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    Your Elvenar Team

Living on the edge

There has been a lot of wonderful feedback. Thank you Genefer:) and Count Rupert:) for adding your experience and comprehensive thoughts on this never-ending problem. It is an issue that involves ALL worlds and on ALL servers as the edge is constantly changing albeit slowly.

I am wondering whether the idea is now ready to be put to the poll? And if yes, what steps are taken.
 

Genefer

Well-Known Member
The more I have thought about the information shared and my own observations I think the root of this issue is Elvenar defining an active player as a player that has entered the game to play any number of their cities - 1 of 7 or 7 of 7 - and those abandoned cities or cities used for adventures and push weeks - remain on the map - as the dead cities that are never removed because the player is an active player with inactive cities..

This can be fixed without any changes to the current map location method - by providing a setting to indicate City Status & Actions with a default maximum time of inactivity before a city is removed to the outer rim.

Setting for city status & Actions

1. Abandoned - delete without the option of ever building another city under the same account on the world the city is deleted.
2. Vacation - hold city map position until.... Date and then a 30-day grace then moved to the outer rim.
3. Secondary city - for Adventures & Pushes - move to the outer rim.
4. All I need is my Fellowship - move to the outer rim.
5. I don't know when, but I'll return - move to the outer rim

If an option is not selected the city will be moved to the outer rim/dead zone if the city has not been active for 30 days.


I think this would clean out the cities abandoned by active players, hold position for players who expect temporary absence, and allow players with false cities & players that do not participate in neighborly activity to be considerate of the players that rely on neighbors and choose to move to the outer rim.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
@Genefer
How many daily visits do you need?
This suggestion is about giving godlike power to cities on the rim and you are now also wanting to allow players to choose to be moved to the rim.
 
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SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
It has been my understanding that cities with diamonds are never made into gold mines. I don't think that the system can differentiate purchased diamonds from those that are awarded.

I would just like to be able to collect the gold mines from the neighbor daisy wheel on the world map.

I'm not on the rim in any of my worlds but I do have gold mines. It will always be an issue in this sort of game. At least our maps are stable. In games like Forge of Empires, as an example, your 'neighborhood' changes on a regular basis, which is great for a game when your 'neighbors' can sack your city, but in game where you are building relationships for trading, it is not ideal.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
It has been my understanding that cities with diamonds are never made into gold mines. I don't think that the system can differentiate purchased diamonds from those that are awarded.

I would just like to be able to collect the gold mines from the neighbor daisy wheel on the world map.

I'm not on the rim in any of my worlds but I do have gold mines. It will always be an issue in this sort of game. At least our maps are stable. In games like Forge of Empires, as an example, your 'neighborhood' changes on a regular basis, which is great for a game when your 'neighbors' can sack your city, but in game where you are building relationships for trading, it is not ideal.
Yeah they do delete diamond cities. Two years for low level ones and 3 years for developed abandoned cities.
 

Genefer

Well-Known Member
How many daily visits do you need?

I cannot direct a neighbor to participate in neighborly help, but I have paid the cost to acquire the opportunity provided by active neighbors. I have never suggested an automatic reciprocation for the dead cities, because even though they are lost opportunities due to an inadequate method, the dead city might eventually become an opportunity - doubtful but .... Goldmines are without doubt a lost opportunity - there is no possibility of reciprocity ever.

Though the forum participants are a very small group relative to the number of Elvenar players, my observation from reading many threads concerning city location among forum participants, most view neighborly help as the coin & maybe supplies associated with the action of choosing a building. Though I am happy to receive those too, the value is a pittance compared to the number of coin & supplies that are generated with the culture bonus if the player works to take advantage of the available tools - provided by the game.


I know the length of this may be a deterrent for many people, but I hope you choose to read it :)

The value of the role of the Culture Bonus component of this game is clearly demonstrated by the cost of neighbor discovery & the tools provided to maximize the potential of neighbors & the Culture Bonus


1. Neighbors are opportunities - opportunities earned by completing provinces - First - the cost & duration of the scout and second - the Troops & Resources to complete the province.


2. There are 2 Enchantments that increase the potential of the Culture Bonus

2.1 - Ensorcelled Endowment enchantment - increases the Culture Bonus value by 5 when applied to polished buildings, only if the Culture Bonus is a minimum of 125%. This Enchantment has no value without the Culture Bonus​
2.2 - Power of Provision - This enchantment works without the Culture Bonus. However, the enchantment applies to the increased supply production value resulting from the culture bonus.​
Example using the maximum 170% Culture Bonus Value (excluding Ensorcelled Endowment)​
Base Simple Tool production: 13,000 Supplies​
170% Culture Bonus + Base = 35,100 supplies​
The power of Provision is applied to the Culture Bonus production value of 35,100 supplies. 35,100+ (35,100*2) = 105,3000​
Total Supply Production - 105,300 supplies​
The Power of Provision Always has Value - but it is clearly intended to increase the value of the Culture Bonus with Workshop supply production.​
3. There are several Ancient Wonders that are clearly designed to maximize the value of Neighborly Help & both enchantments.

The Sanctuary/Martial Monastery - increases the city's available culture - increases the Culture Bonus & decreases the number of Residences, Workshop, Culture Buildings needed to provide the equivalent effect.​
The Great Bell Spire/Crystal Lighthouse - increases the duration of neighborly help boost when the building is polished, which increases the duration of the Culture Bonus increased coin & supply production.​
The Watchtower Ruins - directly increases the city's available culture & indirectly by increases the value of the neighborly help polish boost - increasing the Culture Bonus value & decreases the number of Residences, Workshop, Culture Buildings needed to provide the equivalent effect.​
The Thrones of High Men - increases the city's available culture - increases the Culture Bonus & decreases the number of Residences, Workshop, Culture Buildings needed to provide the equivalent effect.​
The Thermal Spring of Youth - increases the city's available culture - increases the Culture Bonus & decreases the number of Residences, Workshop, Culture Buildings needed to provide the equivalent effect.​
The Prosperity Tower - increases the effect & duration of the Power of Provision - the longer duration & Higher value of the Culture Bonus -the greater the potential of the Power of Provision decreasing the number of Residences, Workshop, Culture Buildings needed to provide the equivalent effect. The longer enchantment duration also decreases city's demand for the Power of Provision, which is good because enchantments are not cheap.​
The Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood - increases the effect value & duration of the Ensorcelled Endowment and boosts the base mana production of polished & enchanted mana culture decreases the number of Residences, Workshop, Culture & Mana/Culture Buildings needed to provide the equivalent effect. The longer enchantment duration also decreases city's demand for the Ensorcelled Endowment enchantments, and again this is good because enchantments are not cheap.​


4. The combined effect of the Great Bell Spire/Crystal Light House & the Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood

4.1 - Aside from the obvious benefit of increased duration of the polish increasing the duration of the polish effect - it also increases the value of the Ensorcelled Endowment by having the enchantment in effect for more than the 8 - hour neighborly help bonus duration while decreasing the number of polishes needed in the base 48-hour duration of the Ensorcelled Endowment. Fully leveled the Bell Spire polish duration lasts 24hrs, decreasing the number of polishes required to keep the Endowment effect active for the entire duration - from 6 to 2. In other words, the Bell Spire has the potential to triple the value of the Ensorcelled Endowment - and the Power of Provision.​
4.2 - The increased Duration of the polish also increases the number of buildings polished in your city - fully leveled the Bell Spire has the potential to triple the number of polished buildings in the city. This allows for the use of 3 Enchantments increasing the 175% with 1 Enchantments to 195% with 3 enchantments.​
4.3 - Mana/Culture buildings carry relatively low culture values - the Bell Spire's effect of increasing the number of polished buildings - allowing greater opportunity to use the Ensorcelled Endowment - creates a cascading effect needed to take full advantage of the Mana Production Boost benefit of the Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood by increasing the potential for those lower culture value mana buildings to be enchanted, and the fully leveled Bell Spire's increased polish duration increases the probability of an active enchanted polish at the time of mana collection.​
Given the many tools available to provide, increase, & enhance the Culture Bonus - all working to increase city production and decrease the demand of city space - there can be no denying the purpose & Potential of Neighborly Help - or that it is a significant component of the game.


If none of the above is convincing of the cost to acquire neighbors:

5-8-23 scout.png


You scout to discover - and with discovery- you earn the opportunity to provide neighborly help and the opportunity to receive neighborly help from players that have also discovered you.


To demonstrate the expectation of participating in neighborly help:

5-8-2023 culture bonus.png


Straight From the wiki - to achieve the level 4 Culture Bonus of the Maximum 170% - clearly stated - requires a steady flow of neighborly help.


It is not a matter of "enough" visits - it is a matter of earned opportunities. Goldmines deny me the opportunities I earned through scouting denying me the opportunity to develop relationships of reciprocity with neighbors.


Do you think a player that does not take full advantage of the Tools would ever achieve God like benefits from an automatic culture polish? If a player does not utilize the many tools - they will at most benefit from a 170%, which is nice but can hardly be considered God Level - even if it was God Level - they earned the opportunity to attempt, and it is not their fault they are surrounded by Goldmines.


Do you think a player that has put full effort into acquiring, developing & utilizes the tools, which are clearly developed with the purpose of maximizing coin, supply & mana production to increase available city space - should be denied the opportunities the player earned with their effort, because of an inadequate map tool?


I suppose my city's performance could be considered God Level, but I built my city using all of the above tools (except the Thrones of High Men) to achieve God Level performance - and my efforts should not be negated, because the map tool is inadequate or some absurd notion of fairness.


I did not choose and never would choose to be surrounded by Goldmines, and if the Game cannot provide the opportunities, I earned than it should compensate me for the lost opportunities resulting from their inadequate tool. Players should not even have to suggest compensation equal to the potential loss - the game is well aware of its inadequacies and how they devalue the game for players assuming the burden of their failures.


A CITY GUARANTEES A POTENTIAL OPPORTUNITY - while a GOLD MINE GUARANTEES A LOST OPPORTUNITY!
 
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Alram

Flippers just flip
@Genefer
I thought you might have a target number, something like "I would be all set if I could just get "x" amount of daily visits."
 

Genefer

Well-Known Member
The biggest issue is not knowing if when I wake up, I'll still have my neighbors or more goldmines, because the city movement or removal occurs all week - not just on Mondays.


Currently, I am still at 63 Goldmines - well last night anyway - so I still have neighbor for now. Though if I am looking at year in this location as in the last - I'll eventually have very few.


My biggest issue - is the utter disregard & disrespect Inno has for its users. They do not even acknowledge it is a problem that needs attention. They do not even respect the game they created.
 

Count Rupert

Well-Known Member
As I understand it (and I may not), moving of cities by the automove program is only done on Mondays. The changes you see during the week are dead cities hitting the threshold for removal from the map which gives you new goldmines and new cities being created which remove goldmines. Both of those can appear to be the result of "moves". The neighborhood is never stable, it's always undergoing change.
 
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