Legacy artifacts & buildings =Awesome!!

[Gylldor]

Kudos to the developers for introducing the legacy artifacts and buildings into the current game!!!

Recently, I noticed that artifacts to evolve some of the great older event buildings (which predated my entry into the game) were showing up in Spire chests. Actually, I was quite surprised when I won an artifact to evolve a fire phoenix (I had crafted it in the MA last year and converted the all Coldfire artifacts I won). During the recent Phoenix event I won (and crafted) enough legacy phoenix artifacts to evolve my fire Phoenix all the way to stage 10 (seriously digging that). I also won a Stonehenge artifact in the Spire and subsequently crafted a Stonehenge building in the MA (yeah, digging that a lot too).
I’m now working on a new mermaid paradise (which is probably my favorite Elvenar building). The seriously cool older buildings have reignited my interest in the game. Many thanks!!!

 

[Darielle]

I love it too. I crafted a Mermaid's Paradise in the MA yesterday and today I won two artifacts in the spire for it. If this keeps up, I may be able to get it at least high, if not fully evolved. So glad they decided to do this.

I had a fire at stage 9 for ages, and then got a total of 10 phoenix artifacts during the 6 weeks they were in the spire. That upped my fire and gave me a fully evolved aureate too. Now, all I need is a bear to up my brown bear from stage 9 to 10. If I'm lucky, I may even be able to get a polar.

I hope they keep doing this forever, but even if they don't, I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

@Darielle 10 artifacts from the spire in 6 weeks? That is awesome. Did you clear all three levels of the spire during that 6 weeks?

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle 10 artifacts from the spire in 6 weeks? That is awesome. Did you clear all three levels of the spire during that 6 weeks?

Yes, my fellowship usually gets gold, and I just can't bear to lose those 275 diamonds, lol, so I make sure to do it. Thanks!

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

@Darielle Thanks for the response. I usually don't go to the third level because it feels too much like a crapshoot at that point. I may give it some try during this 6-week round.

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle Thanks for the response. I usually don't go to the third level because it feels too much like a crapshoot at that point. I may give it some try during this 6-week round.

I felt that way too, but I love it now. With negotiating, just remember if you are closer to the top, the guardians will more often ask for more expensive things. At the bottom of the spire, they ask for more cheaper things more often (of course they'll surprise you sometimes). And always withdraw if you don't eliminate at least two items at the upper level on the first try (at least one on the lower level). (You can eliminate items either with 2 "nobody needs it" or by getting all different items as "wrong person." For example, if you have 7 items to choose from, and on the first try, get a green checkmark plus four different "wrong items" ... you've just eliminated 3 items, because you know that if you have four spirits and four different items as wrong, then those are the only items you will work with. Either way, you're eliminating items.) I know I forgot to say that when giving spire advice before, but that's important to remember. If you don't eliminate 2 or more items (not spirits) on the first try, keep withdrawing until you do. You lose the least amount of goods that way, overall. I remember when my son was happy when he got green checkmarks on four of the five spirits on the first try, when he had 7 items to choose from. I advised him to withdraw. No way I would continue with only a one in 5 chance (on the third try) of succeeding on that last guy.

If you choose to fight the upper level, I wouldn't do it without having a few 5-day buildings out. Those things make a huge difference when fighting the spire, and they do double duty with tourney, too. And if you have a fire phoenix, feed that as well. If you don't have one, craft one in the MA. Even a 5 percent bonus, unevolved, is better than nothing, and you can always hope for more artifacts in the future sometime. That's the best building in the entire game.

If you already know all these things, forgive me for repeating. In any case, best of luck to you.

 

[michmarc]

@Darielle your general idea of knowing when to walk away from the Spire bribery game is a good point, but your specific example is wrong. One factor with "keep going" is that you've already paid for the first rounds while if you start over, you have to pay for the first round again.

To use your example, with 7 goods, you get four 'yes' and one 'nobody'. It is true that you only have a 1/3rd chance of success (you have 2 chances to guess the one good out of 6 remaining for the last ghost). However, the _cost_ of making the attempt is only two 'lots' worth of goods. If you start over, you have to pay the first round all over again. Even on the last round (with only a 20% chance of success), the fact that you only have to pay 1 "lot" of goods more than makes up for it.

Even if your chance of success on the last round is only 10% or 15%, the _cost_ of continuing on means that it's better to pay 1 or 2 "lots" for a 10% chance of success than to pay 10 "lots" for a 33% chance. If you get 4 'somebody' and 1 'nobody' on the first round, your chance of success drops to 20.5%, but it's still worth going on because the cost of only guessing 2 rounds makes up for the lowered chance. Your overall cost is less.

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle your general idea of knowing when to walk away from the Spire bribery game is a good point, but your specific example is wrong. One factor with "keep going" is that you've already paid for the first rounds while if you start over, you have to pay for the first round again.

To use your example, with 7 goods, you get four 'yes' and one 'nobody'. It is true that you only have a 1/3rd chance of success (you have 2 chances to guess the one good out of 6 remaining for the last ghost). However, the _cost_ of making the attempt is only two 'lots' worth of goods. If you start over, you have to pay the first round all over again. Even on the last round (with only a 20% chance of success), the fact that you only have to pay 1 "lot" of goods more than makes up for it.

Even if your chance of success on the last round is only 10% or 15%, the _cost_ of continuing on means that it's better to pay 1 or 2 "lots" for a 10% chance of success than to pay 10 "lots" for a 33% chance. If you get 4 'somebody' and 1 'nobody' on the first round, your chance of success drops to 20.5%, but it's still worth going on because the cost of only guessing 2 rounds makes up for the lowered chance. Your overall cost is less.

I have tried both ways many times, and for me, at least, I find I lose less goods overall if I withdraw after the first shot.

Let's take the example again. Since this is an upper level encounter (at 7 items, it would have to be), the spirits are more likely to ask for expensive goods, normally, than the lower level spirits do. Therefore, I would have to go with my most precious goods, just to attempt those last two almost hopeless tries. If I go with lesser items, I'll have virtually no chance and it's basically throwing stuff away.

But if I go ahead and withdraw, I save myself those most expensive items on a virtually hopeless case. If you only can win such a scenario one out of six times, and you have to go with the most expensive items to boot, you're losing more, overall, and particularly more important items.

If you withdraw and lose five items, two of which are no doubt coins and supplies (which are abundant), and maybe one lesser item and two better items, you can try again and be better off.

At least that's how I feel about it. But you know, whatever works for you is good. You say banana, and I say banahna ... lol.

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

@Darielle Thanks for the explanation. I believe your explanation will be particularly helpful for me for the third level. On the first two levels, in most cases we can choose the right goods by way of logic. However, on the third level, there were usually so many possibilities that it felt like a crapshoot to me. I think your point is that on the third level we should try to begin by reducing the number of possibilities on the first try, and withdraw if we fail to do so. I will keep that in mind and see how it goes this week.

Also, I wonder if you usually spend diamonds on the 3 middle bosses on the third level, or still rely solely on eliminating items on the first try.

@michmarc Thanks for the response. I think you are right about the specific example. I wonder if you can share your thoughts on when we should walk away after the first try.

 

[DeletedUser20010]

Or, drop a handful of fighting boosters and fight them. I have lately just been feeding the fire Phoenix and dropping one or two health boosters. If you don't have a level ten fire bird, then drop a magnificent mage, uuu and elr. I usually only end up negotiating two or three battles per week.

 

[DeletedUser20010]

Still waiting for my FS to get the gold spire bug though. It's one of those "everyone on board" things.
I have managed to get all of my fire Phoenixes and the Stonehenge upgraded.

 

[The Unbeliever]

...now if only we had some actual use for those of us who now have more artifacts than buildings to evolve, hmmmm...

 

[Gylldor]

I do wish that they would provide a mechanism within the game (like the trader) that would enable players to exchange items in addition to standard goods. For instance, I have accumulated a vast amount of spell fragments - many more than I can ever possibly use. Trading artifacts, spells, buildings, etc. would be interesting.

 

[Lelanya]

I do wish that they would provide a mechanism within the game (like the trader) that would enable players to exchange items in addition to standard goods. For instance, I have accumulated a vast amount of spell fragments - many more than I can ever possibly use. Trading artifacts, spells, buildings, etc. would be interesting.

Soggyshorts has a Suggestion in the voting stage, should take a look.

 

[Gylldor]

I liked the idea of a Spire shop-thanks.

 

[michmarc]

@michmarc Thanks for the response. I think you are right about the specific example. I wonder if you can share your thoughts on when we should walk away after the first try.

My instinct is terrible at things like this, so I wrote a program to evaluate every possibility and tell me what the right thing to do is. That's all encoded in a spreadsheet at https://tinyurl.com/y54zfzct It will suggest walking away when it is expected to be cheaper to start over.

Note that there is a subjective aspect to walking away: how much to you value one commodity over another. Depending on the chance of success, it may be worth it if you can guess 'Coins' (a relatively cheap commodity) but not worth it if you have to guess 'Orcs' or 'Mushrooms'.

For the purposes of the program that generated the spreadsheet data, I valued each commodity as being worth 10, 20, 22, 24, 30, 35, 40, and 50 'points'. (You enter in the commodities for each round in your subjective 'cheapest' to 'most expensive'.) If you tweak those numbers around, you can get slightly different results.

For example, with six goods and a first result of "some, some, some, some, none" (thus eliminating your 5th most expensive commodity) the math says to keep going. However, a result of "none, some, some, some, some" (thus eliminating your cheapest commodity) says to walk away -- not because it is harder to win (you still have a 72% failure chance) but because it is more expensive to keep playing which makes it more expensive than walking away.

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle Thanks for the explanation. I believe your explanation will be particularly helpful for me for the third level. On the first two levels, in most cases we can choose the right goods by way of logic. However, on the third level, there were usually so many possibilities that it felt like a crapshoot to me. I think your point is that on the third level we should try to begin by reducing the number of possibilities on the first try, and withdraw if we fail to do so. I will keep that in mind and see how it goes this week.

Also, I wonder if you usually spend diamonds on the 3 middle bosses on the third level, or still rely solely on eliminating items on the first try.

@michmarc Thanks for the response. I think you are right about the specific example. I wonder if you can share your thoughts on when we should walk away after the first try.

I only use diamonds in the spire if I know my team will get high enough to get more than that back at the end of the week. I also have 3 rules for spending diamonds. 1, only door guys, never anyone else. 2. only if 25 will give me a guaranteed win. 3. only if I'm tired of withdrawing or low on goods. All three have to be in place ... if one is missing, I walk. I have to admit, I will always use 25 diamonds on the big boss, at the very top, if it's a definite win by doing so. He just is so tough that 25 is a small price to pay to be sure to win. I did that this week and got 150 diamonds from him, so it was worth it.

best of luck to you

 

[Gylldor]

I’m increasingly interested in the idea of a Spire shop. The RNG thing for the Boss chests is often disappointing. I’ve been going all out hoping to win Mermaids Paradise artifacts while they’re in the queue, but keep getting Dwarven Armorers-which is kind of a drag since I’m not presently doing tournaments. I’d gladly trade 3 Armorers for 1 MP artifact.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Just port over FoE's Antique's Dealer system:
1. 'sell' unwanted items from your inventory to the dealer for 'trade coins.' Rarer items can generate an amount of 'gems' as well.
2. every 24hrs, you get a random assortment of 6 items to buy directly from the dealer. (mix of previous year's event buildings, troops, victory medal packages, selection kits, etc...) Rarer/more powerful items will cost trade coins + gems.
3. every 2 hours you can engage in a live auction with 49 other randomly selected players from your server, for a specific random item. After each auction finishes, there is a 30min cool down before the next one begins.

Yes, the big players with massive inventories tend to rule the live auctions, but there's also the main shop which gives a choice of 6 items per day.
With enough patience, you can use the Antiques Dealer to obtain virtually any building in the game that's ever been offered in the events.

Give us something similar here...
We can lose out the crap like coin/supply instants, relic packs, etc... since that's already in the Crafting.
BUT!
This would be a way to return all the other previous year's event buildings, (ie: the older set buildings like Winter Market, Harvest set, etc...), as well as access to older event buildings like Mana Huts, and of course, gain the artifacts you actually need, etc...
This could even be an exclusive way to buy an additional copy/s of the evo buildings, buy setting them up as a special buy, where you have to trade in artifacts for a base building. (ie: Fire Phoenix Lv1 = X trade coins + 9 Phoenix Artifacts)

While trading in artifacts for the base building seems counter-intuitive, it greatly slows down the ability to amass a field of the better evo buildings, since you would need to gain 9+ artifacts first to buy the building, and then gain 9 more to evolve it fully. And again, if you wanted a 3rd copy, you'd then need 9 more artifacts to buy a 3rd copy...
It would take literally years to amass 3-4+ copies of the same building, so the "Whaaaaaaa! What about muh GaMe BaLaNcE!!" arguments fall flat.

It would also mean we have something to use our inventories on since no one who plays even just Lv1 of the Spire every week has any need for Spell Fragments...
(my elf city has done Lv1 every week for over a year and I readily maintain stocks of 100k - 120k frags + 40-50 CC's while still crafting 2-3 items per day!)

This would also be a way for new players to pick up event buildings they really like that they missed out on, and which tend not to ever return in the following year/s events.

 

[Iyapo1]

It would take literally years to amass 3-4+ copies of the same building, so the "Whaaaaaaa! What about muh GaMe BaLaNcE!!" arguments fall flat

How many years have you been playing your chapter 9 city?

It would also mean we have something to use our inventories on since no one who plays even just Lv1 of the Spire every week has any need for Spell Fragments...
(my elf city has done Lv1 every week for over a year and I readily maintain stocks of 100k - 120k frags + 40-50 CC's while still crafting 2-3 items per day!)

I craft 2-3 items per cycle so at minimum 8 items per day, more during the FA and in my city without moonstone sets(spire topping) I run out of frags all the time.