Magic Academy and Spell feedback

[DeletedUser1987]

I worked out some math, and the Magic Academy might possibly make one workshop count as three workshops. Possibly because if you somehow run out of relics or forget to queue a production or simply are unable to show up every sixteen hours *cough* tournament timing *cough*. Not all the time, of course. 5/8 of the time. 5/8 is approximately one half, so I'm going to treat it as one half for the remainder of the calculations.

One workshop counts as 3 workshops half the time, and one workshop the other half of the time. This means that, on average, one workshop counts as two workshops. Which means the Magic Academy counts as one workshop.

The Magic Academy takes up space equivalent to more than one workshop. Therefore, it is more useful to put a workshop in the space that would go to the Magic Academy, and use the remaining space in that 5x5 grid for something else (possibly another workshop) than it does to use that space for a Magic Academy, which would only count as one extra workshop.

The devs seem dead set on counting absolute number increases (see the lvl 20 residence fiasco which they still don't see as a fiasco even though 20 residences give less population per square) rather than per city grid increases. Using absolute number increases, yes, the Magic Academy is incredibly useful. But when you factor in the fact that the Magic Academy is huge, and workshops are smaller than that...
it's really not useful.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The building has some uses, but the space is MORE useful being used other ways. If you want the culture boost, then you have built an inefficient city because any city that has more than 100% culture is inefficient and the culture boost doesn't work if you have 100% culture. If you want a manufactory boost, then you are better off with more manufactories in that space. If you want supplies, you are really messing up because having level 1 workshops and setting them to 3 hours for the supply quest is wayyyyy more efficient. Just like government buying hammers for $400 each. Sure, hammers are useful, but that $400 could be spent so much more wisely.

Nothing bothers me more than sheer stupidity and it would be stupid for me to build that thing. Utterly asinine.

Edit: So now we get responses from mods pasted into our posts? Ok...then let me respond to THAT....

Contests are exceedingly few and far between and for the most part don't give great prizes unless you spend a lot of money. They are more of a sneaky way for Inno to try to get people to spend money gambling than anything else. I run my city each and every day. If I didn't get the extra supplies I get from using that space more efficiently, then I couldn't complete tech or be able to negotiate in the provinces. If I can't do that I can't get more expansions.

Losing out on the storyline quest is the smartest thing I have done yet. Over and over the non declinable quests lead players in a bad direction. I no longer have to bother following their foolish leads. I'm glad I gave up this quest line. The only thing that sometimes comes in handy is when we are at the end of the content and that questline turns into a second declinable quest, but with more clicking, the same thing can be accomplished.

I repeat, it would be sheer and unmitigated stupidity for me to build this feckless building with the non existent better spells that were promised long ago.

 

[DeletedUser2396]

Ok well i not an expert nor do i go into figuring all the tech stuff out - but have you considered the benefits you do get out of the MA - Power of Provision spells - Magical Manufactoring Spells - etc... etc... that you wouldn't normally have available to use without it - too me it is useful to someone else it is not useful - i would like for it to be smaller but i can live with the space it is set - only drawback for me is the running out of relics since the Dev's made it extremely hard for me to get past the 11th ring i will get to a point where i have used up all the inner ring relics and only have to fight past the impediment of not being able to negotiate past the 11th ring and fight monsters that are stronger than my army - since i am still in Chapter 5

 

[DeletedUser43]

Of course it has uses. But I have figured the tech stuff out and other things are MORE useful. That means that I am losing by building it. Why would I want a power of provision spell, when I can make more supplies by using that space in other ways? If I have two level workshops I can make 13,000 supplies with them every 3 hours. If I have a power of provision spell that costs me relics I can make 6000 supplies every 3 hours. 13,000 is more than 6000. Two level one workshops take up 8 spaces, the magic academy takes up 25 spaces.

Therefore, by building it I LOSE a lot. I LOSE 7000 supplies every 3 hours plus 17 spaces I could use for other things, plus I save relics I have to get by using resources in tournaments. That is a huge difference.

Think of it like this....if you buy a Toyota Camry for one million dollars, of course the car has uses, but what else could you have done with the million dollars instead?

Whenever you buy something you always have to ask, what else could I have had for the money? Don't just look at what is seen (the uses for the academy), look at what is unseen (what else could I have had?). That's an important lesson in life in general.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

I would prefer to focus on the pros and cons of building more max level workshops than the pros and cons of completing the quests, because I fear the devs' response to the quests you can do would be to remove the quests or make them less useful, which does nothing to fix the underlying problem of even if you're constantly researching Power of Provision, the Magic Academy with its boosts is equivalent to fewer workshops than it takes to fill its footprint.

 

[DeletedUser1053]

Let's be honest. At this time, the MA is a failure as a building. Maybe it will be useful at some point. That point has not yet come. Yet. Even if they nerf the quest in reference, there are still more plusses imho to not having the MA than having it. My biggest complaint is the footprint. The BH is 3x3. Why is the MA 5x5? I can get spells from finishing chapters, daily help chests, and now from the summer event. I have used only one spell beyond what I needed and that was because I was going out of town for 2 weeks.

 

[DeletedUser43]

If they remove the quests they end the game. They have tried it. The game simply stops.

Another reason the building is awful is because it gives ZERO points. If you care about rank, that is a huge hit!

 

[DeletedUser2411]

The MA has been out for months. Despite all the feedback, no changes. The devs just aren't going to change it. So I propose a new change. Since some people did NOT have to build the MA and are not forced to, they have an advantage over the rest of us that were forced.

Please remove one possible expansion from the players who were not FORCED to build one and haven't. That would make things even.

 

[DeletedUser43]

No one has any advantage over anyone else. We all were forced to go back and research that tech. It became mandatory for all of us. We all got the undeclinable quest to build it. No one has ever been forced to actually build it. You just get punished over and over if you don't build it.

Some of us have just chosen to lose an entire quest line and never finish that quest instead of building that thing.

 

[DeletedUser2411]

OK. I understand. I did not know you are on never finish quest line. That sux.

I withdraw my proposed change.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Yes. Yes it does. Thanks for understanding! We get punished each and every day we sign in because we have made the more efficient choice for our cities.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Spells are wonderful for folks who are in the early stages of the game, and perhaps have yet to join a Fellowship.

Spells allow folks to proactively tune their progress, rather than just turning the crank and waiting.

If you want to holler about something useless, holler about the Trader.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I disagree. Putting that thing up early in the game is awful! You have no room for something that huge and you can't get relics to run it without harming the rest of your game.

 

[DeletedUser61]

• Space is not even an issue unless you're building more manufacturing capacity than you need to keep up with the game
• The Magic Academy only uses UN-boosted Relics, which have no other use

 

[DeletedUser188]

I have been playing Elvenar since it was released so I would consider myself a advanced player
The MA didn't look attractive to me at first but since I am not concerned about rank points and always have space in my city
I built it anyway and haven't regretted it for one day I do only use the power of provision spell
But with that one spell I can earn more than enough supplies to supplement my shortage
Without having to do the mind-numbing looping quests
It hasn't harmed the rest of my game one bit plus I can do all the quests
My advice would be to build it you will be surprised just how useful it is
I for one am thankful I built it

 

[DeletedUser1053]

In each of my cities, space was in very high demand at the point when the MA was to be built.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

Katwijk, check out my cities on Winyandor and Elcysandir. They are cities which have Magic Academies. I don't think I'm going crazy over building manufactories. And yet, I am constantly cursing those Magic Academies because I wish that I had more room for building other things. Both cities, I would much rather have the room to upgrade my workshops than have the Magic Academies.

In fact, the Winyandor city kind of needs one more Magic Dust manufactory, but I can't build it because I need that space for other things. And the Elcysandir city needs another Scrolls manufactory but again... no room.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Space is not even an issue

You don't understand economics or this game. This is a city building game. It takes space to build. Space is the number one limitation of this game. Space IS the issue. Always.

unless you're building more manufacturing capacity than you need to keep up with the game

This is a nonsense statement. There is no such concept.

Andrew, I built one on beta. It has harmed my score and the amount of supplies I can get and I regret it every time I see it. I am always short on supplies because I can't do that quest enough. I do not trust your advice. It has been an awful decision for me.

But I'm certainly not suggesting the academy be eliminated from the game. You like it, Andrew. That's great. I am glad for you. In fact, I would fight to keep this building in the game because you like it. Why would you keep fighting to punish me (and everyone else who won't build it), because we don't want it?

There are two sides to this issue:

Either you fight to keep this academy mandatory and punish every player who doesn't think it goes with the way they want their city thus making those players unhappy.

or

You fight to make this building optional so each player can be happy and make their own choices.

 

[DeletedUser627]

I have the MA and produce spells 24/7 -only the Provision ones since I can't use /don't need others.

On a day-to-day basis, I run my full city (seriously maxxed with manf) fulltime with only 6 Workshops. To do this,I have to run the declinable Quests 3 times for every 3 or 9 hour production run. I agree with Andrew that it's incredibly tedious. For each run through the Quests, I gain 39k Supplies. I net about 10k every 3 hours.

If I could produce enough Spells to keep the Workshops spelled 24/7, I could make 36k extra each 3 hours...That would work, right? The problem is, as we all know, it's not possible to produce that many spells. I paid for a level 5 MA, and still I couldn't produce enough to keep up. I couldn't even consistently produce the 29K necessary to break even.

So, in terms of strategies, there's no comparing Quests to MA spells. Those of us with the Provision spells just have to decide how to use them to supplement our individual strategies. Me, I have 200 stored and use them for times when I'm building and upgrading so I can keep my city running. I also use them when I can't stand the thought of running another Quest round- hehehe!

I'm still ambivalent about the 25 grids. If they'd give the building some permanent value - like a permanent culture percentage boost - I'd change my mind. It would be nice to be able to use the Ensorcelled Spells.

 

[Mykan]

For me the MA issues are it does not provide a score so for those with that strategy it is useless. I think if it could be deleted people would be willing to at least try it and see if it works or does not work for them. Probably too complex to program but a 7 day trial where it can be deleted before becoming permanent or something could be handy to prevent some abuse if it is delete-able.

I also find the MA is actually too early in the tech tree and should not be built at the time it is received, it can be detrimental to an early player. It occupies too much space with no benefit and not enough relics early on to keep it fueled making it more inefficient. Its efficiency or not at later levels is a little more debatable with people on both sides of the equation

As to spells the KP spell is the most useless one I have seen. Power of provision and manufacturing have their uses at certain times and certain buildings.