Let new FS members play tourney/spire

[The Fairy]

Suggestion:

• Change spire such that the fellowship loses the spire points (crystals) from players that leave the fellowship before the spire ends
• Remove the cooldown for new members for tourney and spire, such that new members can participate in the fellowship aspect of tourney and spire also when they join after tourney/spire have started.

Motivation:

The cooldown was introduced together with the fellowship perks to ensure fellowships don't exploit it by moving players in/out to get extra experience. But if spire is changed as suggested then at most 25 members can contribute to the experience for spire/tourney for a given week:

• Tourney experience is based on the total number of chests that the fellowship has earned when the tourney ends. If a player leaves mid tourney then their tourney points are subtracted from the fellowship score and only the players (at most 25) who are in the fellowship when the tourney ends can contribute to earning experience.
• Spire experience is based on the total number of fellowship rewards that the fellowship has unlocked when the spire ends. With my suggestion a players points are subtracted if the player leaves before the spire ends, so only those players who are a member of the fellowship when the spire ends (that is at most 25 players) will be able to contribute to earning experience.

The cooldown for neighborly help should not be changed but stay at 24 hours to prevent cheating.

Pros:

• New members can participate in the fellowship aspect of tourney and spire even if they join after tourney/spire has started. This makes it much easier for players to change fellowship without missing out of the fs rewards for a week.
• Spire and tourney will work in an identical way with respect to what happens with a player's points when they leave before spire or tourney is over.
• The suggestion still prevent exploiting experience from tourney and spire.

Cons:
?

 

[The Fairy]

Does anyone have any comments to this suggestion before I ask for a poll?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I assume there is a technical reason to disallow it. as I do not understand why it was not introduced like this in the first place.

 

[Sir Bently]

When I first started playing you could jump right in as a new player, myself I do like how they changed it to what it is now (The Cool Down)
As I said before If It Ain't Broke Leave It Alone the old way was fine it needs to be changed back so that new player's can participate in Tournaments and Spire Fairy I agree with you

 

[Darielle]

I've been on the forum every day and I can't understand why I didn't see this before now. I am in two minds on this. In one way, points should go with a player since they earned them, but I honestly think it would be unfair if a fellowship made gold and then one player, out of idiocy or spite, left the fellowship and the former fellowship missed out on all those diamonds. Think of a situation where someone would have never blown all their goods/troops to make it to the top of the spire if they hadn't seen that they were going to get gold, and then suddenly after blowing everything (and maybe using a few diamonds on the way as well) they discover that no, they aren't going to get all the spire rewards after all, because Player X decided to leave just before the end of the spire. I'd feel very sorry for all those poor players in the former fellowship. Because of this and this alone, I would vote against this. In every other way, however, you have very good points. I don't think a new member should be locked out of the spire.

 

[The Fairy]

@Darielle I can see your point but personally I would rather risk this than not having new members being able to participate. And if you have the spire perk you may be able to save the gold even if a player leave.

 

[Hawk1911]

Respectfully, I am opposed to the idea.

Players should have the long view. Everything in this game takes time. A single weeks rewards aren't going to make or break a city. It's the rewards week after week that make a difference. I'm not nearly as concerned about a single weeks results, but the continued growth of the players in my fellowship month after month.

In some ways I like the cooldown period because it causes the player to think seriously about switching fellowships and when to make a move. They ask themselves, "is it worth it to me to make a switch now or should I wait until Saturday?"

 

[BrinDarby]

FAs are simple ..... get in a FS before it starts, or you're outta luck.
No abuse is possible because of this simple rule, any contributions
ya make to that FS belong to the FS..... ya can't use them anywhere else
so whats the point in taking them with you.....

Cooldown is the middleground here, .... personally its so much easier
to code and deal with, by just having the same rule for Tourn/Spire.....
get in before its starts or wait till the next week, and any pts stay in that FS.

Personally I do think in its current form, the cooldown should NOT be applied
to anyone, not in a FS, prior to the Spire/Tourn starting.

 

[Iyapo1]

Personally I do think in its current form, the cooldown should NOT be applied to anyone, not in a FS, prior to the Spire/Tourn starting.

That opens it back up to the abuse they were trying to avoid in the first place. It allows Fellowships to cycle alts through for FS points.

@The Fairy I like your suggestion eliminating the cooldown and just letting points leave with the player....the question, do points get added to the FS they join?

 

[Sprite1313]

Think of a situation where someone would have never blown all their goods/troops to make it to the top of the spire if they hadn't seen that they were going to get gold, and then suddenly after blowing everything (and maybe using a few diamonds on the way as well) they discover that no, they aren't going to get all the spire rewards after all, because Player X decided to leave just before the end of the spire. I'd feel very sorry for all those poor players in the former fellowship.

Or think of another possible situation - if the other members of the FS helped that player reach the top by accepting lopsided trades to give them what they needed to cater, and the player leaves and takes their points with them…

That opens it back up to the abuse they were trying to avoid in the first place. It allows Fellowships to cycle alts through for FS points

True, but in a non-PvP environment, this doesn’t really hurt anyone, so that aspect doesn’t bother me so much. I think the cooldown was inserted to “solve” a problem that wasn’t really a problem (my opinion; I’m assuming several folks had a different opinion, or the devs wouldn’t have inserted a cooldown).

I’m good with eliminating the cooldown, but would vote against this for the aspect of allowing players to take their points with them.

 

[AtaguS]

I would not like to see spire points reduced by a player leaving, and am comfortable with the cool down. what's a week in the grand scheme of things and why should other fellows be penalized (losing positions in the spire) because someone left? The penalty, so to speak, should stay with the individual moving....in the form of a cool down.

 

[Iyapo1]

Presenting scenarios where the player leaving is "the bad guy" cheating the FS out of rewards is just as accurate as presenting scenarios where management is "the bad guy" and boots for something ridiculous cheating the player out of rewards. Perspective matters.

Right now the prize loss is fairly one sided. The FS only suffer a potential cooldown on new players. If you eliminate that the the prize loss is entirely one sided the player who left in a snit or got booted because managment was having a snit is the only one to lose.


In the tournament points go with the player. It is not a one sided loss.

 

[AtaguS]

• Spire and tourney will work in an identical way with respect to what happens with a player's points when they leave before spire or tourney is over

I want to add also that I don't believe spire and tourney points should work identically with respect to a leaving player's points, because spire and tourney points are different with respect to how the fs benefits from player participation. In tourney, an individual need only contribute a minimum amount yet still reap the benefits of the work their fellows put in to earn more points. Whereas in the spire, there is a cap to how much effort a single player can earn, which places a far greater emphasis and interdependence on what each fellow does. It could be argued that it hurts a fs more for a fellow to take their spire points than their tourney points.

Presenting scenarios where the player leaving is "the bad guy" cheating the FS out of rewards is just as accurate as presenting scenarios where management is "the bad guy" and boots for something ridiculous cheating the player out of rewards. Perspective matters.

To be clear, I don't advocate for things to stay the way they are because a player is bad or wrong for leaving a fs. I'm all for player choice and movement is critical part of that. However it is more often the player's choice to do the leaving, so why should the rest of the fellowship take the hit? There are no good vs bad arguments, just a matter of who should bare the consequences of the choice to leave and/or join a fs.

 

[Iyapo1]

just a matter of who should bare the consequences of the choice to leave and/or join a fs.

I think everyone should. The player loses all FS prizes and the FS should lose any prizes that the player's score unlocked. I always thought that tournament and spire should be the same that way. The players points should leave with the player. Just my opinion.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

problem here is you are all right, the time out does stop fellowships with a vast army of alt cities from swapping them in and out, which keeps the math clean and the placements honest (if you care about that) as far as who snits whom for whatever reason good luck finding a code to fix that

 

[BrinDarby]

24 hr cooldown only limits the # of alts ( per open space in FS ) to 4-5/week.
Just make Tourn/Spire like FAs, get in before it starts ( no cooldown ), and instantly when
it starts you can play.... that 100% eliminates alts, and cap's players @ 25 exactly....

 

[The Fairy]

problem here is you are all right, the time out does stop fellowships with a vast army of alt cities from swapping them in and out, which keeps the math clean and the placements honest (if you care about that) as far as who snits whom for whatever reason good luck finding a code to fix that

My suggestion would also make it impossible to swap in and out a vast army of alt cities as you call it - or it would be possible to do swap them in do spire and swap out again, but the fs will lose the points once the player leaves, so there wouldn't be any point in doing so and at most 25 cities can contribute to the final score.

 

[BrinDarby]

the more I think about it, a 24 hr cooldown doesn't...... thats right, doesn't stop a
clever FS from still marching a bunch of alts thru, its just a bit more time consuming.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

no the time out stops it 100% as they can not contribute to either spire or tournaments same as with the fa

 

[BrinDarby]

doesn't the 24 hr cooldown only stop them for 24 hrs, not the full week ??
@hvariidh gwendrot