Kicked out of my fellowship and feeling hurt

[Shae-Leigh]

@Aradia NightStar I am so sorry that this happened! I think I would feel the same way you do. I have played with the same people for a long time, mostly. I consider them friends, even though in reality, I don't know any of them. But, I have spent every evening "socializing" with them for years. Have walked through a lot of crazy stuff with them. I hope that things in your RL get better quickly! And I hope that you are able to find somewhere that you would love to play again.

 

[Dominionofgod]

If filling your FS is an issue (as it is for most FS) then there's really no downside to booting inactives. If they ever come back, you'll probably have a spot open. A few nicely worded messages before the kick and there shouldn't be any hard feelings.

guess it depends on the perspective of the person looking. As well as there knowledge and experience. Inactive or open slot, both are not contributing technically. Some ppl might see a couple inactives and think negatively, some might see a lower fs score and think negatively; or some might start there search at the top score lists of fs and work there way down. In which case the inactive is contributing there score to boost up the potion.
Both have points to be made. Both have flaws as well. Depends on the person looking.

On a different side of it... For my fs personally, we have 1 open slot and 2 inactives. If anyone was going through fs looking for a new home and saw us and thought something to the effect of 'two inactives!? Oh heeeeeellllll no!' ... then chances are it probably wouldnt have gone well if they had joined anyway. - If there were 5 or 10 inactives then yea, i get it. But not 2. - And as we all probably know, its not only about getting a good player or one that will become good, but the ppl themselves have to get along. Not good if getting a player means everyones going to end up fighting and miserable.

Also, as @Henroo mentioned having some active players and some dead cities makes you look ripe for poaching

I guess that depends on the standards of the poacher as well. Some have no class and try to poach from fully active 25/25 cities. -_-
Now i have poached, in a sense, myself. But i have my own personal standards. - When there were times we needed 5+ ppl at once, id go looking through fs that were dead or dieing but still had a few active players in it. If i see some fs of 20 ppl but only 4 are left active or something like that, (assuming i thought they would be a gooodd fit) i would send all 4 a message asking if they would all be interested in coming over. But i see that as doing my fs some good, doing those 4 players some good, and not hurting the other fs cause its dead anyway. So all good, no harm. - If that still falls under the category of 'poaching' then i guess im guilty. - But if i saw a fs like mine, sitting at 24/25 with only two inactives, i would never try to recruit from them.

 

[Darielle]

I'm so reluctant to remove members that I keep them for months and months, only to find my "inactives" had grown to almost a third of my roster. Not good, so I cleaned house. And that hurt. If I had been more proactive I would have removed them sooner and probably been a more appealing fellowship for others to join. What's the "right" amount of time? Without any contact re RL, I'm now looking at 30 days. With contact I'll keep my members (active or not) so long as I get a message every 4-6 weeks. In other words, RL sometimes sucks, but you don't have to add insult to injury if they are around enough to send a msg once a month.

Anyway, hope you find a new (and great) fellowship. We've got lots of openings, if you are in Khelonar.

AJ

I think 30 days is a good plan, AJ. Any fellowship that has too many inactives is a target for recruiters to "rescue" the good players from the fellowship ... after all, recruiters believe that players in such fellowships are not going to be happy having fewer and fewer opportunities for trade, tourney help, etc. They're going to get restless, so it's better to pull them into an active fellowship than to see them leave the game, which happens too often. One of my best members told me he was planning to leave the game at the end of the week, if I hadn't offered him a spot in Thornwood. I'm so glad I got to him in time!

I check my fellowship on Elvenstats regularly (about once a week) and if I see any black triangles I make sure to contact the players and start the countdown before they're removed. I currently have 2 exceptions, because I know their situations and have given them both an additional month. They're the only ones with black triangles. I want to keep it that way because I would hate recruiters to think I didn't care about my fellowship and start picking away my best players. I get it, and I wouldn't blame them if I let my fellowship go to seed. I just won't take a chance on that.

Too many archmages believe that a fellowship with many members, no matter if inactive, "looks better" than one with 10 or 12 active members. The opposite is true, and they open themselves up to a lot of bad things if they keep that delusion. While I won't recruit from a fellowship that doesn't have at least half of the members with black triangles, I know a few archmages who start circling the waters when they see a fellowship with four or more. Heck, we've all been there at one time or another, including me, but it illustrates why it's so important for an AM to keep on top of things and to keep building activity, loyalty and happiness within the fs.

 

[shimmerfly]

So Sorry about your conumdrum @Aradia NightStar. I can understand you being hurt.
One of the reasons ( and I have many) I don't belong to a FS is because RL gets it the way and I don't think it's fair for me to expect one to put up with the time I can't be helpful. I don't like disappointing people.
Try not to take it to heart and move on and you may find something much better.
I wish you well!

 

[ajqtrz]

I think 30 days is a good plan, AJ. Any fellowship that has too many inactives is a target for recruiters to "rescue" the good players from the fellowship ... after all, recruiters believe that players in such fellowships are not going to be happy having fewer and fewer opportunities for trade, tourney help, etc. They're going to get restless, so it's better to pull them into an active fellowship than to see them leave the game, which happens too often. One of my best members told me he was planning to leave the game at the end of the week, if I hadn't offered him a spot in Thornwood. I'm so glad I got to him in time!

I check my fellowship on Elvenstats regularly (about once a week) and if I see any black triangles I make sure to contact the players and start the countdown before they're removed. I currently have 2 exceptions, because I know their situations and have given them both an additional month. They're the only ones with black triangles. I want to keep it that way because I would hate recruiters to think I didn't care about my fellowship and start picking away my best players. I get it, and I wouldn't blame them if I let my fellowship go to seed. I just won't take a chance on that.

Too many archmages believe that a fellowship with many members, no matter if inactive, "looks better" than one with 10 or 12 active members. The opposite is true, and they open themselves up to a lot of bad things if they keep that delusion. While I won't recruit from a fellowship that doesn't have at least half of the members with black triangles, I know a few archmages who start circling the waters when they see a fellowship with four or more. Heck, we've all been there at one time or another, including me, but it illustrates why it's so important for an AM to keep on top of things and to keep building activity, loyalty and happiness within the fs.

And the strange part is we continue to be a Silver and 11 chest fs with only 66% of a full roster. Have to wonder what will happen when we fill those 9 empties with really active/strong players. I suspect Gold will be in the works and 13-14 chests too.

Another way AM's look at it is that it's better to be in the "top X" (10, 20, 30, .... take your pick) than below since that, too, is how some players choose where to go. I never looked at the "actives/inactives" in my fs when I joined. I joined because, at the time, it was at 32, and I had received 4 invites. It was the highest ranked so that's where I landed. It then dropped to 51 because, unknown to me, some drama was occurring and they were playing the Great Hot Potato AM Game. After a few days it settled down and the new AM did a great job of making thing stable. In any case, we were 51 when I took over, years ago, and went up to 22. Now we are at 46 (most of it from the clean up) and I'm wondering if those seeking a "top level" fs will even look at us. Would be nice if they did and helped us go back up, but there are a few openings in fs's just as good (or better) than ours above us so we may have to do more recruiting...even if it's a lot of work.

Of course it all depends on finding those active players, and that, is difficult.

AJ

 

[crackie]

If they still have an open spot, this is prob easily resolved internally by contacting the Arch.

Prob isn't going to surprise anyone when I say I have and will kick people after 2 weeks because I really can't be bothered with drama anymore. However, I would have inquired in that time what's up at least twice and will also let them back if they apply after resurfacing. People with the courtesy to let mages know in advance that they'll have limited playing or game access have gone on month-long sabbaticals without issues. Heck, I've even booted friends! I've left a FS bc the Arch refuses to cull dead weight. In a casual FS, that would be fine and dandy, but in a competitive FS, that creates stagnation, artificially inhibits a FS's growth, and perpetuates boredom on a hamster wheel. For example, if we're in the hunt for FA and we're in second place, but we have like 3 spots reserved for the Arch's friends (using "buddies" here would be an insult) who can't even bother to show up for the past month...then why are they even here? More importantly, why can't they be replaced? Worse yet, I can clearly see the deadbeats are active in their other cities, meaning we're just not their priority FS. Running a stagnant FS with no room for growth to accommodate deadbeat friends is fine if that's your thing, but don't be surprised if competitive players all walk. And that's what happened. You place an artificial a ceiling on your FS to inhibit its growth, then some will outgrow the FS. So heck no, that will not happen on my watch! If I bring a friend aboard, they are expected to meet the FS standards, or it's a free ride on the trebuchet too, just like everyone else. If I vouch for someone, I expect them to live up to their end of the deal, just as I would expect myself to if someone else vouched for me to bring me onboard. Otherwise, over the wall you go, pal...no hard feelings. You can still chat with me on discord!

Yes, things come up, sometimes unplanned and unfortunate, but I'm tending a flock of 25, not one. I have a responsibility to uphold the standard the other players expect as well, or they are free to leave, like I did. Yeah, it's just a game, but there are also many adults capable of communications that play said game and I'm at the stage where I'd rather play with those types of players than babysit manbabies. If something were to happen where I am unable to contact anyone for a long stretch, then I would expect them to boot me to the curb too, even if I'm one of the most productive players or a longstanding veteran of the group. I'm not up for holding up the train for everyone else. I believe in such thing as accountability for yourself and your obligation to the group.

Lastly, we've had a few players that come out of retirement playing with us temporarily because their old FS was full. They're just hanging out with us until there's an opening in their old FS to go home. Therefore, if you really want to go back to play with your old friends, it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Dew Spinner]

If they still have an open spot, this is prob easily resolved internally by contacting the Arch.

Prob isn't going to surprise anyone when I say I have and will kick people after 2 weeks because I really can't be bothered with drama anymore. However, I would have inquired in that time what's up at least twice and will also let them back if they apply after resurfacing. People with the courtesy to let mages know in advance that they'll have limited playing or game access have gone on month-long sabbaticals without issues. Heck, I've even booted friends! I've left a FS bc the Arch refuses to cull dead weight. In a casual FS, that would be fine and dandy, but in a competitive FS, that creates stagnation, artificially inhibits a FS's growth, and perpetuates boredom on a hamster wheel. For example, if we're in the hunt for FA and we're in second place, but we have like 3 spots reserved for the Arch's friends (using "buddies" here would be an insult) who can't even bother to show up for the past month...then why are they even here? More importantly, why can't they be replaced? Worse yet, I can clearly see the deadbeats are active in their other cities, meaning we're just not their priority FS. Running a stagnant FS with no room for growth to accommodate deadbeat friends is fine if that's your thing, but don't be surprised if competitive players all walk. And that's what happened. You place an artificial a ceiling on your FS to inhibit its growth, then some will outgrow the FS. So heck no, that will not happen on my watch! If I bring a friend aboard, they are expected to meet the FS standards, or it's a free ride on the trebuchet too, just like everyone else. If I vouch for someone, I expect them to live up to their end of the deal, just as I would expect myself to if someone else vouched for me to bring me onboard. Otherwise, over the wall you go, pal...no hard feelings. You can still chat with me on discord!

Yes, things come up, sometimes unplanned and unfortunate, but I'm tending a flock of 25, not one. I have a responsibility to uphold the standard the other players expect as well, or they are free to leave, like I did. Yeah, it's just a game, but there are also many adults capable of communications that play said game and I'm at the stage where I'd rather play with those types of players than babysit manbabies. If something were to happen where I am unable to contact anyone for a long stretch, then I would expect them to boot me to the curb too, even if I'm one of the most productive players or a longstanding veteran of the group. I'm not up for holding up the train for everyone else. I believe in such thing as accountability for yourself and your obligation to the group.

Lastly, we've had a few players that come out of retirement playing with us temporarily because their old FS was full. They're just hanging out with us until there's an opening in their old FS to go home. Therefore, if you really want to go back to play with your old friends, it's not that big of a deal.

It would be interesting to know what the OP's FS Overview rules are, most FS Overviews that I have read state that notice to the AM or Mages is expected if a Players is to be absent more than X amount of days. When a Player joins a FS they are agreeing to the FS Overview rules. So regardless of whether there was a message from the AM to the Player, the Player should have messaged the AM first, if the above requirement is stated in the FS Overview. So, I believe what you are talking about is what has happened, a "long standing" player thought they were above the rules of the FS Overview and are now shocked to find out that the Trebuchet is for Everyone.

 

[Darielle]

And the strange part is we continue to be a Silver and 11 chest fs with only 66% of a full roster. Have to wonder what will happen when we fill those 9 empties with really active/strong players. I suspect Gold will be in the works and 13-14 chests too.

Another way AM's look at it is that it's better to be in the "top X" (10, 20, 30, .... take your pick) than below since that, too, is how some players choose where to go. I never looked at the "actives/inactives" in my fs when I joined. I joined because, at the time, it was at 32, and I had received 4 invites. It was the highest ranked so that's where I landed. It then dropped to 51 because, unknown to me, some drama was occurring and they were playing the Great Hot Potato AM Game. After a few days it settled down and the new AM did a great job of making thing stable. In any case, we were 51 when I took over, years ago, and went up to 22. Now we are at 46 (most of it from the clean up) and I'm wondering if those seeking a "top level" fs will even look at us. Would be nice if they did and helped us go back up, but there are a few openings in fs's just as good (or better) than ours above us so we may have to do more recruiting...even if it's a lot of work.

Of course it all depends on finding those active players, and that, is difficult.

AJ

Call yourself a "Top 50" fellowship and yeah, people will look at you. I never have much trouble recruiting for a full, active house, and we're at around the same rank as you (maybe a bit less since I sold off some things for the last FA and we're waiting for 1 player to come in tomorrow.)

 

[crackie]

Call yourself a "Top 50" fellowship and yeah, people will look at you. I never have much trouble recruiting for a full, active house, and we're at around the same rank as you (maybe a bit less since I sold off some things for the last FA and we're waiting for 1 player to come in tomorrow.)

It's true people give Top FS an extra look, but people shopping for a FS should still ideally sort by playing style than rank, I would hope. Top ranking FS doesn't necessarily translate to activity level. It mostly means there are some older players with bigger cities in the midst. Some of those players could just be massive paperweights that may not even be very active at all. In essence, a high ranking casual fellowship. On the flip side, you could have a very young FS full of little cities so they have a very poor overall ranking, but are hyperactive and not yet jaded by the game. In which case, they could run laps around the top fellowships. So it depends on what a player is looking for out of their FS.

 

[Katwick]

It's true people give Top FS an extra look, but people shopping for a FS should still ideally sort by playing style than rank, I would hope. Top ranking FS doesn't necessarily translate to activity level. It mostly means there are some older players with bigger cities in the midst. Some of those players could just be massive paperweights that may not even be very active at all. In essence, a high ranking casual fellowship. On the flip side, you could have a very young FS full of little cities so they have a very poor overall ranking, but are hyperactive and not yet jaded by the game. In which case, they could run laps around the top fellowships. So it depends on what a player is looking for out of their FS.

For both Fellowships and Fellows, Elvenstats is a wonderful source for determining if they are growing with the game.

 

[Tuschunreal]

sorry for your pain...I am a pretty new archmage and still feel guilty removing inactive players. I hope I don't cause someone facing real life any unnecessary anguish.

 

[Myne]

I responded to the messages telling me I have been kicked out. And I do understand removing members when they go MIA, and wanting to remain competitive, it’s just… I have been one of the core members for several years. Higher ranking, above average activity, very friendly and welcoming on chat and in messages. If there had been a message after a week or two asking if I planned to come back to the game, and then another message a week or two later letting me know they were removing me to make room for new/active members, then I might feel differently. But the fellowship removed me and just to have an empty spot in their ranks. And just a message saying I’ve been removed, no comments or concern or anything. I know I’m being overly sensitive but these are people I’ve been chatting with for years. And things are really rough for me right now. Just feeling hurt.

Edited to add that this is the first time I have ever been gone from the game for more than a week. I have consistently been active and reliable for years.

I do not think you are wrong for feeling hurt. If you've been there for years and very active, and don't even get an inquiry into your health, something is wrong. And honestly, I don't think I would want to go back. Good luck in finding a good fit. Hang in there.

 

[thx569]

Don't feel too bad. I was once summarily kicked out because I took a posted trade allegedly aimed for someone else. i was called greedy and then very quickly booted. I had no Idea that trades required permission before taking them. Life goes on and I am currently in a fellowship of 2 and no longer have to deal with power trip people. Yes, it's hurtful and it sucks , but.........

 

[mucksterme]

Don't feel too bad. I was once summarily kicked out because I took a posted trade allegedly aimed for someone else. i was called greedy and then very quickly booted. I had no Idea that trades required permission before taking them. Life goes on and I am currently in a fellowship of 2 and no longer have to deal with power trip people. Yes, it's hurtful and it sucks , but.........

Oh wow. You just reminded me of something that happened to me. In one of my now abandoned cities a couple years ago.
I joined an FS that a guy from the forum was trying to get going and I thought I could help him out.
Similar thing happened to me as you.
I got accused of being greedy because I "took all the three star trades."
The people who said that didn't seem to notice that I took ALL the FS trades I saw, 3 star, 2 star, cross tier whatever. And they also ignored the fact that I was posting generous ( + 20% ) trades.
I wasn't there long.
And I noticed the fs didn't last long.