Manufactoring Challenge

[Deleted User - 3932582]

The math wizards can probably sort this out in a quick hurry -- but wouldn't the supplies output from a reasonably leveled phoenix be a worthwhile option to replace a large workshop (along with the supporting pop / culture)? That would free up some room for even more shanty town bits for events!!

L10 Constructs-grade Storm Phoenix (so as max as it can be) produces 140K supplies every 48 hours, so 70K daily. If you quest cycle 2x L1 workshops (so 8 squares, no requirements, can be demolished and rebuilt instantly at any time), they can produce the same (12K x 6 times a day 3 hour collections). So purely for supplies I wouldn't do it. Other people have different views on quest cycling, so it might be worth for them.

Of course Phoenix does other things, it just doesn't excel at any (compare with the Fire Phoenix special ability - there is really no viable alternative for what it does).

 

[DeletedUser20951]

So, given all the chattering and cage-rattling I've done on the subject, and because this is the most blatant, to date, example of Inno outright supporting the massing of level ones as an acceptable strategy (which I now realize is very discriminatory towards newbies), I am attempting to snag the main prize without throwing up any extra buildings and relying strictly on what I already have. Although I was online when the challenge started and have done my best to log as often as possible, I am quite far behind in medals at this point in time, and will likely have to expend all of my spells to be able to claim the Artifact before the end. The amount of which I have stockpiled to cast, along with the number of factories I possess, wouldn't be an option for many, emphasizing the constraints that I feel are unfair to a large portion of the player base.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I now realize is very discriminatory towards newbies

Why do you think that people who joined a week ago should have equally easy time to get the top rewards as people who have played for years? This makes little sense. Fair is not the same as equal, I see nothing discriminatory here.

To that extent, newbies can't get equal rewards from tournaments, they don't have access to top-tier FS, can't compete in FAs etc. Well, duh.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Why do you think that people who joined a week ago should have equally easy time to get the top rewards as people who have played for years? This makes little sense. Fair is not the same as equal, I see nothing discriminatory here.

To that extent, newbies can't get equal rewards from tournaments, they don't have access to top-tier FS, can't compete in FAs etc. Well, duh.

I consider newbies to be those who have played for half a year or less, but no matter. I'm more interested in the fact that you seem to be insinuating that the challenges are actually challenging to anybody with a little extra space and resources to construct a slum of first level factories/workshops. This takes about as much effort as a sneeze, yet for the players without the ability to do so, they can't even compete, which I believe is the very definition of discrimination.

 

[shimmerfly]

BUT...you knew it was coming....
It isn't fair for those who have to work and raise families and don't have the time either. So how could it be made Fair?

 

[Deborah M]

Actually building shanty towns is not a loophole. A long time ago, I'm thinking the FA Q&A, Timon & Riki did a demonstration on how to complete tasks with multiple level 1 buildings. The challenge there is simply how much room can you squeeze a shanty town into. Anyway, with plenty of room, I built tons of level 1 after the challenge popped up and got it done easily

 

[DeletedUser19483]

I like to think, If it gets my golden bird to the next level........Any cost is worth it......

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I consider newbies to be those who have played for half a year or less, but no matter. I'm more interested in the fact that you seem to be insinuating that the challenges are actually challenging to anybody with a little extra space and resources to construct a slum of first level factories/workshops. This takes about as much effort as a sneeze, yet for the players without the ability to do so, they can't even compete, which I believe is the very definition of discrimination.

And who are those players without ability to free up some space for temp buildings if they really want to do so? If you played for half a year, surely you do have more than enough space in total. If you don't have the space right away, sell something and rebuild it later. This becomes a choice - how much do you want the prize vs how much it will slow down your total progress (if you even care about that). It's a valid choice that the game is all about. So yeah, it is challenging in this regard.

As I mentioned, there were several occasions where I didn't consider top challenge prize worth rearranging my city for, and didn't have enough space right away. So I didn't get the top prize. Not because I didn't have ability to do so - if I really wanted it, I would have cleared enough space without remorse.

The only people who are unable to complete this Challenge (without spending and prebuild) are people in the first few weeks of playing where you can't physically build 30 L1 manufactories or so. After that, everyone can do it if they really want it.

 

[DeletedUser17455]

I built 40 marble manufactories. I always keep roughly 800 pop of on-call workers who can show up to staff workshops and manufactories for events, challenges, and FAs. I also keep space free for these "pop-ups", which I call the "festival grounds".

(reading some of the posts above, I feel it necessary to say: I have been playing for 1 year and am well into Wood Elves)

Cannot not say:

It's nice how different people can enjoy the same game for completely different reasons. I suspect that people who "can't" free up space for 40 level 1 manufactories are just playing the game for different reasons. The thing I like most about Elvenar is when the game asks me to free up some space (ie events, FAs, challenges). I enjoy balancing the needs of a high average tournament score with being always ready to throw down dozens of workshops. If I could just cruise through the game using all available space/population for whatever, and then also win every challenge... that wouldn't appeal to me as much.

I sympathize with people who's complaint is "Lately Inno is not catering to my play-style" because that could happen to any of us at any time. I don't think it is necessary to put down players who's play-style is different than mine.

 

[shimmerfly]

@MinMax Gamer
I agree with you for the most part but... Always the but...
There are also players who never read the forum or Wiki either. I assume these are very new players who probably won't last? maybe maybe not. but our maps are full of them. Anyway...
I still have loads of prizes in storage from some events that I just plain hated the building. ( That headless horseman for one was Butt ugly) I sold it as soon as I could place it. ( There was no disenchant then).
If the game wasn't a challenge I among others wouldn't still be here. And yes, I am a very unconventional player but I love it. How you play or why doesn't concern me. How fast or "good" doesn't impress me either or how much you spend ( your business) on the game or not. Just have fun huh?
The Events were not created to be fair. Anything Inno does is focused on the $. I don't blame them. They're making tons of it. I'm not a high roller but I can understand why.
Space It's all about space. Some have it or make it, some don't want to, or can't if they're too new.
It's a puzzle.ha ha I lost where I was going with this so...the end.

 

[DeletedUser17455]

Honestly, I find all this talk of "ghettos" of level 1 workshops to be really weird.

The plot of Elvenar is literally: a guest race has shown up, quickly build them a little town so that they can get back on their feet. Why not treat the challenges, events, and FAs as an extension of this theme?

Challenge: there is a sudden spike in demand for marble! Can you meet the demand in time!? Yes. Yes I can. Go my legion of temps!

 

[DeletedUser17455]

ALWAYS, and I don't blame them, I blame the developers for not closing the loophole. Instead, they seem intent on doubling down on a design flaw. I suppose it is possible they knowingly meant for players to respond this way, but I strongly suspect that they didn't and are now seeking to mitigate the damage in a totally ineffectual manner so they don't have to devote programming resources to fixing it. Not gonna work; add twenty more of something to produce and players will just make room for twenty more tiny factories, and so on and so forth.

Lol apologies for several posts in a row!

I think this quote is a pretty good observation. Maybe my/our strategy of throwing down dozens of workshops at the start of an event and maintaining a float of space/pop is a... I mean you say loophole. I am more inclined to think that it is an inescapable local minimum. It is the "best" strategy in the sense that it gets you the most prizes from events and challenges. But it is also boring in that it is the "only" best strategy. Unlike with tournaments, for example, or progress through the chapters, where there seem to be multiple viable strategies. So maybe the presence of players who use this strategy is an indication that something needs to be done by the design team.

Then again, my personal narrative of discovering this strategy is satisfying. I have learned, gradually, how to play Elvenar effectively and I think it can be said that a game that takes a few months to figure out is a well designed game. Maybe?

Anyway: good observation @Nonchalant Antipathy.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I blame the developers for not closing the loophole. Instead, they seem intent on doubling down on a design flaw.

Actually you should be blaming the players not the developers for this one.
The developers tried once to make quests such as "produce 5 bread and XXX supplies" so that we would be forced or at least encouraged to use high level workshops- players pissed and moaned about the costs being too high and it was abandoned. Since then we have been given instants which make a return to that experiment impossible.
The player base is chock-full of special snowflakes and if you come up with a quest that in any way infringes on their unique style of play get ready to be torn to shreds on the forums.

 

[MischiefMakerMe]

Oooo running back to my city to build a shanty town so I can get this going.

EDIT... Darn... My builders are busy upgrading residences. Will build my shanty town once the home construction is complete.

 

[Crowella]

Hi! I'm a new player, been playing about 4 weeks. I'm about to start chapter 3. (On the EN server, although I have an account on US to keep track of things). I have managed to fit in 32 manufactories and will finish this challenge with a little loss of sleep. This is greatly aided by having gotten a level 9 fire phoenix in the Evolution event (which started around the same time I did).

I had to put in a lot of inefficient plank and marble factories (it helps to be an elf to have both configurations available) and sacrifice my boosted goods (steel). I also only have 2 level 3 of my tier 2 good production facilties (crystal) and none of the non-boosted. I was just about to research and pay for advanced scouts to get into chapter 3, and honestly I ran pretty short on supplies and had to use a couple 5% instants. (And Freddie my fire phoenix helped me out with supplies as well.) But it's only for 3 days.

I was able to get 30 manufactories into my city without the use of any diamonds for anything. Then I got a 10% off expansion offer and bought my first expansion for 405 diamonds. With that, I was able to add back a couple of steel manufactories, for 32 total. I did buy the $5 diamond package when they offered double diamonds -- I've had more than $5 worth of fun playing Elvenar in the past 4 weeks or so!

With some sacrifice of sleep for one night (I set alarms), I as a relatively new player will be able to complete the event. It's been challenging, but it's worth it to see Freddie maximize his potential!

 

[Crowella]

Here's what my baby city looks like if anyone's interested. There's a marble manufactory hiding behind Freddie if you're wondering if I've been counting wrong when I say 32 factories.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I as a relatively new player will be able to complete the event.

I think this closes the argument - here is a player who is going to finish the event after playing for only 4 weeks and still in Chapter 1, without paying. Anyone with more resources than that can certainly do that.

Thanks @Crowella.

 

[Crowella]

I'm almost in chapter 3. Sorry, that was a typo on my part, which I've corrected. And I did buy diamonds (although they would not have been necessary to complete this event).

 

[Crowella]

Actually, when I think about it, I guess my whole town is a ghetto by some people's standards. I'm not taking offense at that. Part of my strategy in the game is keeping things small and simple while I'm learning. If anyone is wondering "why so many level 1 and 2 residences?", it's because I'm planning to tear down almost everything when the challenge is over and go back to my regularly scheduled progress. (Although I have made planned progress during this event, I might have chosen a slightly different path if I didn't need 30 factories.)

By the way, with optimal use of factories and no sleep, the number of factories needed would be 23 (technically, 22.5). However, given life and late pickups, I think it could be done with 25. If it weren't for my dedication to Freddie's welfare, I would have stuck to something in the range of 25-27, which was my initial build. (I started with 16 manufactories and tore down a level 3 marble and level 3 plank as well as a couple level 1 steel to free up population.) But then I thought that was cutting things too tight, so I knocked down a couple more steel and put in planks and found space for a couple more marble.

For anyone who is interested, given workable space, elves are better off with marble than planks for this event since they have 2 less population -- you can get 11 marble in the same population as 10 planks, so over 30 buildings you need 4 less squares for a level 1 residence. That's if your population is as tight as mine tends to be -- I have 1 available population when the challenge started.

 

[Ashrem]

I did a little math on day one and posted it earlier. Assuming a typical player misses a few hours at either the start or end of the event, and didn't have a bunch of factories ready and waiting, I think they need to quickly get to 30, and more if they couldn't afford to check in several times a day. I think it's true that a person who can afford to do ideal production runs, and doesn't have a lot of interruptions like family/friend gatherings, work, or shopping trips, could probably do it with about 20-25