Just wondering why we tolerate cheaters?!

[Enevhar Aldarion]

As others have noted, simply stopping KP donations for people who aren't in the same fellowship or discovered area would solve 90% of the pushing. Sure, someone could swap guilds to make donations but that would be a hassle to do consistently. Or they could fill up their fellowship with their own alts, but that also means they'd have to do more of the tournament themselves.

Well, as some have said, there is still some benefit for helping an undiscovered neighbor with their AWs. Maybe there just needs to be a penalty for doing it, like with trades. Make donating KP to an undiscovered neighbor be at a 2:1 rate. You spend two, they get one.

Oh, and everyone upset with these pushers better be prepared for it to probably get worse once they enable donating KP with the app. So much less time needed to do the same thing.

 

[shimmerfly]

I often have donated a lot of KP to my neighbors. I was tech locked for a long while. Some I just gave one KP each time I visited to thank them for picking up my trades and visiting every day adds up. Not being in a fellowship ( I know I know...) I feel good sharing.when I can. I also only have one city. I wouldn't like not being able to give KP to whomever I want to. Sounds screwy to me.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Well, as some have said, there is still some benefit for helping an undiscovered neighbor with their AWs. Maybe there just needs to be a penalty for doing it, like with trades. Make donating KP to an undiscovered neighbor be at a 2:1 rate. You spend two, they get one.

I've actually done that. When I needed Shrooms runes, I spent an hour going through the tournament roster (a good bet they're active) to find players who had a Shrooms where the slots weren't claimed and plopped down enough KP to secure some runes. Nowadays, I have more than enough runes for AWs I haven't even unlocked yet, but I can see why some would still want to be able to donate to random people. But this is the main source of the pushing so limiting that would likely help more than it hurts.

Not being in a fellowship ( I know I know...) I feel good sharing.when I can.

I'm surprised someone as active as you plays solo. Do you prefer a nice clean, uncluttered trader? Or was it endless chat conversations of baking recipes?

 

[shimmerfly]

I'm surprised someone as active as you plays solo. Do you prefer a nice clean, uncluttered trader? Or was it endless chat conversations of baking recipes?

All of the above. I'm a recluse at heart and pretty much in reality so I've never been socialized properly? Kind of like the neighbors dog. Nice dog but doesn't always play well with others Plus I'm very very stubborn.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

@shimmerfly Haha you seem quite the social butterfly here. Well, I'm glad you came out to visit the forums because you always have something interesting to say. I guess it's just about finding a good fellowship among the many inactive or mismanaged ones. Elvenstats helped me find my current one by letting me see what their activity was like and I've been very happy.

 

[mucksterme]

All of the above. I'm a recluse at heart and pretty much in reality so I've never been socialized properly? Kind of like the neighbors dog. Nice dog but doesn't always play well with others Plus I'm very very stubborn.

Too bad you're not on Fely I'd have the perfect FS for you.
Our chat box is very quiet. We like people to participate in Tourny and Adventure but no one is harassed about it.
We don't even count visits.
All our AM does is track activity and periodically clear out the long dead accounts.
Maybe you could find someone like us where you are. Then you'd be able to get a few chests from the tourny every week and add a group of reliable trading partners.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i plop kp all over the place on aw's a penalty stroke for donating for any reasons sounds terrible, and i share an ip address with a live in gal pal and asked about sharing ip address when she started and was told in elvenar the more the merryier, but it's a no go on FOE, i was told due to "a refer a friend deal" they have.. so other than a faster trade pick up now and then when things get slowish (a yell to the other room to pick up 25k gems etc) it's straight game play and all seems fine..

 

[LEO1WOLF]

Well, in our full-on F.S. of 25 - - many of my compeers are very cheritable with their K.P.'s. But then there's me, Lone Wolf - - it's my birthright & by God I'm a little too greedy when it comes to whom I share my K.P.'s with. We had this new kid who liked what I was chatting about in our Guilld Chat, asked me a few questions in which I was happy to help. But he didn't know what the K.P.'s are for & that he'd have a use for them in the future. So he started dropping like 50 some-odd K.P.'s per 3 of my A.W.'s. I told him that he would have a need for these in his own city & he needs to be saving them for himself. So the very first A.W. he earned, I dropped about 150-K.P. on his. Granted he was very grateful, but I'm a GREEDY & HORDING S.O.B., so I said to myself: "Do it, help the noob, you'll feel better in the long run & you won't feel endebted to him for anything." While I wasn't exactly lieinig to myself - - I certainly DID miss the K.P.'s because I felt like I owed him.

Which comes to my point, I want to use every single K.P. I earn & if I want to be charitable (which isn't often, mind-you), then I should be able to drop a couple on a fellow Guildie or someone whom does not belong to our Fellowship. >SALUTE< to those who share, but are any of you horders of K.P.'s like myself?

 

[mikeledo]

I would not mind in the least to see some playing styles forced to change to eliminate push accounts which rob people of ranking points. Another pet peeve is the selfishness of those with push accounts who also use the KP thread and ask people in their FS for KP when their push city has top honors. They don't bother to separate the AWs for the FS and those for the push accounts. I don't like feeding AWs when the push account occupies the top spot. Selfish players.

 

[Ashrem]

I suggested a long time ago that there is a pretty easy fix, by tracking received and expended KP, and not allowing a city to have kp donated once excess (donations-minus-donated) exceeds 20% of the donations. If you've donated 1000, you can receive up to 1200. If you've donated 10,000, you can receive 12,000. When that threshold is hit, you can't receive any more until you've donated some more. That leaves plenty of leeway for gifting and trading, but makes pushing completely not worthwhile, and doesn't require any resources to investigate.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

if you & he gave 150kp and got 150kp that's an equal exchange, now he feels great and learned stuff, in his mind (probably) thinks he helped a fellowship member and was generous and you feel somehow upset in some way that you broke even and helped a fellow fellowship member learn and possibly happy? maybe i'm over thinking that reply hahaha (push accts aside i don't think any here are using)

 

[Ashrem]

if you & he gave 150kp and got 150kp that's an equal exchange, now he feels great and learned stuff, in his mind (probably) thinks he helped a fellowship member and was generous and you feel somehow upset in some way that you broke even and helped a fellow fellowship member learn and possibly happy?

The problem is likely that the original donation is to AWs that Leo1wolf has no interest in upgrading. For him, those KP, are a dead loss and he isn't even.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

by the logic that all upgrades lead to Rome i declare all AW upgrades a positive .. keeping players active keeps the game alive and yes it has problems but i can't stay mad at a game that has Delicious Gingerbread Men waving smiling and making goo goo face at me,

 

[Ashrem]

by the logic that all upgrades lead to Rome i declare all AW upgrades a positive

I'm guessing you've never torn down a road (or an AW) after building it.....

 

[DeletedUser2959]

I'm guessing you've never torn down a road (or an AW) after building it.....

I've done that a couple times with Enar's Embolism and Thrones of the Hymen just to make broken shards with the shards. Be a shame if somebody dumped KP in one of them because I'm not giving them back.

 

[DeletedUser19521]

You seem to be overthinking it on the kp exchanges. If I donate 150 kp to myself, there is no bonus. If I only donate 150 kp to kp threads, either myself or others in the FS will get additional kp and I will get 150 kp to my wonders. It's pretty much a no brainer unless you are in a wonder society FS.

 

[ET-inf3rno]

That's why you rarely see Top 10 players posting high scores in Tournament. It's much easier for lower level players to post those big scores, especially if they haven't taken all the squad size upgrades in the tech tree. The only time you're going to see someone in the Top 10 post a big Tournament score is if they're pushing goods to cater all of their unlocked provinces. That's how someone got 9,252 points a couple weeks ago despite having a similar fighting handicap.

You need to craft tournament buildings, they can help a lot with HP bonus and mage multipliers. You still won't do a lot, but you can double your tournament points with them if you do only 1500.

 

[ET-inf3rno]

As I was reading all the "they are obviously cheating" comments I was remember my old Halo ( original edition) days. The friend who taught me the game was constantly being kicked off servers for botting. When actually he was just an amazing player. He practiced for hours and hours to perfect his game. But a lot of people who went up against him thought " no way someone can be that much better than me without cheating."

Well we have hard evidence that they are cheating. You cannot do more than 600-1000KP per week without KP pushing, while they are doing more than 5k KP every week.

off:
Botting is usually opinion based and you don't have such a concrete evidence... I was kicked from public servers because of WH and aimbot countless times too, and I never used it, I just practiced Wolfenstein Enemy Territory (ET) 2 years 8+ hours per day against high skilled opponents when I was a student and had nothing else to do. That was enough to become one of the best shooters in Europe around 2006-2007.

 

[Ashrem]

You seem to be overthinking it on the kp exchanges. If I donate 150 kp to myself, there is no bonus. If I only donate 150 kp to kp threads, either myself or others in the FS will get additional kp and I will get 150 kp to my wonders. It's pretty much a no brainer unless you are in a wonder society FS.

I don't think anybody is overthinking it. The issue is someone who donates to your AW without asking if you want it, or where you want it, and thereby leaves some people feeling like they have an obligation to return KP that might be a complete waste from their point of view.

Well we have hard evidence that they are cheating. You cannot do more than 600-1000KP per week without KP pushing, while they are doing more than 5k KP every week.

Evidence is rarely as hard as we'd like to think. 5,000 kp is about $1500.00 if you're not getting a 100% bonus deal. Unlikely, but a competent physician is probably netting 10-15k a month. Again, I don't disagree that they are probably cheating, but your hard evidence is barely stale bread.

The only time you're going to see someone in the Top 10 post a big Tournament score is if they're pushing goods to cater all of their unlocked provinces. That's how someone got 9,252 points a couple weeks ago despite having a similar fighting handicap.

Or they deployed a bunch of martial booster event buildings that triple the hit points of all their troops, which basically makes it a cakewalk to do 30+ provinces 5 or six deep with almost no negotiating, even if you don't have martial boost AWs at 25th level, and aren't using diamonds to buy back any troops you do lose.

(edit: reduced cost of diamonds as they were cheaper than I remembered)

 

[ET-inf3rno]

Evidence is rarely as hard as we'd like to think. 5,000 kp is about $1500.00 if you're not getting a 100% bonus deal. Unlikely, but a competent physician is probably netting 10-15k a month. Again, I don't disagree that they are probably cheating, but your hard evidence is barely stale bread.

Yepp, so it is 6k$ per month and 78k$ per year. So Inno got a five million dollar income just from the top 10s of the 7 worlds. Still they don't have a decent developer who can write e2e tests for the game to prevent introducing bugs with every release... E.g. it still does not store auth cookie (remember login) even though it is a months old bug they are aware of. I think it is very-very unlikely, not just unlikely. But you are right, they are just suspicious. I recently left a fellowship because a member was gaining 8.5k KP per week from November 2018. It was close to impossible to make screenshots of KP donations, because they can finish it in less than an hour without using bots, but after a while I managed to take a screenshot. The guy was getting most of the KP from a small Fellowship with 25 cities all having the same layout, similar ranking points (10-12k), usually zero AWs, or just a level 1 GA. It takes 2 such Fellowships and 1 hour a day to collect that amount of KP. So what do you think, 99% is buying KP for 50k+$ annually or 99% is using pushing cities? Actually the real "hard" evidence is in the Inno database we cannot access... What we have now is just 5 sigma confidence level.

Or they deployed a bunch of martial booster event buildings that triple the hit points of all their troops, which basically makes it a cakewalk to do 30+ provinces 5 or six deep with almost no negotiating, even if you don't have martial boost AWs at 25th level, and aren't using diamonds to buy back any troops you do lose.

Crafting tournament buildings is a new feature we got in the past 3, maybe 4 weeks. That changed many things at least temporarily. Before crafting the only way to get those buildings was winning them as daily exclusives on events. So maybe you were able to use enough of them once every 3 months. I tried out on elixir and gems with 5HP buildings and 3 HP buildings + 5 mage multipliers respectively, but I could reach only around 6k with fights only. My teammate tried it out too with a few million goods to cater and he ended up with 8100ish TP. We both ran out of army, even if we used time boosters and diamonds to train them faster. So even with tournament buildings reaching 9k every second week is very hard and doing 30 provinces for 5-6 levels is never a "cakewalk" with a normal city. But ofc. we are not talking about this, what we are talking about that for 1.5 years on Sinya Arda almost every week we got the same people in the top 10 of the tournaments and somehow they all have 250.000+ KP in AWs in a 2 years old world, while none of us reached 60k KP yet. Actually I have 25k-ish KP in AWs, but I did not play with diamonds for almost a year. Ofc. every now and then we got non cheating players in the top 10 of tournaments when somebody really pushes it after collecting goods and army for a few weeks. We cannot do that, because doing 10 chests each week is more important for us than pushing tournaments to get a few hundred RP and doing only 9 chests the next week... (Well ... sort of ... I use to push every elixir for 4500-5000 TP with time boosters and I lend some goods from teammates too. But that is my fun part after every 9 weeks.)