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    Your Elvenar Team

Level (impossible to get on the research tree) 15 Priests?

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DeletedUser3024

Guest
I have read this thread with a certain amount of interest. I agree with Maincbs13 in that the battles have become unwinnable. But, per some of you others, apparently it's because I've advanced way too far too fast in provinces. And that may or may not ever level out. Be that as it may, I have noticed a serious degradation in the ability of my troops. The new priest is useless. He is seriously MUCH weaker than when he was a level 1 priest. I appreciate Inno introducing mortarmen in response to the cannoneers, but the mortarmen are really pretty weak and ineffective. Paladins used to be a pretty sturdy mainstay, but they have somehow become more ineffective.
I don't have any answers and I don't know Inno's reasoning. But, it's now reached the point that I negotiate every encounter rather than fight. Fighting has become moot.
Although negotiation is a misnomer, you simply have to pay their price. So, it's really more of a ransom or extortion.
Well, because of these factors, the game is losing it's appeal, so I'm not sure how much longer I'll play.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
Ok. Let's review. The OP said that he was unhappy with crazy forces being in the game now when he battles. That is valuable feedback.
Then as Lionsmane put it himself:

Several people, rather diplomatically explained what had happened and was happened to you.

I will put that another way. A whole swarm of know it alls jumped in and tried to stifle his comments. You didn't walk in and give your own feedback about the system. You walked into a thread that had nothing to do with you, (because as you said you are perfectly happy with the battle system), and you pounced. It isn't up to you, unless you do work for Inno, to tell this player anything, except perhaps to point out that his valuable feedback is also needed in the battles update thread so it can all stay in one place for Inno to read.

So, people who are unhappy can speak, but players who like the new battle system shouldn't speak? Good luck with that.

There is a difference between sharing your feedback. If you want to start a thread about how much you love this new system and how much you like facing unwinnable battles, of course, by all means. I will jump in that thread if anyone pounces on you too. Or even you just add your post to the main thread about how much you love the system, again, I will defend your right to your opinion if anyone attacks you for it.

But if the line has been moved closer to the "middle" of the game, that's still balancing. They'll still be ahead of the pack, but not SO far ahead.

Huh? Nothing will have changed at all. You don't seem to have a grasp of the situation. I don't know what you are talking about.

You just havn't been reading the forums for very long. Bobbykitty and I have been going back and forth about playing the game "efficiently" since forever.

So, are you now saying that you work for Inno? If not, then this comment is 100% irrelevant. I won't even mention that you have the single most bizarre definition of efficient. By your definition, an empty city with zero houses is THE most efficient. But whatever, it is your city, do what you want with it. But don't claim your comments have any special meaning.

The developers obviously have spreadsheets that project well into the future

New people coming into the game are also complaining, so the future doesn't look good. Players of all different levels with all different amounts of playing time are complaining. New folks, old folks, big city, small city. Even the very best fighters in this game say that it the system is WAYYYYYY too hard for the average player. Fighting shouldn't be the most difficult combat module designed in a little city builder. That is silly. You don't dump something that is designed for one group on the heads of another. City building customers don't want that. If they did, they would go play a fighting game. Fighters don't want a city builder if the want to fight, they want a fighting game. Even the most expert fighters are telling Inno that. Inno just isn't listening.

Some people prefer allowing the developers to set their goals. :p

With all due respect, why would any of us care what the devs want? Either they give us a game that we like to play or we leave. THEY get paid. WE don't. Now, if you want to balance that equation, then I will happily do whatever it is that makes them happy. Until then, they can provide the service they are selling.

Regrading the definition of epistemology, that has already been explained to you. I don't need to do it again.
 
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Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
And therein lies the problem. You're devoting MORE time to a single instance of the game than the game can bear.
This one baffles me. I have enough time to enjoyable play one city. Yet you seem to be saying I am devoting too much time to the game. That, if I am following your logic correctly, I should play more than one city and not be able to enjoy my play so as not to devote too much time to any one instance of play. :confused:

I cannot find the quote, but someone earlier in the thread talked about boundaries set for scouting. Before the change, I can safely say that I met several boundaries that were set in the game for scouting. The combats definitely got tougher as you got farther out. ( This has not changed, but has intensified quite a bit). The negotiations got larger as you got farther out. (Again not change here). The time to scout definitely slowed you down. My longest scouting time was just over 4 days. And the final barrier was money. The last cost to scout for me was over 8,000,000 coin. I think I could have afforded one more ring out. But that was going be as far as I was going to go. I think these could easily have had slight tweaks to them to make it more difficult to pass and thus reinforcing the point of view that players should not go too far. (Again a concept that I have issues with).

Note: the reason for the long scout time and high cost was that I was trying to get to an active player that was 17 or 18 rings from me. Made a bee line and fought hard to get there.

I like the new combat matrix. I like that the troops have strengths and weaknesses against other troops. I like that they are trying to make all the troops useful. I have no problems with there being enemy troops that I will never be able to produce. (That's true for almost every strategy game that I have ever played.) I realize that the full combat system has not yet been completed. I think that the whole implementation has been handled poorly, hence the multiple threads of complaints. I think that currently the combat system is unfair and needs not only to be completed, but adjusted. I hope that will do upgrades soon for the troops at the Mercenary Camps well as at the Training Grounds. They are too weak relative to my current level (just shy of the Wood Elves) and the Cerberus take way too long to train.

I think I can safely say this has been a very rough time for everyone. Very emotional to the point of people all but fist fighting on the forums. I am still hopeful that things will work out and we can all get back to the game we all love.
 
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DeletedUser4417

Guest
Let's actually review:

Ok. Let's review. The OP said that he was unhappy with crazy forces being in the game now when he battles. That is valuable feedback.
Guess you totally, utterly missed when the OP states in his opening few sentences: "For the life of me I cannot understand why..." That is him asking why something is occurring and he was patiently explained exactly why such was happening by several people.

I will put that another way. A whole swarm of know it alls jumped in and tried to stifle his comments. You didn't walk in and give your own feedback about the system. You walked into a thread that had nothing to do with you, (because as you said you are perfectly happy with the battle system), and you pounced. It isn't up to you, unless you do work for Inno, to tell this player anything, except perhaps to point out that his valuable feedback is also needed in the battles update thread so it can all stay in one place for Inno to read.
Let me put this rather plainly BobbyKitty. The OP did not put his comments in a PM. He did not throw his comments into a mail to the Devs or a Moderator or to Support. He came on the public forum that is for ~everyone~ and made a comment asking 'why' and was, contrary to your ~opinion~ not jumped on and not stifled in any way. He asked why and it was explained in detail and he did not like or understand those answers no matter how it was phrased or who it was phrased by. I play the game the same as everyone else so as long as I play the game, regardless of how I might feel about the state of the game, I have EVERY right to walk into any thread and post, just the same as you do. You, BobbyKitty, are not a Dev/Moderator or Support so it is most certainly NOT up to you to arbitrarily wade into any conversation and tell a person, any person, they have no right to do anything. If THAT needs to be made any clearer to you then I will happily signal a Moderator to come in and read and happily ask for their input.

I get that you are frustrated. I get that you want change. We all want change but you ignoring facts, ignoring what a person posts and then trying to twist what is said so that it reads as some attack somehow needs to stop. It's disingenuous and frankly outright dishonest. There is a place and a way to voice that you are frustrated and angry and upset but you let that cloud and color your posts and you make yourself to be the antagonist.
 
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DeletedUser3610

Guest
Guess you totally, utterly missed when the OP states in his opening few sentences: "For the life of me I cannot understand why..." That is him asking why something is occurring and he was patiently explained exactly why such was happening by several people.
Guess you totally, utterly missed that the OP didn't ask you or anyone else anything. That wasn't a question. If it had been a question it would have a question mark at the end. It didn't. It was a commentary on how bad the new fighting system is, nothing more. It isn't the OP's or Bobbykitty's problem that you don't understand that.
 

DeletedUser4417

Guest
Guess you totally, utterly missed that the OP didn't ask you or anyone else anything. That wasn't a question. If it had been a question it would have a question mark at the end. It didn't. It was a commentary on how bad the new fighting system is, nothing more. It isn't the OP's or Bobbykitty's problem that you don't understand that.
Yes, he totally didn't use a question mark. You are totally correct. Now go read his posts BluePanda and something will jump out at any person that has taken even a basic English course. The lack of punctuation, the run on sentences etc. The OP put it out there as a question, that is plain and clear. It was both a question and a comment.
 

DeletedUser4417

Guest
Sure, keep telling yourself that. It doesn't make it true.
Back atcha. Keep telling yourself that, doesn't make it true. In the end this boils down to the fact that a player came onto a public forum that anyone can comment on, if registered, and made a comment that is open to comment. You might not like what is commented but as a player, that does not give you the right to tell another player they have no business commenting. Period.

Actually I read it as venting not as asking anyone anything. Just good old venting - as is his right.
It's venting and asking a question and no one is even implying it's not his right to do that.
 

DeletedUser4671

Guest
Get back on topic, stop trying to come up with meaningless ways to argue over nothing. Are any of your comments about how advanced the troops are in the provinces? Not lately.

You can continue your pointless arguments in PM.
 

DeletedUser4417

Guest
With what @Areane said in mind:

Inno announced there would be additional troop types added that could be encountered in both tournament and provinces here:

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/release-notes-version-1-16.4461/

Specifically this passage: You can now encounter a number of new units in Provinces and Tournaments: Abbot levels 1-3 (Mage), Thornrose Mage levels 1-3 (Mage), and the Orc General levels 1-3 (Heavy Melee)

These units join a list of units that are not on any players tech tree, regardless of race. I suspect that Inno uses some of these as teasers to show what may be in store for later release in additional chapters. This is supported by the fact that the Cannoneer, once solely encountered as an enemy, is now available to human players in their tech tree.

The numbers of troops in each squad are directly related to how far out a player has conquered in relation to the chapter they are currently in. Closing the gap between the two will reduce the difficulty ie numbers per squad of the enemy combatants.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
This one baffles me. I have enough time to enjoyable play one city. Yet you seem to be saying I am devoting too much time to the game. That, if I am following your logic correctly, I should play more than one city and not be able to enjoy my play so as not to devote too much time to any one instance of play. :confused:
Kat can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think he meant that you've focused too much on the world map expansions compared to the tech tree. The word "instance" is misleading, should have read "part", or "portion"

As has been said many times already by those that are very advanced on their world map, they had nothing else to do, which is valid.
Like a cheese sandwich: Those who advanced really far on the world map ate up all of the cheese before INNO made more bread, so now you are left with a pretty lame all bread sandwich until you eat up enough bread to be balanced again.
 

Maz Mellor

Well-Known Member
I think I can safely say this has been a very rough time for everyone. Very emotional to the point of people all but fist fighting on the forums. I am still hopeful that things will work out and we can all get back to the game we all love.

That would be wonderful. I really hope that happens. I only wish that "all" could include many of the players who have already left in the wake of these changes—those whose names are listed in Bobbykitty's lovely In Memoriam thread—or who were banned from the game for voicing what I considered to be fair and humane objections to the Orcs & Goblins storyline.

In other news, you managed to post something that Lionsmane and Bobbykitty could agree on liking. For that, I salute you, friend. ;)
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
Casuistry....my new word of the day. Very good word. Thanks!

The numbers of troops in each squad are directly related to how far out a player has conquered in relation to the chapter they are currently in. Closing the gap between the two will reduce the difficulty ie numbers per squad of the enemy combatants.

The troops I face on the world map are 7 to 1 my size. And I am not very far out. Not at all. I am 200 provinces behind what it would take to get all the space available for the current race. Each race gets a certain grid size....with a new race comes a larger grid you can place expansions on. You need that space in order to effectively build the new race...which needs more population for main hall upgrades and bigger workshops and factories etc etc. The race is designed to need a certain amount of space.

So I am terribly, terribly far behind right now. I am working in the wood elves chapter with barely enough room for the fairy race.

Keep in mind also that I have been playing daily for nearly 2 years.

Yet, the devs are calling this "too far ahead"? They are saying that it should take you 4 years to get through the tech tree we have currently? Because that is consistent with their crazy new "too far ahead" theory.

Instead of just accepting this new "too far ahead" concept, we all need to take a look at just how S L O W L Y they are expecting people to play.
If players aren't supposed to have conquered this many provinces as I have in the amount of time I have, then my goodness they are going to have a boring game to play!! That is what they are designing? ugh.

I keep getting told I should consider myself lucky that I had this much room because I stole it somehow and I didn't deserve it and the new people won't get that much room. Really? Then why play? I already sit here and get to click a whopping 5 minutes a day. They think it should be less than that?
 
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