Magic Academy and Spell feedback

[DeletedUser51]

Dear Humans and Elves,

We have recently be getting a lot of feedback from you on the Spells feature and the Magic Academy building in particular. As this is a very important topic of conversation in our communities worldwide, we want to take this moment and ask you for some specific feedback on this topic. Of course we have already had some suggestions as well, and we won't be ignoring these either.

Among the most-heard suggestions are the ones summarized below. Please allow us to list them and give you some feedback on those.

Community feedback: Researching and/or constructing the Magic Academy should be optional.
The Spells feature has been designed to be one of the core features that Elvenar has to offer, not just for now, but also for the future. You can compare this to e.g. the Battle feature and the Barracks accompanying this feature. We always intended on making the beneficial for everyone, so that they can be (and: are) used by everyone. With this in mind, it made sense for us to "require" a player to build the building, and we still intend on improving this feature so that you, our players, will value the feature the same way we do.

Community feedback: Make the Magic Academy smaller.
The building has quite a big size, yes. With the intention that it is a (very) powerful building, we had to adjust the building size accordingly. We have heard your request to make it smaller, but this is not the way in which we want to go. Instead, we want to make the building worth the space it takes up in your city.

Community feedback: The Spells are weak and/or not useful for me.
This is exactly what we want to ask feedback on here: we want the spells to be beneficial for you. We thought we were on the right track with it already, but given the feedback we received from the community it seems we may not have provided in all your wishes just yet.


And then the important part: how can YOU help us with improving the Spells feature and/or the Magic Academy?
You can help by providing your feedback in a reply in this topic. We are looking for very specific feedback:

1. What exactly is it that you do and do not like, and why?
2. Do you have suggestions for new Spells, and if so: what Spell(s) do YOU want?

In order to guide this discussion, we will be setting a few guidelines:

• Everyone's opinion is valuable and valid, and nobody has a "wrong" opinion, so treat each other's responses and feedback with that in mind;
• Please be constructive in your feedback, try to answer the "Why?" question when giving feedback: why do you or do you not like something?

We are very much looking forward to your feedback!

Kind regards,
Your Elvenar Team

 

[DeletedUser]

I've been playing over 6 months in Elvenar (on Winyandor). I also recently started a city on Khelonaar to learn the combat module (and to have something to do while slogging through Ch. VI.) I also tried out the Magic Academy in Khel to see if I wanted it in my Winyandor city. My Khel academy sits there, all the time, doing nothing. I don't need it. I'm not short of culture, or supplies, or goods. What I'm short on is population. The magic academy does not help with this issue - it makes it worse, due to the building's size.

First of all, regarding the size - space is already tight unless you're spending a lot of $$. Let us unlock an expansion to put this building on, and we will be a lot less upset about it. Now is a good time to do that, since you've opened up extra expansion rows for advanced players, thanks to the recent release of Ch. VII, so those who purchase expansions will hopefully not have already used them all. I understand you want it to be big - fine. But give me space to put it on, instead of forcing me to shoehorn it into my established city. That's rude.

I also agree with everyone who said - advanced players don't need more stuff. I don't need more coins, I have adequate supplies & goods. So none of the current spells are of use to me. Give me permanent or interesting options with the academy, and I will like it. I also completely agree with bobbipiazza's comments over on Beta, that the benefits from the relics invested in spells are not commensurate with the cost to obtain them. The spells should be MUCH more powerful or useful to be worth the time and effort. I may want more goods, etc for negotiating in tournaments, but it seems like a losing proposition to invest a huge amount of goods to obtain a relic that can be reinvested, with a significant time lag, for a gain of a small amount of goods. Better to just save my goods in the first place.

I love bobbi's suggestion for a Vacation spell to run my city on autopilot while I am on vacation for an extended period of time. I have a week-long trip planned this summer, away from Internet access, so I am bummed to have to just abandon my city for that time. Also like the idea of a rent-a-space spell, to allow you to do major rearranging. Those would be useful and I would be willing to spend a large number of relics & a good deal of time to make them. I wouldn't need them often, but when I did it would be great. Another idea - give us a permanent spell that lets us choose the appearance of our building from all previous levels, while still gaining benefit from the current level. Ex - I have 3 steel manufactories at level 18, because I think level 19 is UGLY. I would love to upgrade to 19 for production benefit & score, but don't like the appearance. If I could choose, I would like them to look like level 16, while producing at level 19. I'm not saying they would take up less space (say if I wanted them to look like 15 they would still require the 19 footprint). I would definitely be willing to invest time & hard-earned relics in adding to my choices. If Combat is going to be a much bigger part of the game (and I think we can say it is, with the recent tournament announcement), then some combat spells would be useful - train troops faster or make troops stronger or tougher. Or give them extra debuffs/curses. Or make the curses stack! !!! And of course we want reduced scouting times.

Advanced players would also be happy to see a spell that improves guest race productions. I have been very careful and deliberate about my pacing, and still have found myself research locked 3 times for days a time during Ch. VI. I simply do not have enough space for enough dwarf factories to produce adequate dwarf supplies during the time it takes to research. I end up dumping KP into Wonders, which I hope will eventually benefit my score. And there is NO other way to get dwarf goods - can't trade, can't purchase at wholesaler, nothing. Caveat - I've never bought an expansion. I've spent money on Elvenar, but mostly for builders and a Well of Floating Islands in each city, because I think they are lovely (and useful at the early stage).

Everyone has different reasons & goals for playing Elvenar. I prefer to do something every day that earns points. I feel like I am progressing while my score is going up. Ranking may fluctuate, but at least my overall score is improving. The magic academy as it stands now not only does not aid in this aim, but it actively hinders it, by keeping me from having space for buildings I can upgrade to earn points (like residences, that give me score and population that allows me to upgrade other buildings for bigger scores). I've been very frustrated in Ch. VI, because I spend a lot of time and effort upgrading buildings (Ancient Wonders, Dwarven buildings) that do nothing to improve my score.

And if you're listening, I know this is completely off-topic. But......... Mermaids. We need a chapter about merfolk. With canals for roads.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Give the building a permanent multiplier effect on population to alleviate space use concerns ie. additional x% increase in population (without corresponding culture needs)
Take away need to connect to road as with builder
Make spells usable on other players cities- eg fellowship members/neighbors

\

These are wonderful suggestions

Frankly every building except mountain halls is underpowered imo. I am also not a fan of their approach in general with these new changes that lay a heavy hand into a players chosen course. Way more carrot and less stick please. They do realize they built a game targeting socializer/achievers right? Here's a game that removes the conflict inherent in PvP type of games that's drawn a boat load of conflict averse players and recent changes have forced players into aspects of the game they would rather avoid

Bull's eye.

 

[DeletedUser1017]

hmmm.... gaining population from the magic academy...that would be nice...but how?

What if....

There was a spell....a very powerful (And permanent) spell...which would require TONS of relics...but would magically create a BUILDING with people. And...since it's magic....let's make them ghosts! A haunted house! Use the ancient power of the relics to build a haunted house and gain population! That would be worthwhile. (Only make it worthwhile in terms of size to population....better than a residence)

 

[DeletedUser61]

would magically create a BUILDING with people. And...since it's magic....let's make them ghosts! A haunted house!

Or a Wayfarers Tavern? https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Guest_Races#Dwarves

 

[DeletedUser1017]

Wayfarers Tavern is so non-profitable in my opinion. More population can be had in building residences and other culture buildings. Just my humble opinion though.

 

[DeletedUser627]

hmmm.... gaining population from the magic academy...that would be nice...but how?

What if....

There was a spell....a very powerful (And permanent) spell...which would require TONS of relics...but would magically create a BUILDING with people. And...since it's magic....let's make them ghosts! A haunted house! Use the ancient power of the relics to build a haunted house and gain population! That would be worthwhile. (Only make it worthwhile in terms of size to population....better than a residence)

Thinking of Aragorn and the Paths of the Dead...

 

[Kristincun]

hmmm.... gaining population from the magic academy...that would be nice...but how?

students and some staff could live there

 

[DeletedUser627]

Or...shouldn't a Magic Academy be the most significant culture building of a city? Perhaps not early in the game...but certainly, the first thing Fairies would do would be to add 25% to culture bonus via the Academy itself.

This would bump big cities up from the 100% culture bonus to the 125 bonus, acting as a reward for persevering all the way to Fairy. Then we could actually use the Academy's Ensorcelled Spells...

That would be something to look forward to.

This single change would end 90% of the disagreement over the Academy.

 

[Maz Mellor]

students and some staff could live there

We could organize them into houses! Four houses, say, each with its own tower and named for the person who founded it. Incoming students could be sorted into the houses by a magical hat and—crap. This is starting to sound awfully familiar.

EDIT: I do actually have something on-topic to contribute to this discussion. I would welcome a spell that enhanced my troops' effectiveness (or size or initiative or...?) in battle. This seems like a natural extension of the Academy's current function, and would play into the game's growing emphasis on fighting in the provinces. It would also make me feel better about the insanely large amount of real estate I have dedicated in each of my cities to a building that sits idle most of the time....

 

[DeletedUser61]

We could organize them into houses! Four houses, say, each with its own tower

You only thought you were kidding.
See https://arshae.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/on-the-fae-court-system-or-which-fae-is-which/
(Court as in Kings and Palaces)

 

[Maz Mellor]

You only thought you were kidding.
See https://arshae.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/on-the-fae-court-system-or-which-fae-is-which/
(Court as in Kings and Palaces)

My favorite part of this has got to be the comment at the bottom that begins, "As a wood elf myself..."

 

[DeletedUser]

Just dropped this comment in another thread, and thought it was appropriate here - wanted to make sure the right eyes see it:

I get that for new players the Magic Academy's not as disruptive as for established players. One of the big issues I have is that there are a lot of us who have been loyal, contributing players - I've been playing for over 6 months, bought diamonds 3 times. Not a lot, but enough to pay rent on my little spot of server space. And now they are requiring me to add an enormous building to the city I have already planned and grown without giving me the opportunity to add space to put it on. My next expansion is going for houses so I can finally upgrade my MH to level 17 and have enough coin capacity for scouting. I need those houses to progress in the game. The expansion after that is earmarked for guest race buildings - I need more of them to progress in the game. I just got out of research lock after about a week of dumping KP into wonders while waiting for granite & copper to accumulate. Plus, when I reach fairies soon, their buildings are much larger and will require that space.

I do not need the Magic Academy to progress in the game. It does NOTHING to help me with the biggest issues I am facing (population & guest race productions). So if I give an expansion to that, my progress is pushed back by the time it will take me to acquire 8 more provinces - probably a couple of weeks, while I research lock and twiddle my thumbs. Or I have to delete buildings I have already completed and use in my city to fit in that monstrosity. What will I get rid of - houses? I need that population. A Workshop? I need those supplies. Supply spells can help offset some of the loss, but the boost they provide does not compare to what one workshop can do working round the clock. Plus, my score & ranking would drop if I deleted the workshop. Why would I want to do that for something I find useless? Or delete a culture building and hope the culture spells can offset the loss - not likely! Especially when the cultural building that size is often providing double via NH. Or should I buy an expansion? Give us $5 or we'll take away one quest line or hold up your progress for 2 weeks! Why does that feel like extortion?

Elvenar Team, if you are not going to make the academy smaller or make it optional AT LEAST give us an expansion to put it on. A lot of the griping about this building will go away if you do. I don't care if it sits idle in my city after I plop it onto its own expansion (no impact), but I do care if it hinders my progress by preventing me from using my next earned expansion for something important (negative impact).

 

[DeletedUser594]

, here's my suggestion:

hmmm.... gaining population from the magic academy...that would be nice...but how?

Just looking around a bit at dwarven tech cities it seems like most fall in range of 45-75 houses.
-I have 60ish. Each house gives 470 pop. so 28,200 pop.total. for houses only (not the taverns or others)
..Make the academy add a 2.5% bonus and I get 705 extra pop-with no extra culture requirement
...players would get the extra pop. at the end of every chapter (each with a % set to it's level to make the numbers work))-
.
-but you only get the extra population if you clear the required number of territories. before unlocking the next age

In other words you dump the locks on the new tech but put a juicy treat there for those who have the magic academy and make province requirement and have it done in time-
..
and you get that reward every chapter which gives you a leg up for next chapter builds and hampers those who choose not to engage but doesn't stop them from doing what they want
.
..now the player still has choices- they can clear provinces or go through research tree without clearing or an academy but they lose out on a significant source of pop. and potential score
.
.No one is stuck, no one has to do something they abhor and if someone has a complaint- well who cares it was their choice

-- Achiever go for it bcs...points-points-points, socializers continue to meander mindlessly, explores offer up numbers that only other explorers care about and everyone gets to try their strategy and experience their outcomes
that's more in line with the type of bigger carrot, smaller stick approach I would like to see

 

[DeletedUser43]

Why are we so angry? Because it causes us damage. Why don't we like the magic academy? Because it takes up space. Do I want 1000 houses? No. I would be happy to have an academy instead....IF it gave me the same population and gave me the same score. If so, it would at least not be a hindrance to build it.

Is it useful?

Nope. It only acts on one building at a time? How is this useful? When I can build another building and replace it and get constant bonuses with no relic cost. It doesn't make sense to give you a one to one building benefit some of the time. If the intention is to make it powerful, then it needs to be powerful.

What spells would I find useful?

Faster scouting times. Faster scouting times. Faster scouting times.

I am up to nearly 3 days per scout. Frankly, after I hit 24 hours for scouting I was sure that they couldn't get any longer. Do the math. I get that non spenders shouldn't get the expansions as fast as the diamond buyers, but right now you are making non spenders wait YEARS to get those expansions. That is just silly. I can see being 3 months behind or something, but years? Come on. This isn't actual city building.

Temporary storage

Frankly, I think this should be a permanent feature of the game. More storage means more room to buy more buildings with diamonds. Don't you guys sell diamonds? So yeah, if the only way to get storage is through a spell, that would be ok.

Stronger troops

Especially in the middle of the game until you get the granite golems as an elf, fighting is too hard. People have long given up on that aspect of the game. So what if they actually beat a province or two. Would that be so bad?

Culture help for 100%ers

Many of us don't bother with culture bonuses as we learn how useless they are. Instead we take all that wasted culture space and use it for more workshops and population to get the same amount of coins (plus, the workshops and pop give you points). It doesn't make any sense not to give the culture bonus as a flat rate instead of a percentage of your current boost. It is things like this that make me wonder if the devs have any clue at all how we all PLAY this game. ALL top players stay at 100% or they couldn't be top players. A tiny little 5% won't mean a thing to us either. That would be laughable.

Spells to change building colors

Wouldn't that be fun? This is an aesthetic game. How about adding features for the aesthetics?

Neighborly help bonus spells

How about a spell that give YOU the extra supplies for visiting your neighbors instead of making your bonus dependent on others? Maybe this spell only works on day 3 of you visiting your neighbors 3 days in a row? Remember, the designers THOUGHT we were all going to get neighborly help from everyone every day. The game is designed that way. They designed the game to be successful with tons of players. How about a spell that makes the game work as designed?

Spells that prevent runes from breaking

If anyone does want an ancient wonder, getting those runes is stupid impossible.

Pick your quests spells

The worst part of this game is the stupid quest clicking. It is mind numbing. But without it, the game is unplayable. How about a spell that lets you get rid of quests you don't want from your quest rotation? OMG this would make the game fun! Or better yet, get rid of the stupid quests none of us want and let us pick them anyway? Then the tediousness of this game would go away. I'd kill for a decline permanently button!

Collect all your goods, coins and supplies while you are at work spell

The biggest problem a lot of folks have is they can't sit on here for 12 hours straight because they have jobs that give them money to buy diamonds. Shouldn't you have a spell for those folks? They seem like important people.

Vacation spell

Already mentioned by Bobbi Piazza. Should we really have to find a way to get wifi while we are on a cruise ship or risk losing our ranking? Why choose? Have both!

Trade with anyone you want spell

Yes, sure, we can leave our fellowship, go to the trading post, make giant trades so our fellowships are balanced and then wait 24 hours to go home again. Or we can play with a few friends and beg desperately to find a fellowship that will take all friends at once. Why not a spell to make all this easier? We may make more friends and get more entrenched in the game. That whole silliness about push accounts never has applied to Elvenar anyway. No need to try to protect so hard against it.

Everything Varron said

see above.


The biggest problem is the devs heard what we complained about in the early days of this game and then took a year and a half and gave us this building to deal with those problems. Only, now, we don't have those problems any more. We have new problems. The building is way too big for early players to be stuck with so they aren't helped by it, and it is way too weak to do anything for those of us with big cities.

 

[qaccy]

Why are we so angry? Because it causes us damage. Why don't we like the magic academy? Because it takes up space. Do I want 1000 houses? No. I would be happy to have an academy instead....IF it gave me the same population and gave me the same score. If so, it would at least not be a hindrance to build it.

Is it useful?

Nope. It only acts on one building at a time? How is this useful? When I can build another building and replace it and get constant bonuses with no relic cost. It doesn't make sense to give you a one to one building benefit some of the time. If the intention is to make it powerful, then it needs to be powerful.

What spells would I find useful?

Faster scouting times. Faster scouting times. Faster scouting times.

I am up to nearly 3 days per scout. Frankly, after I hit 24 hours for scouting I was sure that they couldn't get any longer. Do the math. I get that non spenders shouldn't get the expansions as fast as the diamond buyers, but right now you are making non spenders wait YEARS to get those expansions. That is just silly. I can see being 3 months behind or something, but years? Come on. This isn't actual city building.

Temporary storage

Frankly, I think this should be a permanent feature of the game. More storage means more room to buy more buildings with diamonds. Don't you guys sell diamonds? So yeah, if the only way to get storage is through a spell, that would be ok.

Stronger troops

Especially in the middle of the game until you get the granite golems as an elf, fighting is too hard. People have long given up on that aspect of the game. So what if they actually beat a province or two. Would that be so bad?

Culture help for 100%ers

Many of us don't bother with culture bonuses as we learn how useless they are. Instead we take all that wasted culture space and use it for more workshops and population to get the same amount of coins (plus, the workshops and pop give you points). It doesn't make any sense not to give the culture bonus as a flat rate instead of a percentage of your current boost. It is things like this that make me wonder if the devs have any clue at all how we all PLAY this game. ALL top players stay at 100% or they couldn't be top players. A tiny little 5% won't mean a thing to us either. That would be laughable.

Spells to change building colors

Wouldn't that be fun? This is an aesthetic game. How about adding features for the aesthetics?

Neighborly help bonus spells

How about a spell that give YOU the extra supplies for visiting your neighbors instead of making your bonus dependent on others? Maybe this spell only works on day 3 of you visiting your neighbors 3 days in a row? Remember, the designers THOUGHT we were all going to get neighborly help from everyone every day. The game is designed that way. They designed the game to be successful with tons of players. How about a spell that makes the game work as designed?

Spells that prevent runes from breaking

If anyone does want an ancient wonder, getting those runes is stupid impossible.

Pick your quests spells

The worst part of this game is the stupid quest clicking. It is mind numbing. But without it, the game is unplayable. How about a spell that lets you get rid of quests you don't want from your quest rotation? OMG this would make the game fun! Or better yet, get rid of the stupid quests none of us want and let us pick them anyway? Then the tediousness of this game would go away. I'd kill for a decline permanently button!

Collect all your goods, coins and supplies while you are at work spell

The biggest problem a lot of folks have is they can't sit on here for 12 hours straight because they have jobs that give them money to buy diamonds. Shouldn't you have a spell for those folks? They seem like important people.

Vacation spell

Already mentioned by Bobbi Piazza. Should we really have to find a way to get wifi while we are on a cruise ship or risk losing our ranking? Why choose? Have both!

Trade with anyone you want spell

Yes, sure, we can leave our fellowship, go to the trading post, make giant trades so our fellowships are balanced and then wait 24 hours to go home again. Or we can play with a few friends and beg desperately to find a fellowship that will take all friends at once. Why not a spell to make all this easier? We may make more friends and get more entrenched in the game. That whole silliness about push accounts never has applied to Elvenar anyway. No need to try to protect so hard against it.

Everything Varron said

see above.


The biggest problem is the devs heard what we complained about in the early days of this game and then took a year and a half and gave us this building to deal with those problems. Only, now, we don't have those problems any more. We have new problems. The building is way too big for early players to be stuck with so they aren't helped by it, and it is way too weak to do anything for those of us with big cities.

These ideas of yours sound more like borderline dev tools than feasible spell options. Autoplaying the game with a 'vacation' spell? I know you aren't the one who first suggested it, but that's typically called 'botting' in online games and is almost always not allowed. Also, what good is collecting stuff automatically while you're away? There is no plundering here so it can all just sit out until you collect with no real penalty, especially if you're not around to reset the productions. A lot of the rest of your suggestions have no real way to be implemented. As the current spells work, you have to select something in your city to apply the effect. How would a 'storage spell' work? What would you click on, how would it activate/deactivate, etc. Same with the 'trade with anyone', 'quest selection', 'faster scouting times', and the ones I already talked about above. How would such things be implemented into the UI in a way that requires a currency (e.g. spells)?

Anyway, as for my feedback, I think before adding new functionality, what's already available should be improved. Relics are a relatively and effectively limited resource, so the effects of spells should likewise be definitively powerful rather than borderline cases. But first, let's face it, fellow players: even if you think the current spells are bad, they at least still have more use to you than a steel relic when you have a boost in planks. The devs have the basic idea correct in providing a use for otherwise useless relics, it just needs to be improved upon so they don't feel so generally underwhelming.

Perhaps, instead of making spells provide temporary buffs to single buildings, each spell can be reworked to provide a PERMANENT effect that's applied to all (relevant) buildings, utilizing the fact that the Academy cannot be removed once built. For example, instead of a 10-hour, 100% increase to supply production on one workshop, that spell could become a permanent, 1% increase to supply production from all workshops. The goods spell would work in a similar fashion, and the culture spell would change from its current implementation to one that follows my proposed system. All spells in this instance would be applied directly to the Academy, which would display your boost %s for the three spells. This would turn the Academy into a more powerful 'mini Ancient Wonder' I think, where you're capable of some degree of customization in regards to the effect it provides, but still only provides a supplemental effect to what you probably already have built in your city.

I do have a few ideas for new spells as well, but as originally stated, I think what we already have should be improved upon before introducing further depth to the system. Thanks for reading

 

[Maz Mellor]

Same with the 'trade with anyone', 'quest selection', 'faster scouting times', and the ones I already talked about above. How would such things be implemented into the UI in a way that requires a currency (e.g. spells)?

I think the faster-scouting spell is a great idea and actually wouldn't be that difficult to implement from a UI standpoint. If the spells inventory could be accessed from the map, one could open it, choose the scout spell, and enchant the scout currently at work discovering a province. If the spell made the scout 50% more efficient, that would be a very worthwhile result.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is actually my first time responding on the Forums even though I've been stalking the Forums since I began playing in November (so Hello!!). So I will start that I am not an advanced player, so my opinions are coming from a player who's about 3/4 through Chapter 5 and has gotten both of the Elven Ancient wonders.

I don't have a problem with the size (though it def. creates a challenge) or the fact that the building is required. I actually like the idea of the Magic Academy. I think the ideas behind the current spells are also solid. I personally don't know what everyone is holding onto their non-boosted relics for. I know you need them (along with some boosted relics) to upgrade ancient wonders. However, I've already set enough relics aside to make sure I have enough and still have plenty left that I can use for spells. So I find it is a useful way to use a resource that otherwise is just sitting there.

However, as the spells are now they aren't "extremely" useful. The supplies spell is the only one that I have praise for. Granted, it was much stronger in its 2 hour phase than its current 8 hour, but it has helped get me out of a bind when I really needed supplies for upgrades and buildings. The culture one doesn't seem to be very strong. I feel that I can put 4 or 5 down and it doesn't seem like my culture tier changes. I actually don't think I completely understand what the 5% that is being added is being computed off of. So I'll admit I use it, but haven't really found it to be very useful for my gameplay. And the goods one I have not used at all. However, compared to some of my fellows in my fellowship it seems I keep a much better stock of goods than a normal player so perhaps it will be more useful down the road when I'm low on goods or it is more helpful for players that struggle with that issue.

So I have one and do use it, but I wouldn't say that it significantly enhances my gameplay. However, I also don't think the game should be handed to us on a silver platter, so generally I'm very easy going and this feature doesn't bother me too much (with where I am currently in the game).

I saw Bobby mention a spell for runes and I think a rune spell would be great. Either one that changed your percentage chance of not getting a broken one, or a way to select your desired rune choice so that your chance of receiving your desired rune would be higher upon completion of a province.

Otherwise, I'm a very content player and I've enjoyed the features in the game to this point. I obviously can't relate to end-game players and I understand there are issues they're facing that one day may upset me as well...but I'm content for now.

 

[DeletedUser627]

I will start that I am not an advanced player, so my opinions are coming from a player who's about 3/4 through Chapter 5 and has gotten both of the Elven Ancient wonders.

I don't have a problem with the size (though it def. creates a challenge) or the fact that the building is required.

Hi, Overflow! Glad to hear your experience and input.

Personally, one of the reasons I've been opposed to early Wonders and the Academy is because of players exactly where you are in Research. You're at the point where the availability of Goods is going to be the key factor in progress. That, and the expansions necessary for Dwarven manufactories. Inno, in my opinion, basically tricked you into diverting grid sectors, relics and KP into endeavors that don't help with your immediate objectives. In fact, not only does it "not help", it actually injures your game.

1. They took your boost relics, thus lowering your goods and slowing upgrade progress.
2. The time value of KP is that KP used to complete Dwarven research produces tons of extra goods - which you can then use to purchase cheap KP (so each KP used for research produces more KP you wouldn't otherwise gain). Basically, you can buy Wonder Levels after Dwarven with cheap KP.
3. 3 expansions devoted to Wonders / Academy that could be producing goods.

It's admirable that you're blessed with so much equanimity, but I still want to apologise that we didn't get the message out clearly enough about the effects of early Wonders. I'm guessing that most subsequent players will find themselves where you are...so your experiences getting through Dwarven level could be very helpful. I hope you'll keep an update here in the Forum about your approach and progress.

Qaccy said....let's face it, fellow players: even if you think the current spells are bad, they at least still have more use to you than a steel relic when you have a boost in planks. The devs have the basic idea correct in providing a use for otherwise useless relics...

Except that, from the beginning, we knew that unboosted relics weren't "useless". Devs made it clear the relics would eventually have a valuable use. We're not being unappreciative of the generous developers who are nice enough to give us something in exchange for nothing...we're asking developers to simply live up to what they promised in the first place.

Also, you mentioned the "Vacation" spell. I don't think it was fully described here. It would be 3 spells: 1 'bottomless" Coin, 1 "bottomless" Supply, and 1 continuous production goods. Each of these is a separate 24-hour spell (not UI impossible)...and would require significant commitment on the part of a player to save toward.

 

[DeletedUser]

Bobbi - I will admit I may not be the best guinea pig to see how it affects players now. I have purchased diamonds and did purchase all the diamond expansions available for my level so I am working with a little more room than your typical "free-to-play" gamer. So the space limitations of the academy and ancient wonders won't affect me as severely as they would a different player.

The academy won't affect my goods production as far as needing goods for the dwarves chapter that you were talking about (as far as relics are concerned), but for sure the boosted relics I use to upgrade the wonders will affect me. We will see how much. It will be slightly offset by the goods I'm getting from the lighthouse each time I aid a neighbor or fellow, but I don't know how much behind it will put me.

I've dedicated 10 of my KP each day to helping with fellowship ancient wonders so that will slow down my research and I may be able to recover the goods lost in the time that it will take for me to need the goods. I definitely don't have the desire to be a "top player" so I know this method also is not helpful for that crowd (though I have remained in the top 200 in Khelonar). It will be interesting to see how I balance everything going forward as I temporarily decrease my goods income while increasing the outgoing goods. I think that's where one of the goods spells would come into play, but I haven't experimented with that yet.