Knowledge Point Clubs - an analysis

[DeletedUser61]

First, do you know some knowledge as to the release of additional Wonders?

Our Elvenar Wiki states, "Each base race (Humans and Elves) will have the opportunity to unlock 2 Ancient Wonders at the end of chapter IV and at the end of chapter VI you will be in a position to access 2 more Ancient Wonders for the guest race - Dwarves." It doesn't take much imagination to realize that every Guest Race is going to add two more Great Wonders.

The Wonders we chose to build are progressing nicely, thank you.

If you think you're doing nicely, I'm certainly not going to try to change your mind.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

[This is the first release for Ancient Wonders and, while we have the buildings themselves,
we anticipate that additional support infrastructure will provided by the time that we need it.

1. A history of the contributions to the previous AW levels, hopefully with a Date of Completion. We need the history so that we can reliable return contributions in kind. This is a necessary feature for managing any sort of KP Club.

Any schedule on the infrastructure yet. Players have been proceeding without clear directions.

Contribute KPs to one of the targeted AWs

• When you've contributed enough points to cover (half of) your own level, YOUR building will be targeted.

Does this comply with "Don't contribute to an Ancient Wonder until the owner has covered a third of the points."

To your point, I'm a full six months ahead of the curve. This is a white paper whose purpose is getting folks thinking about the "right things."

Sorry to press you on schedule (I lied) but my life in supervising engineers has taught me to repeat myself, repeat myself.... Is there a plan to move beyond white paper?

In Elvenar, KP clubs won't be feasible until we have at least a history tab for each AW, and KP packets so that you can tactically drop 60 or so KPs all at once,

KP clubs soon?

I'm trying to SHAPE the KP Club discussion,

When are we going to move to the implementation phase?

There's no need for surprises here in Elvenar. You might as well set up Ancient Wonder procedures that will accommodate the most likely reality, and not sweat the hazards that will evaporate as soon as adequate support is available.

OK I'm ready for reality in the context of playing a game. Adequate support is coming soon as....

Post merge by the swamp creatures
Is there any way to have our progress on AW NOT share with everyone?
"Don't contribute to an Ancient Wonder until the owner has covered a third of the points." Did u dumb this down far enough so I don't have to look up so high?

 

[DeletedUser61]

We're both making educated guesses, nothing more.

If folks can see your Ancient Wonder, then they can't contribute to it either.

If an owner contributes 1/3 of the points, that makes the rest of the points 50% more rewarding.

If the owner is participating in a swap agreement, because he can't get contributions any other way, then he has to up the ante even higher,
40%+40%+20% usually works, because at 80% you can advertise that at 10% contribution will lock down 25% of the awards. If you STILL don't have any luck, then push it on up to 50%+50%.

We do not yet have KP award packets, which gimps the Reverse Chicken game because nobody can scrape up more than about 15 points at a time. Without packets, just getting started first and hanging in there will win first place. Ho Hum.

We also need a history tab, because right now, once the owner has open the next level, there's no way to look back to see who contributed to the previous level(s). A spreadsheet base club will routinely level an AW in a couple of days, so we need a better history so that we can avoid missing large chunks of data.

Quick and easy?? Don't contribute to an Ancient Wonder until the owner has covered a third of the points.
is definitely a bumper sticker.

• Rotation clubs are terrible. They tie up way to many KPs for too long, and they're very fragile.
• Once the owner has contributed 1/3, then two contributors can go after 1st and 2nd place with a 50% bonus right out of the gate.
• Once folks DO start contributing to your AW, you should respond in kind.
• Using a spreadsheet allows a KP Club the be far more efficient, as everybody can PileOn the two or three AWs that are the most deserving. So you're only investing in 1 AW at a time, your KPs are only tied up for a couple of days, and you can compound your dividends twice a week.
• Using an informal approach takes twice as long (if you're working at it) and you're investing in both your own AW and one or two others, so your weekly dividends are only 20% of what a spreadsheet base KP Club can deliver.
• With the current limitations, just muddling through works nearly as well as being organized.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

Sorry to press you on schedule (I lied) but my life in supervising engineers has taught me to repeat myself, repeat myself.... Is there a plan to move beyond white paper?

When are we going to move to the implementation phase?

We're both making educated guesses, nothing more.

Several weeks? Months?
Thank-you

 

[DeletedUser61]

Several weeks? Months?

Yes

Some of the "press ahead" releases, even though there were obvious problems that needed to be fixed, suggests that InnoGames has a PERT chart that they're chasing, but major glitches like reworking the questing structure, and the increasingly painful inability to move isolated cities, will put the kibosh on the schedule because the developers have to divert resources to put out the fires.

There's also a bit of a mystery regarding the threshold for release 1.0, and if it will actually make any difference.

If you want to play some mind games, take a look at http://www.eightroads.com/ which is a major, perhaps THE major, private equity funding source for Elvenar.

As a private investment firm with permanent capital, we can invest with a long time horizon. This supports our focus on innovative and ambitious businesses looking to disrupt or lead their chosen markets.

I'd go so far as to suggest that elbowing SimCity and Tilted Mill out of the City Builder catbird seat is what's driving the development cycle for Elvenar.

So, yes

 

[DeletedUser1122]

private equity funding source for Elvenar.

I thought Fidelity Growth Partners was the major investor and a public offering was around the bend. High FCF, low overhead, generating 450 mil in euros. Going across multiply platforms starting to look at the globe but alas I'm not an investor
So months it is. Don't wonder things are getting slower.
The boys did good with their hobby.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I thought Fidelity Growth Partners was the major investor

See http://fgpe.com/

Fidelity Growth Partners Europe is now

starting to look at the globe

Take a peek at https://www.innogames.com/en/blog/2012/09/forge-of-empires-new-kingdoms-in-korea/

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I sit corrected

 

[DeletedUser627]

Our Elvenar Wiki states, "....

If you think you're doing nicely, I'm certainly not going to try to change your mind.

*laughing* I should know by now to not pull my punches with you - your sense of fair play is non-existent. If you can't marshal facts to support your opinion, you don't concede, you just resort to snide comment.

Of course we "think" we're doing nicely, with facts to support our opinion. Peruse the cities of players beginning with 1 - what you'll find is impressive - players with fully completed L10 Mountain Halls, and multiple other Wonders at levels often over 5. This doesn't support your initial assertion that top players would have incomplete Wonders sitting around. (I'm not going to look up the exact quote, but this is a reasonable paraphrase).

I'm inferring from the converation with 6pac that your KP Club currently isn't past the design stage? One would hope so. If you have been implementing the plan, given the level of your Wonders, I'd be looking for a better plan. Likely I'd be messaging Tanjab, for example.

On another note, I think we got the message that you're advising not to contribute to a Wonder until the owner has contributed 1/3 of the points. Do I correctly recollect that somewhere in all the discussion of Wonders you also stated the folly of contributing to one's own Wonder - as a sort of wasted KP since there would be no dividend? How do these reconcile?

 

[DeletedUser594]

Yes

and the increasingly painful inability to move isolated cities, will put the kibosh on the schedule because the developers have to divert resources to put out the fires.

So, yes

What is the hang up on implementing some sort of system of moving people?

 

[DeletedUser1122]

If you want to play some mind games,

No

 

[DeletedUser1122]

that your KP Club currently isn't past the design stage?

I think its in the "twinkle" in the eye stage, pre-conceptual development phase.

What is the hang up on implementing some sort of system of moving people

1. "major glitches like reworking the questing structure, and the increasingly painful inability to move isolated cities, will put the kibosh on the schedule because the developers have to divert resources to put out the fires."
2. "forge-of-empires-new-kingdoms-in-korea/"
Fix the broken takes effort and pursue the $$$$$$$$$$. The push is an IPO offer for INNO games and for that you need realized and potential profit.
That's my guess until proven wrong again

 

[DeletedUser61]

the folly of contributing to one's own Wonder - as a sort of wasted KP since there would be no dividend? How do these reconcile?

The ultimate folly is to contribute to an Ancient Wonder that just going to sit there, partially full.

• If you have a dependable group of contributors, which is the purpose of an organized KP Club, then you can rely on others for all of the points.
• If you're relying on the kindness of strangers, or you're in a fellowship that's casual about their Ancient Wonders, then the 1/3rd owner contributions are indicator that your own contributions will pay off some time soon, and you can test the waters to determine if the owner will respond in kind.

(a few hours later)

I did some digging to make sure that I wasn't missing something, and found two bits of information that I consider to be relevant.

PileOn_	Name____	Bal	Gol	Ancient_	L	Prg	/ Size
-021 b-g	Taam_____	-021	000	Crystal Li	3	310	/ 310
-046 b-g	Ard Ri Eamo	-002	044	Crystal Li	1	131	/ 175
-097 b-g	rockett1212_	-050	047	Crystal Li	4	333	/ 380
-129 b-g	Aylinn_____	-095	034	Crystal Li	3	244	/ 310
-136 b-g	ken112____	-109	027	Crystal Li	2	188	/ 250
-157 b-g	cheddarja___	-136	021	Mountian	6	469	/ 490
-172 b-g	ken112____	-109	063	Marital M	2	152	/ 250
-199 b-g	Peterpan___	-025	174	Crystal Li	3	136	/ 310
-180 b-g	Monomacho	-215	-035	Marital M	2	250	/ 250

• In Fair Trade Original, wherever somebody has contributed more than 1/3rd of the points, it's the owner EVERY TIME, as you can verify by looking at the above listed Ancient Wonders. So I've provided the theoretical basis for Owner contributions, and the members of your own Fellowship are doing exactly that, in practice.
• You don't have an Ancient Wonder of your own, although you're making significant contributions to other AWs, so you're probably chasing Rune Shards. You'll be dismayed by how hard it is to attract contributors.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I think its in the "twinkle" in the eye stage, pre-conceptual development phase.

I've been managing a Forge Point Club in Forge of Empires, one with 40 members, for well more than a year using a similar model. I'll include you in the message group if you're in FoE > Brisgard.

The Elvenar KP Club spreadsheet is fully functional, and I've been using it for the various recaps that I've been posting.

What's NOT available is:

• KP Award packets, to prevent overflow for one thing, but the important aspect is that the KP packets can be used tactically to capture an award slot, when you lose your nerve.
• An AW History tab, so we can accurately track the sprint to the finish.
• A global list of Ancient Wonders, with some of the functionality that's available at http://www.forge-db.com/us/us2/gbs/?server=us2&world=Brisgard. You're welcome to search for "Katwijk."
• A greater variety of Ancient Wonders, so that there's a need for some traffic control.

There's also a lot of mediocre approaches out there, such as the Never Ending 5 Point Contribution message chains, that are horridly inefficient, so there's an educational element for those who prefer to optimize their results.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

We are not sure we want to spend the relics and lose the space on AW so far today. We're still debating the cost/benefit. The spread sheets are flying. We built four and stopped building any more. The chap with the 1/3 of the points went inactive. We think we may have lost 4 more. Ho hmm.
Fellowship needs members will provide beer I think that is a clear mission statement with set goals, goodies and clear trading policy. Right Missanthropy?
Have fun, it is a game

 

[DeletedUser68]

Fellowship needs members will provide beer I think that is a clear mission statement with set goals, goodies and clear trading policy.

That sounds like a plan to me. Have them put a round on my chit.

 

[DeletedUser627]

,,,

• You don't have an Ancient Wonder of your own, although you're making significant contributions to other AWs, so you're probably chasing Rune Shards. You'll be dismayed by how hard it is to attract contributors.

I have a Mountain Hall half through Level 10, thank you. And a full set of shards for all Wonders , and upgrades, for quite some time now. I haven't built the other Wonders because they don't currently offer any advantage to me.

One of the advantages of rank is that visibility attracts contributors. Personally, though, I started contributing to my own Wonder once the KP requirements went up over 300 - it just didn't seem polite to expect others to input so much for 1-2 little shards. Twice I put in most of the KP and then notified my fellowship members so the ones needing a shard could get one inexpensively.

I know that large cities are anathema to you, but mine gives me the ability to play with, for lack of a better term, noblesse oblige. I enjoy fellow players and enjoy assisting when possible - and "excess" goods and KP give me the ability to do so often. When it comes to managing my own city, I agree with you that it's best to be mathematical and logical...but with fellow players I prefer to be less calculating. We already have a PvD[eveloper] game, so I know my adversary - and it's not the players building Wonders.

 

[DeletedUser61]

It's Bobbykitty who doesn't have an AW. I misspoke Player vs Developer (PvD) is a nice coinage, and it's entirely accurate for a city builder Rather than just showing n Open slots when a building is targeted, I'm going to experiment with showing the Owner's %, as that's directly related to the Dividend %

 

[DeletedUser43]

Yup. My struggle to get an ancient wonder shows how hard they are to get if you are a free player. I hope it won't be too much longer before I get my mountain halls shards. The last 7 shards have broken. But ha ha....they can't stop me forever! Only 2 more broken shards and I get my hall! As soon as Ju's upgrade is complete I am there!!

 

[DeletedUser627]

Yup. My struggle to get an ancient wonder shows how hard they are to get if you are a free player. I hope it won't be too much longer before I get my mountain halls shards. The last 7 shards have broken. But ha ha....they can't stop me forever! Only 2 more broken shards and I get my hall!

And when you do, I can guarantee it will set record speed for upgrades!