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    Your Elvenar Team

Knowledge Sharing Perk Strategies

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Killy-

Well-Known Member
We have net0 and kp swap threads. Our players either use the perk in the swap thread or they have a partner and exchange the kps. For net0 the partner fills the top chest and puts the perk kps on top. I myself just dump the points in wonders of a net0 player until I filled a chest and move on to the next wonder.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Lets say fellowship A has 3 levels of tournament perk. They fill it 1 week and then they use it the next week to get an extra bonus chest. This means over the 2 week period every FS member has gotten 1 Royal Restoration and a 10 pt AW knowledge instant.

Fellowship B has 3 levels of knowledge sharing. Over a 2 week period every single fellowship member will receive 42 points to drop on the AWs of their fellowship members. It's really no comparison as far as leveling up AWs goes.

Assuming it is an active fellowship with every member using their points every day, I can see why this would be attractive. But even in active fellowships, you'd have an uneven distribution with some people forgetting to add the kp some days. There even may be some days of the month that, for some reason, consistently get less people donating. I can see having to smooth a few ruffled feathers in that case, if someone is stuck with that particular day on a regular basis. But if the details are ironed out, it may be very lucrative.

Edit to add that I think Dopeykr is right; it would be unfair to those members who have no wonders yet. Some accommodation would have to be made to them to make up for the period when they were donating for no benefit.
 

Hawk1911

Active Member
We're using a swap thread now. Seems to be working well.

We tried a variation of your 1st option, keeping all donations to a single person for a week, then move up to the next, planning a 25 week rotation. There was confusion about who gets the kp, complaints about fairness etc. So we moved to the swap.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I just set up a perks trade email the same as our 5 KP, 10 KP & 20 KP swaps. I prefer the old fashioned way. It is working well in my FS. I just wouldn't want the trading to get stopped midday because we have someone missing. I also can't see the other ways people talk about for KP swaps since my AW's run around 1000-2000 while smaller city AW might only run around 200+. It is working very well for us. I did activate 1 level of the advanced help one to give that extra time for gold hands visits. We are up to 4 KP per day and looking forward to it becoming 5.
 

Soleil Nightbloom

Well-Known Member
So on the first day of the month your top ranked member gets all the points.
I really like your approach on how you use the Kp perks. I was thinking about doing something similar when we eventually get around to upgrading them. I would like to know, what if the top ranked member is the AM? To keep fairness/ peace within the fellowship, I would suggest the AM go last and start with the second top ranked player in this scenario. I would like to know how you or anyone else would approach this situation?
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
What my fellowship does is that on the first day of the month, everyone dumps the free points in the #1 ranked member's AW. On the 2nd day of the month, the #2 ranked member. So on and so forth. That takes care of the first 25 days of the month. This is our first month doing this and we are actually still debating what to do in the final days of the month.

I did think about this idea but if contributions turn out to be uneven day to day I think it could open the door to resentments if someone feels cheated. I mean it seems to me that there is no guard to keep it even and fair. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad if it is working for your FS but it would be a risk I wouldn't want to take. This perk is such a plus that I would hate to see it turn into a negative. It is hard enough finding and keeping good players.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
lol I'm not a general
It's not really so much about 'commanding' as it is trying to ward off arguments, hurt feelings, and just more pm's to AM/Mages when someone thinks they've been 'cheated'. It took at least 3 years of playing before I saw it, but in the past almost 2 years, I've seen more of those across 2 FSs than I can remember. The one that stands out is one that accused the AM of running a Ponzi scam via the AW targets spreadsheet and had some members falling for their fuzzy math. :rolleyes: In the less than a yr I've been an AM, I've gotten more pm's about discrepancies in kp swaps than any other single issue. In that FS, we're not all daily players, and we decided the group will benefit more from other perks for the time being. (Not to mention the impact on my sanity for not creating yet another thing someone needs to msg me about.)
The other FS, we're using pairs. It's easy to do at the same time you're doing the required daily visits. It just went to 2kp/day there. By the time we're swapping 10kp/day, we'll have had time to work out any kinks, but for now it's working well. The numbers are small enough it was easy to see when I had somehow missed a day, so I just dropped 1 regular kp in when I saw it >>dusts hands<< Sorted.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
I did think about this idea but if contributions turn out to be uneven day to day I think it could open the door to resentments if someone feels cheated. I mean it seems to me that there is no guard to keep it even and fair. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad if it is working for your FS but it would be a risk I wouldn't want to take. This perk is such a plus that I would hate to see it turn into a negative. It is hard enough finding and keeping good players.
There IS going to be some variance. No way around it. But I think since the entire fellowship targets each member once a day, the law of averages should mostly balance it out. All the other methods we could think of seemed like there was even more chance of unfairness. For example, we considered having each player just give points to the person under them in the fellowship list. But then if the person above you gets sick for a week or goes on vacation for a week, then you miss out. The same issues was a potential problem with assigning a buddy system for swaps.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
I really like your approach on how you use the Kp perks. I was thinking about doing something similar when we eventually get around to upgrading them. I would like to know, what if the top ranked member is the AM? To keep fairness/ peace within the fellowship, I would suggest the AM go last and start with the second top ranked player in this scenario. I would like to know how you or anyone else would approach this situation?
Why would it matter if the AM goes first or goes last? The main point of this system is to ensure that everyone gets 1 day a month where the entire FS is dumping points in their AW.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
It's not really so much about 'commanding' as it is trying to ward off arguments, hurt feelings, and just more pm's to AM/Mages when someone thinks they've been 'cheated'. It took at least 3 years of playing before I saw it, but in the past almost 2 years, I've seen more of those across 2 FSs than I can remember. The one that stands out is one that accused the AM of running a Ponzi scam via the AW targets spreadsheet and had some members falling for their fuzzy math. :rolleyes: In the less than a yr I've been an AM, I've gotten more pm's about discrepancies in kp swaps than any other single issue. In that FS, we're not all daily players, and we decided the group will benefit more from other perks for the time being. (Not to mention the impact on my sanity for not creating yet another thing someone needs to msg me about.)
The other FS, we're using pairs. It's easy to do at the same time you're doing the required daily visits. It just went to 2kp/day there. By the time we're swapping 10kp/day, we'll have had time to work out any kinks, but for now it's working well. The numbers are small enough it was easy to see when I had somehow missed a day, so I just dropped 1 regular kp in when I saw it >>dusts hands<< Sorted.

I don't do spreadsheets. My peeps don't care for them and neither do I. I have never been accused of favoritism, but I can understand how that gets old quick, especially when you are doing your best to be fair to all.
I tell my fellowship regarding FAs and regular play that I am not going to tell them what to make or how to play, nor will I make them adhere to spreadsheets. We are only as good as we as a fellowship want to be. They are supposed to be grown people and can see what we need and know that their part is as important as anyone elses. I have enough to do as AM without keeping up with all that. They are really good cheerleaders for each other, and that encourages more effort.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I don't do spreadsheets. My peeps don't care for them and neither do I.
I am the opposite. I spreadsheet everything :D
But only me or another mage runs them so the group as a whole doesn’t have to worry about it. It’s visible to all if they ever want to follow it for transparency. With FAs though, the spreadsheet is more like training wheels. Once I take them to Top 10, the less there is to plan. In my FS that finished 1st, we actually do zero planning for FAs, and this surprises people. If you can finish Top 10, your group is active enough to finish all 3 maps handily so there is less need to plan. Mostly, it’s handy to track the straggler list to know who still hasn’t put in badges.

The one that stands out is one that accused the AM of running a Ponzi scam via the AW targets spreadsheet and had some members falling for their fuzzy math.
I made ours optional to join, and a few do their own thing. I explain the pros and cons before they join so they know what they are in for, as it isn’t a perfect system. Most come from swap threads and prefer this method though. I like it for speed and efficiency, esp if you are tech locked and just need to empty your KP bar without needing to wait for right combo of denominations to swap. Large 1000+ KP wonders only take a day or two to finish. Not everyone signs in every day to use their free daily KPs but those that do spend it gets credited bc the AWs are tracked.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@crackie
I wasn't the AM in that FS, but the AW swap was also optional, a few didn't join, spreadsheet managed by AM/Mages and visible to all members. All the rules/explanations are posted on a private FS website maintained for the group where new members are invited in their original Welcome msg. If you don't/can't use external sites for the game, info will be provided in pm. That FS has been around at least a year, maybe more before I even started playing the game and some members who were second guessing themselves because of the fuzzy math had been in the FS for forever! I think that's why I remember it. No matter how old I get, I'm still amazed at how some people's brains work...
I use spreadsheets myself for everything, lol! Need to wrap my brain around a new feature (like Perks)? Spreadsheet and use a wonderful spreadsheet perks calculator developed by someone much better at spreadsheets than I am. Ok, got it. Now I need to figure out how many Spire pts we need stored to insure Gold (we're solid Silver, but the one gold push we tried and did not make gold, we lost momentum in the Spire as a group) for a push week: Spreadsheet...track it for a few weeks with a running avg...
In the FS where I'm AM, no one wants anything to do with spreadsheets; it's hard enough to get them to list inventory in a message, lol! Me and one of the Mages run the spreadsheet and badger ask members for their badge inventory/updates in a message for a week. Funny enough, that's the FS that's almost always all-in for the FA's with 7 top ten finishes and top 20 for the majority of the others. Participation is different in every single one. A person who was between chapters and running massive lvl 1 farms one FA ends up mid chapter with a full city and few badges the next. Someone who does one badge/stage in one FA due to rl ends up with massive farms in the next. We've taken a break a few times when things seemed to be coming at us constantly and gone with 'one and done' for each stage, got the prizes and that was it, but not often.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
We simply donate to the one below us in the fellowship listing. easy peasy
What about when players miss a day, or several days?
Nothing to be done about that unfortunately, no matter what plan you go with.
Not true, using pairs solves absences easily since you simply settle up later
-------------------
What about reward chests?
What about them?
Well if I donate to the person below me and get back 75 KP from a chest reward on their wonder and the person above me give me KP for no chest reward that';s hardly fair, is it?
 

Soleil Nightbloom

Well-Known Member
Why would it matter if the AM goes first or goes last? The main point of this system is to ensure that everyone gets 1 day a month where the entire FS is dumping points in their AW.
If the AM is the top player and they go first it could give the impression that they are favoring themselves.
 
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