KP Sharing threads

[Kekune]

Not sure why you say you would have to have real time. If someone says they have given you 25 and there is only 10 on the AW, you would pretty much know that they didn't give you the whole 25, right?

It does get hard to track after awhile. If your group has 5 different thread denominations going, and someone says they just gave you 30 kp, and you see that you now have 40 kp from them but you're pretty sure you already had 20 before the 30 donation, but you're not totally sure because there's already been 400kp entered from several people over the last 2 weeks... you might not know (or even be able to figure out) if they gave you 30 just now or not.

You have to go into it with trust and a degree of acceptance that it won't go flawlessly, or be prepared to spend an awful lot of time and energy verifying every donation.

 

[Ashrem]

Not sure why you say you would have to have real time. If someone says they have given you 25 and there is only 10 on the AW, you would pretty much know that they didn't give you the whole 25, right?

That works at low levels, but what if they say they gave you 25 and there is 649 on the AW (out of hte 1100 needed), including 175 from them?

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

To let everyone know - they are certainly not mandatory.
Thanks for everyone'ts input!


Not sure why you say you would have to have real time. If someone says they have given you 25 and there is only 10 on the AW, you would pretty much know that they didn't give you the whole 25, right?

What I meant was that you would have to have a list of contributors beforehand. I contribute to AW's multiple times, so unless you knew how many I put in before, how would you know if I shorted you unless you were at the end of your research

 

[truelinor]

What I meant was that you would have to have a list of contributors beforehand. I contribute to AW's multiple times, so unless you knew how many I put in before, how would you know if I shorted you unless you were at the end of your research

Well, if you've just started working on it, you could tell if there weren't as many KPs as the person said they gave. Like if there was only 10 from them and they posted on a 30 KP thread. Obviously you didn't get 30 if there's only 10 there.

 

[truelinor]

It does get hard to track after awhile. If your group has 5 different thread denominations going, and someone says they just gave you 30 kp, and you see that you now have 40 kp from them but you're pretty sure you already had 20 before the 30 donation, but you're not totally sure because there's already been 400kp entered from several people over the last 2 weeks... you might not know (or even be able to figure out) if they gave you 30 just now or not.

You have to go into it with trust and a degree of acceptance that it won't go flawlessly, or be prepared to spend an awful lot of time and energy verifying every donation.

That works at low levels, but what if they say they gave you 25 and there is 649 on the AW (out of hte 1100 needed), including 175 from them?

Sorry, I went to the end of the thread so didn't see your replies until afterwards.

I do understand there are plenty of occasions where you wouldn't be sure and where, quite frankly, I do just "go into it with trust and a degree of acceptance", in fact I would say most of the time. However, I was referring to those few and far between occasions when you can tell. If no one says anything about it, what do you do then? If it was only 5 or 10 KP, I would probably not say or do anything about it - but what if it's 50?

 

[Kekune]

However, I was referring to those few and far between occasions when you can tell. If no one says anything about it, what do you do then? If it was only 5 or 10 KP, I would probably not say or do anything about it - but what if it's 50?

If we catch it in the moment, we say so in chat. If we catch it later, we sort it out in private messages. Usually, both parties see it as a mistake and work it out together. If your group normally communicates pretty well, it shouldn't be a big deal. Some people don't like to take any chances and just opt out of the system, but that's fine too.

 

[NightshadeCS]

If someone is a problem, as in intentionally not donating what they state, then of course that should be brought up to the archmage, or the person in charge of the swap threads (if there is such a person). In my experience, it has never been a factor. That person would not only be out of the swap threads, they would be out of our FS.

Mistakes, however, happen in the normal course of things and are usually cleared up easily in chat or a separate message, as the case may be. My tips for minimizing mistakes are:
1. Always post first, then donate.
2. State the name of the person you are donating to so that duplicates can be spotted quickly and easily.
3. After posting, open the thread one more time to make sure you haven't made a duplicate, then go and donate to the individual (used to be easier when you could click on the name to go to their city. I would like the ability to click on the name in message and see the AW screen).

We had a slight issue with a new person to whom we did not explain the swap thread in enough detail. They would post in the swap thread but not state who they had donated to. We came to find out she was just giving out the right amount in small increments to a lot of different people. Luckily, it was not more than 100 KP that got distributed. As a mage in my FS, I stepped in and messaged the people involved, trying to figure out what went wrong. I then donated both to the people who were skipped and the person who made the mistake, since I am not against shelling out some instants in order to preserve FS harmony. This is an extreme case and the only time in several years of KP swap threads that I have encountered such a problem.

 

[Bunck]

Good information, but this "KP Threads" discussion starts and ends in 2020. Did it move somewhere else? It seems like a topic new arrivals (like me in Feb 2022) would keep bringing up. I am trying to start a 15 KP thread, to facilitate the use of Rune Shards as donations. Worth 10 KP applied to your own Ancient Wonder (AW), they are worth 15 KP if donated to someone else's AW. So, if you swap, 20 KP becomes 30 KP and everyone gets a 5 KP kickback for donating. Sweet! Why did I have to figure it out on my own? Why are my Fellowships (FSs) using 10 KP Threads, and missing out on this 50% bonus on every donation? What can't I explain it to people convinced its a pyramid scam? And, is Anne McCaffrey the reason so many are reluctant to even try particpating in any "Threads?"

 

[Flashfyre]

Most KP Sharing threads are determined/approved by a FS Archmage; they may (as in my FS) delegate the management of the threads to another member.
The values of each thread are, usually, set to correspond to one of the various AWKP instants; this is why you see 30, 20, 15, 10, and 5 threads. Larger value threads are usually done for a FS specific reason (in my FS case, we have a 45 and a 60 thread for rune shard exchanges).

As to why your FS isn't supporting the shard exchange? Can't answer that. But it sounds like your FS isn't the best fit for you, maybe.

 

[Zoof]

idk if it's that typical, but the KP threads in my fellowship are each managed by whoever volunteers for that job at the moment. Usually the same one. I've also been rather oblivious to the inner workings of it and have mostly trusted everyone to do their thing, waiting a few hours in case the thread(s) versus what is in your AW differs noticeably before raising a complaint. Which has never actually happened. The complaining part, I mean. Sometimes delays and outages do occur at the worst time. I like to believe we're all adults here.

But one thing I do know is that KP donation threads where I'm at are done by value, not by cost. For example, if you post in a 50KP thread, your obligation to the prior person is a measurable and easily countable 50KP, regardless of how many units of resources it cost you to put that 50KP in. Ideally, it'd cost you 30KP worth of runes that you could've used towards yourself plus another 5KP instant. It'd totally suck to be you if you accidentally threw diamonds at the problem. It'd be totally hilarious if you did it by spending coins.

Anyhoo. If you agree to swap 30 KP and you only spent 20KP to provide 30 KP, does it really matter how much they spent to reciprocate? If they actually spent the full KP amount or accidentally diamonded themselves, that's a them problem, not a you problem.

 

[samidodamage]

And, is Anne McCaffrey the reason so many are reluctant to even try particpating in any "Threads?"

This one sentence makes you my favorite poster!

For some possible answers on why your FS is having issues, go here.
The black triangles next to member names indicate they may have stopped playing. On browser, you can hover over the triangle to see the last time there was a score change in their city. Looks like you have 5 inactive members, one of whom is the Archmage (who hasn't had a score change since late January 2022!).
My opinion: you need a new FS.
You can use that site to research any FS you may be interested in joining and avoid jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

I'm in one in Khelonaar that has an opening. It may not be a good fit for you, either, but if you're interested, send me a pm either here or in-game and we'll talk.
We're all daily active players and our requirements for membership reflect that activity (daily visits, minimum contributions required weekly for tourney/spire, etc). We have done away with KP Swap threads and Wonder Society/Spreadsheet swaps. We use the NetZero method for kp swaps. We are a Gold Spire FS and have a FS website provided for us by the AM with loads of game info. We're willing to work with newer/smaller cities to give them ideas (from various styles of play with combat, catering and hybrid city players) on ways to design their city to meet the minimums/reap the benefits of FS rewards in tourney/spire. I've not seen it take any longer than 2-3 weeks for a small city to reach those goals and we've taken cities as small as Chapter 2.

 

[crackie]

All the FS I've been in have used Swap threads, but I don't like them because I'm a zero-inbox gal so I don't like seeing all those unread envelope msgs. Besides being spammy, I also hate having to collect the right denominations to use the threads because I perpetually have hourly KP to spend as I am tech locked a often. When I started my own fellowship, I studied the Wonder Society system and ditched Swap threads immediately. Most of the people that joined my FS come from Swap threads as well. There is usually explaining to introduce the new system. Having tried something different though, nobody wants to go back to Swap threads. It's me (AM) and one mage that handles updating the spreadsheet. We each update it once a day so it gets 2 updates daily. Overall, I think it's worth the time spent investigating in the system. Coming from a computer background though, you know it's worth the initial labor up front so that computers can do the dirty work later and you can kick back and put your feet up. Things got a little crazy and screwy once they introduced the Runes for KP thing, but it's settled down more or less now. Living the spreadsheet life!

 

[ajqtrz]

All the FS I've been in have used Swap threads, but I don't like them because I'm a zero-inbox gal so I don't like seeing all those unread envelope msgs. Besides being spammy, I also hate having to collect the right denominations to use the threads because I perpetually have hourly KP to spend as I am tech locked a often. When I started my own fellowship, I studied the Wonder Society system and ditched Swap threads immediately. Most of the people that joined my FS come from Swap threads as well. There is usually explaining to introduce the new system. Having tried something different though, nobody wants to go back to Swap threads. It's me (AM) and one mage that handles updating the spreadsheet. We each update it once a day so it gets 2 updates daily. Overall, I think it's worth the time spent investigating in the system. Coming from a computer background though, you know it's worth the initial labor up front so that computers can do the dirty work later and you can kick back and put your feet up. Things got a little crazy and screwy once they introduced the Runes for KP thing, but it's settled down more or less now. Living the spreadsheet life!

Exactly. To do any spreadsheet based system you have to keep the data up to date and know how to build it in the first place. If you have a couple of people that are willing and able to do that, it can work very well. If not, well, not so well. I think that's probably the reason Wonder Society systems aren't used by a lot of fellowships. At least that's my impression. I do wonder though, if there's a correlation between rank and the various methods. It would be interesting to find out, wouldn't it?

AJ

 

[Mykan]

While problems with them are infrequent I do find they happen more often then people like to admit. I also find those problems have a tendency to evolve into big drama if not settled quick and fast.

People also massively underestimate the workload on the individual, they only focus on low admin work. I have run numerous wonder societies and been in numerous kp swap threads, personally it is less work administering a wonder society than it is participating in a swap thread. Maybe not if you only put in a couple kp a week but if you have more kp it is a lot of work.

@ajqtrz put up a post recently with a good overview. Some views will vary but it is a really good place to start to have an idea of what might work better for your fs and what system you might want more information about.

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/which-kp-sharing-method-is-right-for-your-fellowship-in-2-parts.30981/

The lowest admin/work aspects are any of the variations on self-levelling (shout-outs and net-0), they also have a low chance (0 in some cases) of issues. But their concepts are hard for some people to grasp verse I give 5 kp and get 5kp back. People typically like what they are used to and swap threads are the most common by far.

 

[crackie]

This is more other people’s peculiar game play and less the systems themselves, but jeebus…why are people favoriting one wonder and requesting KPs for another wonders, making me scroll through the list to look for it? By the time I find it, I forget what denomination the thread is for and have to go back to the stupid message to look it up. Nope. No more of that nonsense. Donate at any denomination to only favorited wonder of the targets. It’s the first one and right there.

 

[Lady Dastardly]

This is more other people’s peculiar game play and less the systems themselves, but jeebus…why are people favoriting one wonder and requesting KPs for another wonders, making me scroll through the list to look for it?

I can tell you why I do it. Before rune shards became KP, our KP threads didn't specify a wonder. It was just "10 to @crackie." Once rune shards came into play, we added a few threads to accommodate their 15 KP value and, to encourage their use, named them things like "60 KP (4 runes) Swap". Obviously you can pay with whatever form of KP you want, but this was to get players used to the idea. This also necessitated getting the members to name the wonder they wanted help with so you could see at a glance if it was a swap you could take with rune shards. Oddly enough, our original 10 & 20 KP swaps still do not list the wonder. To make it easier for our earlier chapter players to participate in the bigger swaps, I list an early chapter wonder for swap in the threads that specify a wonder, even though it may not be the one I'm actively working on. My higher chapter wonders get faved, and helped in the threads that don't name the wonder. It helps to keep the threads moving and our early chapter players benefit from being able to swap (they are more likely to snag a chest this way, I've found). I know it's annoying, but at least I do it with wonders that are closer to the front of the queue.

I also do most of my KP swapping in the app where you can simply tap the message you're replying to and there is a button to go directly to giving AW help. I love that and wish we could get it in the browser version.

 

[Talaedraiia]

@Lady Dastardly when you say that you do most of your swappying “in the app”is that you saying I play on mobile? If that is so, I sure would like to know how you do that because I play on an iPad and I don’t know how to do it.

 

[crackie]

@Lady Dastardly when you say that you do most of your swappying “in the app”is that you saying I play on mobile? If that is so, I sure would like to know how you do that because I play on an iPad and I don’t know how to do it

In the message view, tap the message bubble of the person writing and it will pop up Ancient Wonder Help.

I will also add, a lot of people optionally don't partake in swap threads but those same people will enroll in wonder society. So out of 25, we only have maybe 4 people outside the enrollment for various reasons, but the reasons are things like language barrier (I can't explain how the system works because English isn't their native tongue) or they have pygmy cities with no wonders because they're farming diamonds. ~20 people all working on the same wonder gets them built FAST!

 

[Talaedraiia]

There are no bubbles in my message thread

 

[crackie]

There are no bubbles in my message thread

The white and blue ovals are the chat "bubbles". Tap on the person's bubble and you'll get a pop up for "Ancient Wonder Help".

Tap bubble:

Pop up appears: