hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
ahh inno has found another way to get the 1% to fund the game for the rest of the 99% then, good for them would be my thoughts .. as far as how it all shakes out for any complaining i'll wait for live release 
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Your Elvenar Team
Leagues... Thanks
- Thread starter CrusaderMichael
- Start date
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
I absolutely agree with this. I don't like the idea that players can be hurt by somebody else choosing to spend money in the game.
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
Nope! It is already on the bonfire! It is going up against the brown bear and the polar bear. Feeding effect has not even been announced yet and the poor things are slated for death.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Check the rankings on your server, go to the tournament, and the last page.
E.g. My servers have 7300/6400 players with a tournament score above zero.
So how many players will be "active" in the event but scored zero in this week's tournament? a couple of thousand max? Remember we're in an event that constantly asks us to complete tournament encounters, so even those who don't often play it would have some level of participation.
I'd estimate that the top 1% on each server will contain just under 100 players perhaps as low as 80.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Oh sweet summer child, are you unfamiliar with the monetization practices of "free games"?
Step 1: introduce desirable feature (evolving buildings)
Step 2: move desirable feature behind a paywall (top 1%)
Step 3: profit
The slickness of this particular move is that it's technically not inno who makes you pay to be in the top 1%, it's other players.
Why fight your clients when you can make them fight each other?
@qaccy gets it. I'd be shocked if needed artifacts aren't shifted to leagues in the future.
The Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
If FoE is anythnig to go by, then, NO!, it absolutely will NOT change a thing in the easy/difficulty of obtaining 1x fully evolved building/complete set.
2020 Forge Bowl event:
10300 footballs given
11 Grand Prizes required to complete lv10 Olympic Treasury
2021 Forge Bowl event:
8880 footballs given
9 Grand Prizes required to complete Lv8 Terracotta Vineyard
The difference of 1420 footballs is roughly 2 complete grand prizes, which fits, since you needed only 9 grand prizes this year vs. the previous year's event.
2020 Spring event:
8020 lanterns given
9 Grand Prizes required
2021 Spring event:
7980 lanterns given
*8 Grand Prizes required to complete Lv9 Suishun Mill
*NB: you technically only require 6 grand prizes *IF* you gained the 'Event Surprise Box' from the St. Paddy's event, AND, opened it *after* building a Lv1 Suishun Mill - doing that yields a 'free' upgrade artifact for the Mill.
So despire a handful fewer lanterns given this year, it was actually even easier to obtain a fully evolved building, due to the newly introduced Event Surprise Box mechanic!
I can post the comparisons of the 2020 vs. 2021 Soccer Cup later, because that one is kinda gakky due to how the chopped everything up across the 2 evo buildings + race track pieces, vs. this year's which is just a basic evo building.
The only 'League' event of the past two years on FoE where Silver was basically 'required' to get absolutely everything, was last year's Fall event due to the combination of an evo building + larger set building it went with...
Overall though, across the past 2+ years where we've had Leagues in FoE, the amount of event currency given has still always been linked to the rough amount required to complete 1 fully leveled evo building.
What you gain from the League rewards (with the exception being the Fall 2020 event), is just icing on your event cake.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Hasn't FoE consistently been WAY more generous than Elvenar in events and in general?
DeletedUser27062
Guest
Didn't inno do exactly the same thing with the mermaid building? It was on sale a few months back for a huge chunk of cash - a price justified by inno due to its rarity and the fact that it wasn't easy to get. Now it's being given away.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
iirc in Canuck bucks it was $99 which actually made me laugh out loud when I saw it.
The Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Yes and no...
We don't get more rewards per say in FoE vs. here... in fact, we win way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more daily special in events here than vs. anything in FoE-land! (seriously, FoE is getting stingy as all rodent gak on the daily front)
What FoE does better though, is that it's accepted long ago that the concept of "game balance" is a joke and instead just give the players their sand box to play in, and let everyone decide which toys they want to murder each other with!
(ie: events that give an evo building with Attacking Army boosts are clear winners, while an event building that gives say, a Supply boost + some KP & goods is a fat joke!)
While there are still some dry spells in FoE of really good vs. really awful crap evo buildings, there's also the fact that every event will also offer the previous year's 'Grand Prize' building as a 'selection kit' that can be won as a daily special... these kits allow you to chose either the base Lv1 building, OR, a single artifact to evolve that specific building.
So players who missed out on a previous year's event can always get a shot when that event returns in the current and/or subsequent year/s.
The Elvenar team though still cling to this silly idea that all players should be equal, which is asinine, since just by natural progression players who've been around for 2-3+ years can never be caught by new players joining now.
Hence why I always advocate for just 'letting us play' and just open up the flood gates. Players will balance themselves based on what they want out of the game, and no PvP ability means that having 10 Fire Phoenix is a giant nothingburger since a Ch7 player for example will NEVER be able to beat a Ch17 player in the tournament anyways!
(...and don't say it'll remove "all the challenge" anyways, since there's almost 0 tactic anyways due to how god-awful ranDUMB the battle system is anyways!
)DeletedUser27062
Guest
In NZ$134 or something like that. If I'd bought one I'd be so pi$$ed right now
The Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Yes well, everyone knows that Oz/Kiwi $$$ is just monopoly money anyways.
DeletedUser27062
Guest
Hey, so long as it gets me out of jail free I'm all goodYes well, everyone knows that Oz/Kiwi $$$ is just monopoly money anyways.
qaccy
Well-Known Member
Here's the thing. My post contained two points. Only one of them was the moving of artifacts/building upgrades away from grand prizes and into the League mechanic. The other is the fact that doing so also means players don't have to win as many grand prizes, yes, but on Inno's end, that means giving players less currency in order to win those grand prizes. You know what currency is also used for? Participating in the event. Winning daily prizes. Players will have fewer chests to open and rewards to obtain by playing an event because they'll be getting less currency from them now.If FoE is anythnig to go by, then, NO!, it absolutely will NOT change a thing in the easy/difficulty of obtaining 1x fully evolved building/complete set.
2020 Forge Bowl event:
10300 footballs given
11 Grand Prizes required to complete lv10 Olympic Treasury
2021 Forge Bowl event:
8880 footballs given
9 Grand Prizes required to complete Lv8 Terracotta Vineyard
The difference of 1420 footballs is roughly 2 complete grand prizes, which fits, since you needed only 9 grand prizes this year vs. the previous year's event.
2020 Spring event:
8020 lanterns given
9 Grand Prizes required
2021 Spring event:
7980 lanterns given
*8 Grand Prizes required to complete Lv9 Suishun Mill
*NB: you technically only require 6 grand prizes *IF* you gained the 'Event Surprise Box' from the St. Paddy's event, AND, opened it *after* building a Lv1 Suishun Mill - doing that yields a 'free' upgrade artifact for the Mill.
So despire a handful fewer lanterns given this year, it was actually even easier to obtain a fully evolved building, due to the newly introduced Event Surprise Box mechanic!
I can post the comparisons of the 2020 vs. 2021 Soccer Cup later, because that one is kinda gakky due to how the chopped everything up across the 2 evo buildings + race track pieces, vs. this year's which is just a basic evo building.
The only 'League' event of the past two years on FoE where Silver was basically 'required' to get absolutely everything, was last year's Fall event due to the combination of an evo building + larger set building it went with...
Overall though, across the past 2+ years where we've had Leagues in FoE, the amount of event currency given has still always been linked to the rough amount required to complete 1 fully leveled evo building.
What you gain from the League rewards (with the exception being the Fall 2020 event), is just icing on your event cake.
You also brought up another mechanic that will probably be coming to Elvenar in the future: the 'surprise boxes'. Players also readily accepted these as 'yay, more free stuff!' when really, that marked another turning point for events. Now, FoE players no longer have to fully participate in every event in order to complete their grand prizes; they also have to rank well in the league, get fewer prizes from the event itself while doing so (because the league has allowed for rewarding less currency to obtain grand prizes), and also do so for the PREVIOUS event because the surprise boxes contain an upgrade for the grand prize of the next event. Players are now unable to max out their event buildings without spending unless they participate in the previous event as well. I seem to be one of the only people who notices this though as nobody's really making a fuss about it. When Elvenar inevitably gets this 'surprise box' mechanic as well, events will truly become perpetual - each event linked to the next via these boxes, and players who break this chain by not participating in one will be penalized for doing so.
The Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Meh... I've noticed over the past 12-18 months or so anyways, that the daily prize odds have gone completely down the toilet in FoE.
Now all I do is pick out the 1 or 2 dailies I'm most interested in, and just focus on those since the odds are now seemingly capped at only 10-15% at best.
At least here we're still winning sizable quantities of dailies.
During the Phoenix event, I managed 6 Golden Palaces + 6 or 7 Temple of Embers for example. On the other hand, in the FoE Spring event, I barely scraped together enough dailies for a couple more Lv2 Sentinel Towers.
Let's also not forget that FoE has seemingly been reducing the amounts of daily prizes, since our Grand Prize rotation is actually good, (vs. the dumpster fire we get here), which has also likely meant that fewer players take much notice. Heck, even my crappy diamond farm city now has a dozen Sentinel Towers + upgrades stockpiled, and that city doesn't really fight at all!
I feel it's also important to point out that despite all the changes which now mean we win less daily/grand prize stuff overall in FoE, it's also fair to mention that the mere existence of the Antique's Dealer is likely an equal culprit as well.
Elvenar's crafting is still extremely limited overall in what it offers, while the FoE version basically allows patient players to get anything that's ever come up as a daily prize and/or feature event building.
The only event since their intro where I've absolutely *needed* the Surprise box's 'free' upgrade, has been to complete my Lv10 Druid Temple from the St. Paddy's event - and there were no leagues in that one.
My chagrin over the Surprise boxes is entirely due to the complete lack of explanation about how they really work... the vast majority of players don't follow Beta or the forums, so they have no idea that if you open up the box *BEFORE* you place your Lv1 building, you simply get another copy of that base evo building vs. the upgrade to evolve it!
So it's really a double-whammy, since average players will absolutely now require that upgrade, but likely 95% or more of them are going to be clueless about how to actually get the upgrade kit from the box. (good job INNO, good job. >.> )
Now, hear me out... *IF* we get the Surprise Boxes here, AND, fix the above issue, then perhaps it could lead to the death of FA's? (a girl can dream, right?!)
If the FA's get their much needed Exterminatus order, then perhaps we could replace those with an actual working & balanced version of the GBG's? One where there's no such thing as Siege Camps and no infinite farming?
And instead of the useless crap the FA's offer for carpol-inducing clickfests, we can get more unit instants, dias, time instants, PP's & AW KP instants instead?!?
Deborah M
Oh Wise One
I am not even a little bit interested in this! It might be interesting to see if anybody who engages in credit card wars at the end of the FA will get sucked into this also. I'm thinking probably not. I can't be the only one feeling taken advantage of repeatedly. I completely lost interest in the FA because even if you do everything, in the end it is just who can buy badges faster in the last seconds (literally). An idea creating a repeat just has me shaking my head.
The other thing is that I'm thinking that I am done spending on events anyway. I had stopped spending for a while and started spending some on them fairly regularly again. Here is the most recent result. I spent $$ on the Phoenix event. I've always enjoyed the Phoenix events so I went for getting all the prizes. Then chapter 18 dropped. Shouldn't be a problem. Right? Nope, wrong. I needed and still need teleport spells for the new chapter. Since chapter 18 started I have only gotten teleport spells in my big city once other than the 1 when Spire is over. I'm fed up because that makes no sense! Others in my FS are getting multiple teleport spells every single week other than the 1 at the end. Maybe because they are smaller cities? In the meantime I am accumulating more artifacts that I have zero use for. The result for me was having to sell some of the Phoenix prizes so I could progress in my game. Now, if they think I'm going to get backed into that corner again they are mistaken. I do not need the event prizes. I only spend $$ if I want them for esthetics or a little extra something.
Bottom Line: This new PvP competition only seals the deal on me having little interest in events.
The other thing is that I'm thinking that I am done spending on events anyway. I had stopped spending for a while and started spending some on them fairly regularly again. Here is the most recent result. I spent $$ on the Phoenix event. I've always enjoyed the Phoenix events so I went for getting all the prizes. Then chapter 18 dropped. Shouldn't be a problem. Right? Nope, wrong. I needed and still need teleport spells for the new chapter. Since chapter 18 started I have only gotten teleport spells in my big city once other than the 1 when Spire is over. I'm fed up because that makes no sense! Others in my FS are getting multiple teleport spells every single week other than the 1 at the end. Maybe because they are smaller cities? In the meantime I am accumulating more artifacts that I have zero use for. The result for me was having to sell some of the Phoenix prizes so I could progress in my game. Now, if they think I'm going to get backed into that corner again they are mistaken. I do not need the event prizes. I only spend $$ if I want them for esthetics or a little extra something.
Bottom Line: This new PvP competition only seals the deal on me having little interest in events.
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SOARIN0623
New Member
Yeah, your punished for not spending money. So you'll never reach gold. Someone could buy all the currency they want and never complete a quest and hypothetically still be top 1%. How about make it mandatory to complete the quest line to even be a part of the league or don't lock players out as they would keep pushing for the gold
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Let's ask ourselves why the game changes. The answer is so simple. To make money. Every change in the game is to increase revenues. Some things work, some not so much. Some things have long term positive consequences, some negative. But one thing is certain....if revenues were distributed across all players evenly Inno wold make a lot more money AND not have to go in directions that chase the emotional spenders. Emotional spenders are chased with PVP situations, and thus, if the amount of revenues doesn't encourage refraining from PVP aspects they will creep in.
I've been gaming nearly 20 years and I've seen it happen in game after game. The F2P crowd grabs the game and over time, because less than 2 percent actually spend enough (in the 5-15 dollars per month range), the game has to seek out the credit card warriors and implement what excites them to spend. Some games get to the point where the balance between PVP and non-PVP tips into the PVP direction. Then and people actually start leaving. A "PVP areana" type thing is usually the first sign. Other games just close up shop and the players who have spent years building whatever they have built say adios to their creation.
So, the answer is not to blame Inno, but the inherent, -- dare I say it? -- "cheapness" of the average F2P gamer. Look how many times people say things like, "I never buy diamonds!" as if it's a badge of honor to have gotten as far as you have without spending any real money! A better thought is to ask yourself, "what's the value I derive from this game?" Is it better than a the two hours of entertainment you get from the theater? If so, shouldn't you put in at least that much a month? I spend about 2-3 hours on my cities a day. I think $10 per month on average makes it a bargain in entertainment. So why not give up a movie and put the money toward something that gives you a lot more (measured in time spent) value for the money?
Just my thoughts on the reality of being a gaming company and dealing with the F2P crowd.
AJ
DeletedUser27062
Guest
You forgot to factor in the value each player contributes to the game just by playing. This is a community based game - without a decent sized community trading this game grinds to a halt. Inno simply cannot run this game without us. That means our play time has value to inno. They need us to play to make money.
I think you can't assume comments made in this forum accurately reflect the attitudes of the elvenar gp. Many ppl who claim to not spend money most probably do and given that weird flex folks do about being a cashless city its no wonder spenders never speak up. I think you'll find it's inno who's being cheap (selling overpriced buildings they secretly intend to give away later, relying on volunteer support staff instead of paying people).
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
It's a good point to say that they need the players. The players do bring the community and that's important. But if the community doesn't spend, Inno doesn't need it or the game, right?
In any case, we can certainly disagree on some of the specifics, and, perhaps, my comments about the player base might be a bit stronger than intended, but it's pretty much true that, as you noted, theirs a "weird flex folks do about being a cashless city" for a reason -- it's seen as improper to spend money on your city because it is imagined that those doing so are some how not playing fair! It's seen as "buying" a win or high ranking rather than as supporting the game. How many times have we denigrated the idea of "Pay to Win?" Yet, isn't there some amount that would be acceptable to voluntarily pay to play? I'm not suggesting P2W should be the standard, but that we all need to adopt a more "Free to Contribute" attitude and if we do we may get better long term results.
AJ