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    Your Elvenar Team

Other MA shuffle suggestion for crafting items

A fellow player and I were discussing the craftable items that are being offered in the Magical Academy. We were talking about either waiting over 2d for a province to be scouted or craft a bunch of useless items in the MA to gain 30 vision vapours to complete the event quest. My MA has been offering the lowest grade of items. Like 10m boosters (why would I want to craft or wait 3h for 6x10m boosters?) the crappy culture buildings, the weakest types of supply and coin instants and massive amounts of relics constantly being offered and are just pointless to craft and are a waste of combining catalysts, especially at our lvl. I have hundreds to thousands of relics. So my friend suggested that every day we should get one free shuffle and after every free shuffle, have a climbing cost of diamonds per shuffle.

Example:
After free shuffle it cost 10 diamonds
After 10 diamonds, 20 diamonds ect. ect. or however much...
Then after 24h, back to another free shuffle.
(Or if not a free shuffle a day and/or a climbing cost,
better the items to craft for the more advanced players.)
 
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Xelenia

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
You are given the opportunity to shuffle for 50 diamonds without a price increase. Right now your suggestion is requesting a free shuffle, and then an increment increase to allow you to get four shuffles out of the current 50 diamonds requirement. Essentially, you will be getting 5 shuffles out of 50 diamonds. Let us not forget they are offering you free diamonds with the spire and opportunity to gain 500 with the completion of the craft chest, those are free diamonds you can use to shuffle.

Currently, 5 shuffles will cost 250 diamonds for diamond payers. With the reset every day, 7 days a week, that is 1,750 diamonds costing roughly $17 per individual. That comes out to be $8,500 per every 500 players.

This is a suggestion that is taking revenue away from the game, revenues that are required to pay developers for them to continue developing the game so you can continue to play for free.

One of the many things to think about.
Happy discussion.
 
You are given the opportunity to shuffle for 50 diamonds without a price increase. Right now your suggestion is requesting a free shuffle, and then an increment increase to allow you to get four shuffles out of the current 50 diamonds requirement. Essentially, you will be getting 5 shuffles out of 50 diamonds. Let us not forget they are offering you free diamonds with the spire and opportunity to gain 500 with the completion of the craft chest, those are free diamonds you can use to shuffle.

Currently, 5 shuffles will cost 250 diamonds for diamond payers. With the reset every day, 7 days a week, that is 1,750 diamonds costing roughly $17 per individual. That comes out to be $8,500 per every 500 players.

This is a suggestion that is taking revenue away from the game, revenues that are required to pay developers for them to continue developing the game so you can continue to play for free.

One of the many things to think about.
Happy discussion.
I myself and my fellowship have never used the 50 diamond reshuffle, so how would it take away revenue? The few that has used it say they'll never use it again. It might be only worth it if you catch it right at 5h and 50 diamonds is a huge gamble for the chance of another line up of crap items. If it was cheaper, players would probably use this function more, which I would think, increase revenue. The rising cost wouldn't be 5 turns for 50 diamonds either. 10+20would be 30 for 2 turns. 10+20+30+40+50 would be 150 diamonds for 5 shuffle's
 
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I myself have never used the 50 diamond reshuffle, so how would it take away revenue? If it was cheaper more players would actually use this function. The rising cost wouldn't be 5 turns for 50 diamonds either. 10+20 It'd be 30 for 2 turns. 10+20+30+40+50 would be 150 diamonds for 5 shuffle's
That was just example anyway... Start the climbing cost higher.
 

Qybyrn

New Member
That is some optimistic math :) I'd be shocked if more than a couple % of people have ever bought more than 1 shuffle, must less spend $17/week on shuffles.

I want to buy diamond and support the product, just like I also want to buy ice cream at my local mom and pop ice cream shop, However, if they start charging $10 for an ice cream cone then I will not. I think his main point there are many people who would spend more money on diamonds if they didn't feel like they were being ripped off by the value received from them.
 
That is some optimistic math :) I'd be shocked if more than a couple % of people have ever bought more than 1 shuffle, must less spend $17/week on shuffles.

I want to buy diamond and support the product, just like I also want to buy ice cream at my local mom and pop ice cream shop, However, if they start charging $10 for an ice cream cone then I will not. I think his main point there are many people who would spend more money on diamonds if they didn't feel like they were being ripped off by the value received from them.
Exactly my point. Now i understand they need to make money and I have spent my fair share on this game back before diamonds were less available but 1.1 billion dollars in innogames lifetime I think they are doing fine, now throw us a bone lol. It should be where spending money seems like a treat to reward yourself with, not a sham to feel ripped off.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
I see how this would make things easier.
How would it make the game more interesting? What additional strategies/choices does it bring? How can it be done without a negative impact on the company's current revenue streams (regardless of what those actual numbers are)? How does it affect current balance in the game?
To fully flesh out an idea that has a snowball's chance in... of even being considered by Inno, answers to those questions need to be in place before we can even move towards consensus and a poll to assess broader community opinions.
 

Qybyrn

New Member
@samidodamage - I understand and agree with all that. Bottom line, Inno games should come up with recurring things to spend smaller amounts of diamonds on that is mutually beneficial to both themselves and the customers. I like the game is not pay to win, so I'm not suggesting break anything, but I feel like they are missing opportunities to make money and make players happier too.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
I see how this would make things easier.
How would it make the game more interesting?
I see how this would make mioving to the next line of craftable options easier too. I also see where it would retain a player's interest longer because crafting is fun. Seeing what you get to craft next, is fun. Player happiness and level of enjoyment while meeting the challenges provided is still a factor of "interesting" I would hope.

What additional strategies/choices does it bring?
Sounds like the choices this idea brings are more things to craft, which of course will lead the players paying to shuffle often to have to stategize more to get the relics/shards/CCs/etc to craft the new items before them. Access to crafting more things doesn't automatically equate to access to the stuff. Players still have to solve that problem, in fact, more often.

How can it be done without a negative impact on the company's current revenue streams (regardless of what those actual numbers are)?
I'm hearing players say here that they would use the shuffle option more if it cost less...so Inno makes up the difference in quanitty (haven't seen reliable math yet to suggest what this difference might be) in quantity.

I'm not necessary behind this idea 100% myself, a free shuffle feels like a big ask...Perhaps starting at a mid-level pay option and have each additional shuffle cost more, similar to how the wholesaler climbs, would be a more reasonable place to start. Again, I'm not sure i'd vote yes on this in a poll...But I wanted to draw together where I have seen these questions already being addressed to some degree, in the discussion so far.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
My impression is that crafting only exists because players complained we didn't have any use for certain relics and they were piling up. Now there's 20 different uses a day, with the option to by five more uses at a time for 10 diamonds each. 10 diamonds isn't very much for a new choice.

Now players who apparently don't remember when there was nothing to do with those relics want it to be free to get five extra choices every day, and even more choices for less than the 10 diamonds each they are now. Will players who join after that think that 25 free choices a day and another five for next to nothing isn't enough, and we should get 30 free choices a day, and 30 more for practically nothing?

And what happens to the people in the nearby thread complaining that they don't have enough relics to take advantage of the choices we have now and that we should be able to get more relics more easily? Are we going to make it easier to get more relics so that we can make more things with the more choices in crafting?

Would I like to see more of my preferred crafting options? Sure. Are we aiming for "I sit here and you shovel free stuff at me until I get bored and leave?" I hope not.

Elvenar is a game of patience. It's not required that we be crafting something every six hours.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I rarely use the diamond reshuffle but I will say there are 2 instances where I felt compelled to use it:

1. To align the reset times in my 3 cities so they turn over around the same time.
2. During Autumn Zodiac when unlimited quests meant I could gain a second set of bears by doing as much as possible.

Without unlimited quests AND a worthwhile prize to achieve because of it, I see no real need to reshuffle.

we didn't have any use for certain relics and they were piling up. Now there's 20 different uses a day
Wait, besides the relics I use for MM and CC spells (and the T3 relics for pet food) there still aren't many uses for them. I have thousands of each of them. Nearing 10k steel relics I'll never use. Lol. Not complaining, of course, but if there were more ways to use them I would love that.
 
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I see how this would make things easier.
How would it make the game more interesting? What additional strategies/choices does it bring? How can it be done without a negative impact on the company's current revenue streams (regardless of what those actual numbers are)? How does it affect current balance in the game?
To fully flesh out an idea that has a snowball's chance in... of even being considered by Inno, answers to those questions need to be in place before we can even move towards consensus and a poll to assess broader community opinions.
Its not supposed to really make the game easier or more interesting... The reason is to make the feature worth using, so players are more at ease using it, to make it more functional where it has more purpose for it's useage. Otherwise I spend 50 diamonds for another line of items I don't care to craft. Not to complain but holy codex, 15 min boosters. What on earth would I need to craft those for? A holy codex at 400k ranking points doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't craft it for a shot at 500 diamonds. I've crafted relics once. 5x relics? Makes 5 CC's that I have to wait over 1d for those 5 CC's to be done producing to craft... What? More low lvl culture buildings or time boosters that wouldn't hardly help a small city...? The only craftable item I have use of in the MA is supply instants and sometimes I'll craft a coin fall instant but other than that I don't see any good time boosters anymore or anything I would consider wasting 50 diamonds for a chance of the likelihood of getting nothing in return. HUGE gamble imo
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
When crafting was first introduced, the choices only changed every 8 hours and the cost to manually update the selection was 75 or 80 diamonds, I can't remember the exact amount. I spent that exactly once, so that I could have the reset at a better time for me. With the change to updating every 6 hours and the drop in price to 50 diamonds to refresh/reset the timer, I have spent diamonds on it maybe 3 or 4 times. But the problem I really see if the cost gets dropped much lower is that it will turn into a "slot machine", with some players resetting over and over and maybe triggering gambling addictions. This effect may also trigger certain laws against this kind of thing in some EU and Asian countries and I don't think Inno wants to break the laws with their game design.

I know the vast majority of users on this forum live in either the US or Canada, but this is an international game and everyone gets the same game. Different countries do not get different versions, and as long as there is a browser version, it has to follow the laws of all the countries where it is available. If it were a mobile-only game, then that would be a bit different and Inno could opt to not offer it in a specific country, if there were a law it could violate, like Belgium passed some anti-lootbox laws, which caused some mobile games to no longer be available for download there. Japan also has some stricter laws regarding mobile games, which pretty much every mobile game maker follows, since that is a huge money market for mobile game micro-transactions.
 
When crafting was first introduced, the choices only changed every 8 hours and the cost to manually update the selection was 75 or 80 diamonds, I can't remember the exact amount. I spent that exactly once, so that I could have the reset at a better time for me. With the change to updating every 6 hours and the drop in price to 50 diamonds to refresh/reset the timer, I have spent diamonds on it maybe 3 or 4 times. But the problem I really see if the cost gets dropped much lower is that it will turn into a "slot machine", with some players resetting over and over and maybe triggering gambling addictions. This effect may also trigger certain laws against this kind of thing in some EU and Asian countries and I don't think Inno wants to break the laws with their game design.

I know the vast majority of users on this forum live in either the US or Canada, but this is an international game and everyone gets the same game. Different countries do not get different versions, and as long as there is a browser version, it has to follow the laws of all the countries where it is available. If it were a mobile-only game, then that would be a bit different and Inno could opt to not offer it in a specific country, if there were a law it could violate, like Belgium passed some anti-lootbox laws, which caused some mobile games to no longer be available for download there. Japan also has some stricter laws regarding mobile games, which pretty much every mobile game maker follows, since that is a huge money market for mobile game micro-transactions.
Should make better items for more advanced players then. Not a 4x4 evolving building with no real discernable way to evolve it. This recent event has giving the ability attain a few artifacts for Phoenix's but still not worth it.

I failed to mention, I do like the beneficial buildings for troops but the rarity of those... However I do understand why they aren't offered much.

I failed to mention, I do like the beneficial buildings for troops but the rarity of those... However I do understand why they aren't offered much.
I'd also like to say I'm not trying to suggest anything for my benifit. I definitely do NOT want this game to be easier in any way. I love this game and I'm logged in 25/8 lol. I only put forth these ideas and suggestions for the ability to spark imagination in someone that can take a idea and run with it, to make this a better gaming experience for us all. I don't have time to make a idea infallible that's what the thread is for, for us to critique. Imo if we are able to take the time to criticize an idea then we should also take a moment to offer a solution, If the thread posted had any validity for our time invested. :)