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My favorite complaint along those lines is the "We weren't talking to you ..."

There needs to be a button that inserts, "Don't post on a public forum if you don't want public comments"
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
ET-inf3rno said:
Hmm interesting. Somebody told me pushing was removed from rules, but it is still in game rules on forum. https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/game-rules.701/ Btw you can relative easily write a bot for login and donation, so pushing can be done automatically too. What I find really interesting, that some of these pushing cities typically donate 1-200kp to the pushed city. So somehow they manage to collect more than just that daily 1-20 kp with them. Maybe they are playing tourney too. That takes a lot more time and dedication than just pushing with the daily kp.
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You know, it never even occurred to me to use bots. But then again, I'm a typical end-user so I wouldn't even know where to begin.
And I was just doing some math in my head. But yes, if one plays the tourneys, say 4 rounds, for 5 provinces that would be another 20 KPs/week for the province-rewards as well. Plus whatever KP-instants if the FS scores some chests.
But that would require much more time per account, just to do the tourney and reset things often enough to gain enough coin/supllies/goods/troops to actually keep doing so. I guess some people either have too much time on their hands, or found a real-life Timewarp thingy (or are some kind of vampire and don't need to sleep).

(EDIT)
It's not about whether it is in the rules, but whether the rules are enforced. Inno stated it's not.
Lets for example say that yes, the speedlimit is 55, but the state announces it will no longer enforce that rule, so police won't stop you or ticket you for speeding. The rule then still exists, but that doesn't mean everyone will continue to abide by that speedlimit and nothing will stop them from speeding and more and more people will do so to keep up with the other traffic.
If however the state would announce that it's going to enforce it there will still people speeding, but a lot of people will weigh the risk.
 
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Valtitude

Valtitude

Active Member
mikeledo said:
I missed the official INNO posting saying it was okay to have push cities that the rule will never be enforced and there will never be any punishment even under new management.
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I missed the "it's okay to have push accounts" announcement, too. Frankly, INNO - I'D LIKE TO SEE OFFICIAL POLICY ON PUSH ACCOUNTS AS OF OCTOBER 2019. I've seen push accounts around and about, for awhile now.

If all's fair in Elvenar and push accounts, shouldn't Inno announce this in a message to all?
Shirley (Surely - get it?) ... this can't be ...
 
mikeledo

mikeledo

Well-Known Member
I don't believe the rules have changed since 2016:
  • Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.
  • It is forbidden to create trades in any form (goods, Knowledge Points etc.) that involve multiple worlds.
  • Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
Like I said before

Dhurrin said:
(EDIT)
It's not about whether it is in the rules, but whether the rules are enforced. Inno stated it's not.
Lets for example say that yes, the speedlimit is 55, but the state announces it will no longer enforce that rule, so police won't stop you or ticket you for speeding. The rule then still exists, but that doesn't mean everyone will continue to abide by that speedlimit and nothing will stop them from speeding and more and more people will do so to keep up with the other traffic.
If however the state would announce that it's going to enforce it there will still people speeding, but a lot of people will weigh the risk.
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It may still be against the rules, but if they're not enforced the rules don't mean anything.
Actually it would be easy enough: if they announce that from next week on they ARE going to track KPs to keep an eye on push accounts it pretty much will end right away.
I'd have a problem with retro-active fixes, (just out of principal I have a problem with any kind of rule or law being applied retro-actively) but just putting that in place with the next serious update and have the stuff reportable with screenshots like the ones above would have a lot of people weigh the risks much more carefully as they suddenly really stand to lose their main city they have invested so much time, effort and money in. Such a change in tracking the KPs is not that hard to realize in the game. It won't change what has happened, but it will help the situation from here on.
 
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Deborah M

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
If it will last? This has been discussed over & over & over since it has been going on for at least a couple of years now. I can't imagine that a handful of the same players complaining about it on the forum ad infinitum is going to outweigh the very large number of players who have push accounts. Not only do most top ranked spenders have them but it has evolved to where many, many middle ranked players have them. They are mostly spenders too or they wouldn't care about putting in that effort to raise ranking. I know for a fact that it is so commonly accepted that I've heard about players being advised on how it works. It's just become normal game play to too many players for anything to be done now without a mass exodus of paying players. So who would be paying for this game to continue?

I just think it is really sad that anybody is so worried about what other people are doing that they would waist their time & efforts keeping track of somebody else's game. Isn't there enough anxt over problems that directly effect our own games without searching for even more anxt?

@Fairy Dust since when is it OK to post pics of another individual player's game name included for derogatory purposes? Aren't they supposed to black out the name? Isn't that a breach of privacy on a public forum?
 
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ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
mikeledo said:
They could allow folks with push accounts to keep playing and just pull the worst ones from the rankings. They would still have points, just no rank by their name.
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My fav would be something like Sim City disasters. For example KP pushers city would be flooded and a few buildings destroyed, or the timewarp could malfunction and lower the levels of all buildings by 10. It would be a lot more fun. :D
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
Deborah M said:
If it will last? This has been discussed over & over & over since it has been going on for at least a couple of years now. I can't imagine that a handful of the same players complaining about it on the forum ad infinitum is going to outweigh the very large number of players who have push accounts. Not only do most top ranked spenders have them but it has evolved to where many, many middle ranked players have them. They are mostly spenders too or they wouldn't care about putting in that effort to raise ranking. I know for a fact that it is so commonly accepted that I've heard about players being advised on how it works. It's just become normal game play to too many players for anything to be done now without a mass exodus of paying players. So who would be paying for this game to continue?

I just think it is really sad that anybody is so worried about what other people are doing that they would waist their time & efforts keeping track of somebody else's game. Isn't there enough anxt over problems that directly effect our own games without searching for even more anxt?

@Fairy Dust since when is it OK to post pics of another individual player's game name included for derogatory purposes? Aren't they supposed to black out the name? Isn't that a breach of privacy on a public forum?
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That's the whole point. Someone figures out a way to beat the system (cheat) and gets a huge advantage that way. Both in gameplay and in ranking (I mean, having all AW's maxed DEFINITELY gives a huge advantage in the game as everything becomes a lot easier, thus ending higher in the ranking as well and having an easier time to maintain that.
That doesn't go unnoticed, so when the company doesn't stomp it right away, when it still is a small problem, others will try to 'catch up' by doing the same. First that will be limited to a few other players in/near the top, but as it becomes more and more obvious and isn't acted against, more and more players will be following suit.
Now they have waited so long that although it is against the rules as they are on paper, the situation in reality is completely different as more and more players are doing so. And who can actually blame them? To be honest, I'm getting a bit tempted. With the Spire added having all military AWs at 30 would be a huge help to do better in both tourneys and the Spire alike. And I'm betting I'm not the only one feeling that way.
But they have waited too long to act against it now. If they suddenly would, they stand to lose a lot of their big spenders and will even affect a lot of players in their 'middle class' who caught on. By waiting so long they have pretty much made it impossible to act at all anymore.
As I said before, I would be against any retro-active retributions, but they should start tracking KPs, announce they will be doing so and announce they will be putting in sanctions on people still found to use push-accounts from this point on. If they don't do that, it will become just another aspect of the game as more and more people will see it as feature to boost their cities.
 
Deborah M

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
Dhurrin said:
If they don't do that, it will become just another aspect of the game as more and more people will see it as feature to boost their cities.
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I'm thinking it's already water under the bridge now. I believe it has already become another aspect of the game. I only really looked at this on one world probably over a year ago and it was already widespread. Even then somebody pointed me in the direction of where it was. Since then I have noticed what seems to be a larger portion of newer players catching on. I've noticed players who shot up toward the top really fast between spending and AW push. For me I may think "WOW!" but beyond that it is what it is and not a chance I'm going to get all hot and worried about it. I'll just keep plugging along and saving my anxt for issues that have an effect on me enjoying my game directly.

Honestly, if long term players want to shout "unfair," newer players have a whole lot of advantages over back when we started playing. I have a couple of small cities I play along with a couple of family members. It helps stave off boredom. Sometimes I just shake my head at all the advantages there are now to make it easier and faster.
 
Vergazi

Vergazi

Well-Known Member
Are not all games like this after several expansions? Using WoW as an example because I am more familiar with it, at least up until Cataclysm went live, new players had all sorts of advantages built in like leveling with a friend and your friend instantly levels up with you and vice versa. Heck, now they even have instant level ups to maximum level I think I read? That may be for players with a toon at max lv though I am not sure on that. But all of the purchasable items, mounts, etc. that new players can get did not exist when I started playing and it kinda feels like "cheating" in one part of my mind if I am honest about it. In the end all game companies do what indicates will make the most money while pleasing players and retaining the spenders.

I believe I prefer subscription games, generally, because the players are more on a even footing in terms of how well they do and what they get out of the game. However, as I am now playing Elvenar as a substitute, If I'm honest, I find that there are elements to Elvenar that I liked as much as in subscription games and this is due, I believe, In the game devs work to make the game good for as many players as possible-- even the ones who are not spenders.

So, bottom line, cheating or not what some players are doing? IDC if a few players "cheat" because whatever the truth is, it's a formula that has kept IG in business and the game going and that's all that matters to me.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
Deborah M said:
I'm thinking it's already water under the bridge now. I believe it has already become another aspect of the game.
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I am with Deborah on this one. I believe it is the same situation like with bodybuilding - steroids are against the rules, but everyone knows that in order to be competitive at all one has to use them, and it has been the case for decades now. The enforcement is clearly not there. I mean, they even run separate federations for "natural" (i.e. no juicing) competitions. And you can look at the pictures of competitors in "natural" vs regular events, and it is pretty clear that the difference is not just their work ethic.

And Elvenar is not a particularly PvP competitive game to begin with, so I see no upside for Inno to start enforcing the rules now. Sure, a few people will be upset, but I just don't see any widespread outrage about that. Seems like most people don't know about pushing, don't care or push themselves. On the other hand, there is a good chance that a lot of pushing players will quit if enforcement becomes strict. If those players are also spenders, then kicking them out makes little sense for Inno.
 
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