Living on the edge

[bulldurham2]

The only difference between the goldmines now and a helping neighbor are: 1) don't gain supplies; 2) don't gain a polish. I think the easy answer is to have it to where clicking on a goldmine not only gives gold, but has a chance to gain supplies and a chance to gain a random polish. The % chance should be based on the natural % chance of receiving neighborly help. For me I think it's around 33%.

 

[Mykan]

The only difference between the goldmines now and a helping neighbor are: 1) don't gain supplies; 2) don't gain a polish. I think the easy answer is to have it to where clicking on a goldmine not only gives gold, but has a chance to gain supplies and a chance to gain a random polish. The % chance should be based on the natural % chance of receiving neighborly help. For me I think it's around 33%.

I agree but I would consider removing the random. Like with daily chests been random for some it is 5 visits and others it is 20 to get the three chests. Making it 1 in x visits would remove that randomness and mean a person with 3 gold mines would still get a visit over time otherwise the RNG might never let them have a visit.

I could live with either option. Definitely key to not be a visit per gold mine or everyone then wants the map edge.

 

[Honeybubbles]

I think you need to get it down to 1 idea to see how it will go if you want to see this progress.

Done

Actually we already get the same gold as a visit. So you're suggesting we stand pat. The scope of the problem is much bigger than goldmines. Goldmines are merely a visible manifestation of the bigger problem we can all point our fingers at left hidden. If you have goldmines it means you're at the edge of the map. It means in addition to goldmines you suffer with a significant number of inactive cities moved there to die. They thus free up locations for new cities to moved away from the edge where they started as they have priority. This means you constantly have a churning of cities in your neighborhood of cities being removed for inactivity and new cities being moved to locations so they can grow. So you have a significant portion of your neighborhood from which you'll receive absolutely no neighborly help. Those cities generate absolutely no trades. These cities are not as visible as the goldmines but put players on the edge are at a significant disadvantage compared to the rest of the players with more normal neighborhoods. I don't know about any of the other edge dwellers, but I'm not playing the game I thought I was playing. As I type this my city near the end of chapter 14 has 8 pages of trades (tier 1, 2, 3) while in another world my city just starting chapter 10 has 18 pages of the same trades. This is normal. The number of cities in my neighborhood is no longer increasing but as scouting times get longer I'm bound to start losing cities. To me, this game design problem. Given the nature of the map, you cannot help but have players stuck on the edge. They're apparently okay with having player disadvantaged by this given how long this has been allowed to exist. I for one am tired of being a second class citizen. Tired of the time and effort it takes to try and mitigate the effects of living on the edge. I play games to have fun and escape my real world. It's depressing dealing with this every day. I've come to hate Mondays when I get to see the new changes after move day. This week my goldmines increased by a third. Yeah, I'm not having fun. Time to move on.

Added a Dwarves Trader in the Goldmines

 

[Honeybubbles]

Thank you all, for your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. Greatly appreciated. Keep them coming

The OP has been edited and also now includes an option for a Dwarven Trading Outpost in the Goldmines

 

[Honeybubbles]

I have been wondering whether the amount of Goldmines allowed to reciprocate help should be expressed as a percentage of provinces scouted?
Would the amount of returned help on a city close to the centre of the world be around 20%?

 

[Count Rupert]

I have been wondering whether the amount of Goldmines allowed to reciprocate help should be expressed as a percentage of provinces scouted?
Would the amount of returned help on a city close to the centre of the world be around 20%?

It should be expressed as a percentage. The nature of the metrics you're seeking to mitigate due to location on the edge isn't a one size fits all. While attempting to correct for being on the edge and the disadvantages one suffers for being there, you'll divide those affected into those who benefit greatly from the changes and those who do not. For example that trade maximum for a day at 30k is nothing for the more advanced players. It should be based on a percentage chance of being able to trade, and if you do, you get to trade for what you want. The percentage for trades should probably be lower than those for neighborly help. Let the limiting factor be how many times you can trade, not how much.

 

[senate7]

I only have one city on the edge but if I got a polish for every goldmine that would be a way better return than I get from actual neighbors.


Are they truly neighbors? If you have goldmines - you are likely surrounded by inactive cities, which are not neighbors.


1 - Remove dead cities from the server

2 - Create a setting to indicate when unavailable & expected time of return to hold map position throughout the duration of inactivity

3 - Edge/desolation players should be compensated for the burden endured - and if I have over a hundred goldmines and near equal number of dead cities on my discovered map - a polish is not extravagant nor endless even with over 100 goldmines I have to have 100 buildings to polish - the size & composition of the city will create a natural cap on the number of polishes possible.

Or

4 - Redesign the map to eliminate goldmines entirely. How? I don't know, but I do not doubt the developers are competent. and all these things we think require complicated programming would be rather simple for them.

Just because the interface is a map, does not require the backend programming to be so utterly simplistic as to have a single map - the programming does not have to be of singular dimension. It seems to me, the best - backend - method would be to create a cylinder of the hex - this would eliminate city movement entirely, because the scouts would move up and down the cylinder relative to position within the layers. The top & bottom 9 layers would have some blanks, but rather than a player have 100 or more goldmines there would only be a few to contend with.

Then the map could populate on the user interface as the player's active map - customized to represent the neighbors acquired within the cylinder.

It is so frustrating when I can't find the words to explain an idea lol

I vote for option #1- eliminate dead and defunct cities altogether. Inno needs to get off their behinds and stop us from having to deal with this frustration. It's not just the fact that we don't receive visits or trades from these inactive cities, it's becoming near impossible to even find any live players to recruit!
I have been on a mission for the past month to recruit and going through the list of names of players and Fellowships is unbelievable. How much time have I spent comparing names and FS names to Elvenstats just to find out they are inactive. I've come across so many FS that have been abandoned and still full of 20 or even more ALL INACTIVE players names!
I agree with many of the comments such as - if Inno has time to come up with ...etc. They can find the time to start cleaning up this mess of a map. It's bad on Ceravyn and all other worlds! Tired of it!

 

[Huor]

if they would just add supplies to the gold mines (equal to a live polish) plus maybe a little culture bonus and add an npc trader (just like they have in other inno games) that picks up your trades when they time out (at the 2* fair exchange rate. tier for tier) life would be better. I think. lol

 

[Genefer]

I'm imagining the rage quitting fit that would likely happen if you were moved from total godlike control of 68 goldmines to a regular neighborhood.

Consider:

1) The cost of space dedicated to more culture buildings than I should have to house to ensure I am able acquire enough available culture to reach the max culture bonus of 170% (excluding enchantments)


2) The decrease in the value of my Enchantments as a result of the ever-decreasing number of neighbors - Enchantments are not cheap!!

To make them in the MA requires tournament participation to acquire the relics - costing both troops & resources.​

Earning the Enchantments in the Tournament - costs me both troops & resources​

The amount of time & effort I spend to acquire all the resources & troops to participate in the tournament.​

The hours involved in creating the enchantments in the MA​

The time boost spells spent to acquire the number of enchantments needed if I run short.​

​

The decreased potential of my power of provision enchantments - which also carry a very high acquisition cost.​

​

I cannot express the depth of my upset when I watch my Enchantments lose 20, 30, 40 hours... of potential, because I lost another 10 neighbors overnight - lost 10 neighbors that one or all might have chosen to polish my enchanted buildings.


3) The lack of trading partners - In my last location I spent months with 5 to 7 pages of offers - from 3 to 5 players - the offer quantity ranging from 500 to 5000. Thankfully, I woke up and recognized the value of the Blooming trader, but again the value relies on neighborly help.

4) Having to scout medium & hard provinces that cost more and take several hours longer to scout - to avoid scouting into desolation. Of course, I lost that all value to that effort when they relocated my city to the opposite edge of the map.


In my new location now have 63 Goldmines - worth 6,300,000 coins - that cannot even pay the cost of 1 tournament encounter requiring coins


Considering the numerous disadvantages for those of us who are relegated to assuming this outrageous expense for every other player - a polish for a goldmine is not Godlike - it is compensating for the losses we incur playing a 1/2 game, because the developers will not fix this - they just don't care!

 

[Genefer]

Honestly, I always thought people should be moved on the map based on how many visits they do.

Yes, I have read many forum participants comment that they do not even participate in neighborly help, because their Fellowship is able to meet their needs - desolation would have no impact on them - their game would not be negatively impacted - seems a reasonable and quick fix - add a variable for number of neighborly help transactions relocate accordingly.

 

[bulldurham2]

I vote for option #1- eliminate dead and defunct cities altogether. Inno needs to get off their behinds and stop us from having to deal with this frustration. It's not just the fact that we don't receive visits or trades from these inactive cities, it's becoming near impossible to even find any live players to recruit!
I have been on a mission for the past month to recruit and going through the list of names of players and Fellowships is unbelievable. How much time have I spent comparing names and FS names to Elvenstats just to find out they are inactive. I've come across so many FS that have been abandoned and still full of 20 or even more ALL INACTIVE players names!
I agree with many of the comments such as - if Inno has time to come up with ...etc. They can find the time to start cleaning up this mess of a map. It's bad on Ceravyn and all other worlds! Tired of it!

Maybe there could be a separate inactive tab? I am grateful that after a 4-year break that my city was still there. I was in Chapter 12 with all magic residences and workshops, so I'm sure that's the reason they kept me. Also, there could be a separate inactive region on the map. However, SOMEone has to be at the edge of the map.

 

[bulldurham2]

I agree but I would consider removing the random. Like with daily chests been random for some it is 5 visits and others it is 20 to get the three chests. Making it 1 in x visits would remove that randomness and mean a person with 3 gold mines would still get a visit over time otherwise the RNG might never let them have a visit.

I could live with either option. Definitely key to not be a visit per gold mine or everyone then wants the map edge.

I like your thoughts on this. The drawback for making it truly random is that you have to give neighborly help to ALL neighbors to maximize the benefit. So getting extra supplies and a polish would have the same chance as receiving chests but is capped out . . . at 1/3?

 

[Honeybubbles]

I don't particularly like the idea of random polishes. After months of checking every Monday to see if I won the moving lottery, months of visiting every neighbour only to realise they are either day old cities, casual once-a-week players, or goldmines, it would be nice to have some extra help of my choice. Most mornings, there are only 4 culture polishes for the first pickup/reset of the day. 24 hours nets me 30 odd visits a day. That's mainly my active fellowship. Living on the edge is tough!!

 

[Alram]

I think making goldmines "better" neighbors than regular players is going to set a lot of people up for disappointment when they finally do get moved to a real neighborhood.

I have neighbors that never visit, a few who visit every single day, and everything in between. Real people living their lives and playing a game. They visit when they want to and polish what they want to. I appreciate them stopping by when they can. My city doesn't fall apart when my neighbors go fishing.

 

[Honeybubbles]

[Apologies, am currently on mobile and haven't worked out how to use quotes there yet]

Alram, it's not about making goldmines better than neighbours, but getting help in a dead zone.

Mykan was concerned about these visits becoming overpowered so a couple of edits were placed to restrict the times one could use this help.
Count Rupert confirmed limitations on reciprocal goldmine help should be expressed as a percentage. My Woodelves city, (on another world that is not on the edge, has around the 20-25% return rate of neighbourly help. I compared this to to the Orc city on US server, 1%. Is my guesstimate reasonable, of cities near the inner sanctum? The devs would know.

In fact, my understanding is that the Devs are currently looking at solutions/ remedies for the outer world and do read our suggestions, hence this post and getting some ideas to them.

 

[Alram]

You can't control when and what you get from a regular neighbor. Why should you get control of when and what a goldmine does? What happens when you get moved?

 

[Genefer]

It is the composition of the neighborhood in the dead zone - I do not have over 60 goldmines in my new improved neighborhood and 200 active neighbors - I have goldmines, dead cities, and cities that are too small to produce the amount of goods to trade in the quantity I need for a Chap 16 city. It is not about a goldmine - it is the neighborhood composition that changes all the time - not only on Monday as support explains map movement - and the lost neighbors are the active neighbors - not the dead cities.


Also, my active neighbors reciprocate in a far higher percentage - 80 to 90% compared to Honey Bubbles's 20 to 25% experiences - so I can only assume she is counting all but Goldmines as neighbors, but if she looked them all up on Elvenstats she would probably discover most of those "neighbors" are dead cities or very casual players.

Maybe there could be a separate inactive tab? I am grateful that after a 4-year break that my city was still there. I was in Chapter 12 with all magic residences and workshops, so I'm sure that's the reason they kept me. Also, there could be a separate inactive region on the map. However, SOMEone has to be at the edge of the map.

I would not want my city deleted either, but I also would not want a city that has been inactive for 4 years to be my neighbor either. A city that has been inactive for 4 years should not be on the map - I resent paying the cost to acquire neighbors only to find my new neighbors haven't played in years or even months. I think moving them to a separate server would improve the game for every player and would improve player retention substantially.

I play the game klondike and I can have as many neighbors as agree to the invite - requires no effort but selecting the player from the menu provided by the game.

Elvenar requires I produce all the resources and/or troops to complete the province, the coin & time to scout the province. Elvenar does not default any neighbors when you start playing - every neighbor is a result of the players effort - they are purchased. That does not mean the player is required to participate in neighborly help - but we purchase the opportunity, but edgers do not receive the product.

 

[Honeybubbles]

Ouch! I'm in a dead zone and you want me to be at the mercy of the RNG gods too! Do you have a better suggestion?

When I am moved, I shall go a-visiting all my new neighbourhood. Some will return the visit, some will ignore me, and all manner of others inbetween! So be it.

And if some of my ideas for change are accepted, those I have left behind on the edge will benefit as they wait their turn, no longer shivering on the edge for months and month and months...

 

[Alram]

I want the goldmine neighbors to act in a manner that is similar to how regular neighbors act in order to avoid players experiencing culture shock when they get moved.

 

[Count Rupert]

They already have a system for removing inactive players from the map. I've spent a lot of time checking the status of players activity in ElvenStats and what the exact perimeters under which cities are removed from the map. There are certainly excepts from what I do know. That is after 60 days of not logging in (note this is different from what ElvenStats tracks; it tracks the last time there was a score change) the city is removed from the map. You can't tell if your city is on or off the map if you log into the game because the moment you log in, the game places your city back on the map. You can still access and look at the cities of anyone removed from the map like it's still there by looking for their name on the player list. You can only tell it's not on the map by visiting the city and exiting to the world map. If you're outside their city, they're still on the map. If they're not, they are no longer on the map. The only other way I'm aware of is if they are a member of your fellowship when they 60 days and are removed, their name remains as a member of the FS but the buttons that give you access to their wonders, give neighborly help are gone. Which is how I discovered what I do know. So it's hard to say if bulldurham2's city was on the map the entire time he was gone or not at this point. If he was it could one of the exceptions. Been suggested that those who purchased diamonds don't get removed for example. Unknown whether those removed from the map are ever deleted or not.