? Members Ripped Off by BAD Trades ?

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Only 5? Some servers have players with 10, 20, and more I've heard. I can only keep track of one. If someone wants to spend that much time in front of a keyboard to advance in a game where they're not making real $$$, so be it.

But they don't have to spend that time. Any game run from a browser can, and does, have little automated programs and bots written for it that can do the repetitive stuff like posting and taking trades. Or that run on timers to automatically collect and restart productions. Etc. Some games ban the use of bots and some don't.

 

[Pheryll]

Some games ban the use of bots and some don't.

The General Terms and Conditions state:

11.1 You are not entitled to use mechanisms, software, programs or other routines that could disrupt our systems. You may not adopt any measures that could lead to an unreasonable overload of the systems. The use of special software, in particular for the systematic or automatic control of the Games or special game features (Bots, Macros), for the reproduction or evaluation of the Games is not permitted.

and

11.3 The use of software which allows data mining or that in any other way collects information associated with the Games is prohibited.

Note that games can and do make exceptions to their rules, and there are at least a few cases where the Elvenar Ruleset expresses something different than the General Terms and Conditions.

 

[Handgrenade]

QUESTION

So has anyone, besides myself, ever made a bad trade and been unable to undo the trade?
Recently I lost 1000s of goods I'd accumulated because I clicked too fast. And once clicked, there is NO undo.

SITUATION

Ever so often it would be nice to be able to undo a bad trade or not make the bad trade in the first place.

EXAMPLE

So I'm rapidly clicking along on the trades I want, one after another and suddenly a different trade than the one I want to click on appears beneath my cursor and because I'm flying through the trades, I click a 1-star trade before I even see the that the trade below my mouse cursor has changed from a 2-star trade to a different very bad 1-star trade, for lots of goods. Not just a few hundred goods but now I'm out thousands of goods that I've built up over time. Unfortunately I've done this more than once.

Has this ever happened to you when playing in the browser version of Elvenar?

ISSUE

And there's no way to undo.

I very much like your fast UI (user interface) that is very responsive. But, it's sad that such a great cooperative game that rewards people for helping each other, has this issue that allows bad players to take advantage of a flawed user interface while accepting trades.

Now, you can continue to allow those that would bring your game down a notch by creating 1-star trades that end up at the top of the 1-star trades and just so happen to be the BAD trade that gets clicked when the interface scrolls it up so that it suddenly appears, without warning as the last item in the panel to be clicked next; thus rewarding the bad behavior of cleaver players. Actually, encouraging BAD behavior. I've actually thought about crafting BAD 1-star trades myself that would appear at the top of the 1-stars so that I could get extra goods myself. But instead I would prefer a change in the interface, that wouldn't allow BAD behavior to be rewarded so easily. Dare I say this aspect of the current UI actually encourages BAD behavior? Of course I dare or I wouldn't have posted here.

IMPACT

Current UI trading might even lower Elvenar's ratings or cause some members to stop playing more quickly thus lowering the Elvenar revenue model, or not, really hard to say.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

Here are some,
POSSIBLE Changes to Fix BAD Behavior Encouraged by UI That Game Currently Uses

1) Create an option that allows for an UNDO. Maybe make the UNDO an option that can be turned off and on.

2) Make it so all trades must be verified by clicking a button in a different location on the screen. This one I hate because it would really slow down a great and fast responsive interface the UI currently has when accepting trades.

3) Disable the mouse click when the mouse hasn't moved and when a different type of trades appears beneath the mouse; momentarily, giving the interface a chance to update and for your members to see that the type of trade has changed before re-enabling mouse clicks. Might be hard to decide exactly how much time to wait, people being different and having varying degrees of responsiveness themselves. Might fix the issue but make the UI less nice.

4) Could also have an option that prevents a member from seeing bad trades if they don't want to make them at the moment.

5) Or the option could allow members to see bad trades but not let them (accidentally) make a bad trade until the option is turned back to ALLOW.

MY TRADING PHILOSOPHY

My personal philosophy is that 1-star and 0-star trades should be an allowed feature, duh, because sometimes you want to do someone a favor to help them out. But no one should be rewarded in Elvenar for tricking someone into making a BAD trade, which, is what Elvenar does as it is currently implemented.

FEEDBACK to ELVENAR STAFF

So, what are you're thoughts?
Let's give the Elvenar team some feedback.

FEEDBACK #1:

Has this ever happened to you when playing in the browser version of Elvenar? YES or NO

FEEDBACK #2:

Which of the above changes (1, 2, 3, 4, or 5) would you prefer be implemented?

BRAINSTORM A BETTER SOLUTION

And if you don't like any of my solutions, maybe take some time to brainstorm the issue and see what you come up with. List out PROs and CONs to the brainstorming ideas.

What hat would you suggest?
What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Qilin rui of Ahooga

I have a perfect solution. Review all the trades listed. This will tell you whats being offered. If you give away alot of goods on accident oh well, you just helped a player grow faster and soon that " bad" trader has enough to do good trades. I think that the best solution would be to have tabs for the trades, 3star tab, 2,1,0. This is an option. The 3 and 2 star are bassically 1:1 the gap here is way to close. By asking for only 5 less you just got an extra star. This leads to bad trades also. A player may try to make a 3 star and add an extra digit on accident and boom 0 star trade posted. They need to revamp the rating system in general. 3 stars start at 5 less than offered and can go all the way to 1:8 and keep the 3 stars. Where a -1 will drop straight to 1 star and change to zero at some point.

 

[Handgrenade]

The General Terms and Conditions state:



and



Note that games can and do make exceptions to their rules, and there are at least a few cases where the Elvenar Ruleset expresses something different than the General Terms and Conditions.

How do they prove you have a bot? Easy solution, spend money and never get banned for anything. Especially when its hard to prove if not impossible.

 

[Ashrem]

How do they prove you have a bot? Easy solution, spend money and never get banned for anything. Especially when its hard to prove if not impossible.

TLDR: Violating the rules is fine as long as you don't get punished?

 

[Handgrenade]

TLDR: Violating the rules is fine as long as you don't get punished?

short answer yes.
I find that the players that go hard will do just about anything to get ahead. even buy thousands of dollars worth of diamonds. these games are not exactly fair across the board. they are essentially the loan sharks of the gaming industry. if it were a store front like a bar there would be a junkie leaning on a dumpster next to a hooker asking you for change. do not try to act like these are good people, if you were at a casino and their slot machine was jacked up and you told them and they didnt really care. if you won the jackpot by exploiting the broken machine, would you leave before they fixed the machine or continue to get the jackpot until they fixed it? Mobile games that let you win if you pay are immoral so no if they do not catch you cheating I could care less lol. . They advertise this game on porn sights which really pisses me off, no wonder why they dont listen or dont care. they get alot of 5 dollar short attention span players. they dont need everyone to keep playing. i have asked them to fix this game since i started playing. super easy fix. Just Code it so my S-Pen works... their response was , we did not design the game to work with the S-Pen.

 

[Ashrem]

Just Code it so my S-Pen works... their response was , we did not design the game to work with the S-Pen.

Really? They didn't leap to add code for the .001% of the population who have S-Pens? Appalling. That certainly makes it okay to cheat.

 

[T6583]

This.

I just hated those times as a smaller city where I took a trade and I suddenly had enough of a good to make other trades valid and then those leap up into the list and shift away the one I want from under my mouse, or finger on the app. And because there can often be a tiny bit of lag, you are already clicking on something that suddenly is not what you wanted.

The amount of times this has happened to me even as a large city with the sentient goods. My biggest issue is on the mobile when trying to take trades of just my FS members and it starts shifting and another player replaces my FS member with the same trade and constantly shifts between those 2 players. I would love more than anything for there to be an FS only toggle on the mobile as that alone would prevent me from taking most of the trades I didn't intend to. I proposed the idea but it seemed to have died due to poor support.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This.

The amount of times this has happened to me even as a large city with the sentient goods. My biggest issue is on the mobile when trying to take trades of just my FS members and it starts shifting and another player replaces my FS member with the same trade and constantly shifts between those 2 players. I would love more than anything for there to be an FS only toggle on the mobile as that alone would prevent me from taking most of the trades I didn't intend to. I proposed the idea but it seemed to have died due to poor support.

Yeah, the mobile app team does not seem to care at all about the Trader, while the browser team does eventually give us better options. And yes, I have seen it stated around here before that the app and browser versions have different teams of devs working on them, which is part of why it has taken so long after it was released before the app caught up to the browser in most areas.

And I do not know if you have ever noticed this stupid difference between the two versions, but the way the two fill in as you takes trades is the total opposite of each other. On the browser, as you take a trade, the trades from below move up, but on the app, when you take a trade, the trades move down from above. That caught me a couple of times when I was forced to use the Trader on the app when I could not get to my PC.

 

[T6583]

@Enevhar Aldarion yes I have and it screws me up sometimes. Depending on where I am, I'm constantly switching back and forth between PC and mobile. It was great when the mobile came out as it allowed me to still play the game when I didn't have access to a computer. But it's frustrating that there are still certain features that are missing from the mobile that I think are key to have. Such as better access to your FS trades. That's one of the reasons to join an FS. To help with trades. Kinda defeats the purpose when it takes forever to get those trades as I select each individal good filter only to have it move on me and end up taking someone else's trade by mistake because it changed in a split second. I'm started to avoid the trader on mobile and just wait until I can get access to the PC in the evenings to take FS trades.

 

[Handgrenade]

This.

The amount of times this has happened to me even as a large city with the sentient goods. My biggest issue is on the mobile when trying to take trades of just my FS members and it starts shifting and another player replaces my FS member with the same trade and constantly shifts between those 2 players. I would love more than anything for there to be an FS only toggle on the mobile as that alone would prevent me from taking most of the trades I didn't intend to. I proposed the idea but it seemed to have died due to poor support.

The list drops down. Scroll to the bottom trade of the player and it wont happen until the trades run out.

 

[Deleted User - 4646370]

The list drops down. Scroll to the bottom trade of the player and it wont happen until the trades run out.

This doesn't work if two players (e. g. a fellow and a neighbor) place exactly the same trade several times. The trades of same value shuffle each time you take one.

 

[Handgrenade]

Really? They didn't leap to add code for the .001% of the population who have S-Pens? Appalling. That certainly makes it okay to cheat.

Trust that i have in my short time playing payed for that S-Pen update. They can easily fix it, forge of empires has my S-pen working without any issues. The thing is its a mobile game and the developers should input the code. Easy as copy/paste. I however could cheat if i wanted to without much issue but dont feel the need, I am very liberal about funding games i like and as probably their newest top 1% of spenders feel like they should input the code. It has cost them 600 dollars sofar, and that's only 2 months. How much are they making off you? Or are you not paying them at all.

 

[Handgrenade]

This doesn't work if two players (e. g. a fellow and a neighbor) place exactly the same trade several times. The trades of same value shuffle each time you take one.

Sorry i have not noticed that at all. Try clearing your game cache and you will most likely not have that issue.

 

[Deleted User - 4646370]

Sorry i have not noticed that at all. Try clearing your game cache and you will most likely not have that issue.

Playing on app for more than 2 years I actually cleared the cache several times...
To be clear on what I speak about :
Imagine you see one 10k/10k trade, then three 5000/5000 ones and a 2000/2000 one, and there are other trades above and behind these ones.
Now I take one of the 5000/5000. As you said the list drops down, so I will see the trade above the 10k/10k (e.g. another 10k/10k or a 20k/20k, or a 3-star trade), then the 10k/10k, the two remaining 5000/5000 and finally the 2000/2000, the next ones remaining below the screen.
But now if the three 5000/5000 were from different players A, B and C, and you take for example the one from player C, you're not guaranteed the one from player A is still above the one from player B.

 

[Ashrem]

Trust that i have in my short time playing payed for that S-Pen update. They can easily fix it, forge of empires has my S-pen working without any issues. The thing is its a mobile game and the developers should input the code. Easy as copy/paste. I however could cheat if i wanted to without much issue but dont feel the need, I am very liberal about funding games i like and as probably their newest top 1% of spenders feel like they should input the code. It has cost them 600 dollars sofar, and that's only 2 months. How much are they making off you? Or are you not paying them at all.

This not forge of Empires. It does not share any designers, or code with Forge of Empires. What the Forge of Empires team do is irrelevant to what the Elvenar team do.

Whether they can do it easily or not (which is an assumption) doesn't oblige them to do it because someone asked for it. If enough people want it, they will do it. I'm guessing that not enough people want it yet.

 

[Handgrenade]

This not forge of Empires. It does not share any designers, or code with Forge of Empires. What the Forge of Empires team do is irrelevant to what the Elvenar team do.

Whether they can do it easily or not (which is an assumption) doesn't oblige them to do it because someone asked for it. If enough people want it, they will do it. I'm guessing that not enough people want it yet.

Yes this is not FOE. However they are the same company and should be able to help if they asked. But it isnt about "its their game they do what they want" mentality. Its more of an easy fix for a game that should already be there. Games like Last Shelter Survival had it also, they would fix stuff if asked to by a player that paid them money... because thats how they make more money and keep players spending and playing but Elvenar dev team doesnt seem to care which is why they dont make as much money as Last shelter survival. That game probably makes in one month what elvenar makes in 6.just saying.

 

[Ashrem]

Yes this is not FOE. However they are the same company and should be able to help if they asked. But it isnt about "its their game they do what they want" mentality. Its more of an easy fix for a game that should already be there. Games like Last Shelter Survival had it also, they would fix stuff if asked to by a player that paid them money... because thats how they make more money and keep players spending and playing but Elvenar dev team doesnt seem to care which is why they dont make as much money as Last shelter survival. That game probably makes in one month what elvenar makes in 6.just saying.

There's lots wrong with that. Each game has it's own design team, and if they're doing their job right, they have an overarching plan that does not relate to what other games are doing, so there's no reason for them to ask another team for help.

If it matters to enough people, they'll either do it or say no. So the fact they said no either means there aren't enough people who care, or they don't think the risk of losing those who do is great enough to invest time in it. To return to my point. The fact some players want it, doesn't mean they have to do it. I've also given them money. Lots of money, relatively speaking, and I don't care if the stylus on my Samsung tablet ever does anything. if it's very important to you, and they've said they aren't going to do it, you have the option to never give them any more money.

 

[Eldenisa Tiege]

I am also tired of not being able to trade my goods unless I GIVE them away to 1-star and even worse, 0-star traders. I have had to sit on my Sentient 2 and 3 trades for almost a week because ALL the trades are BAD. Who is trading with these people? If no one traded with them hopefully they would go back to fair trading 2-3stars.
It used to be the only 1-star trades were players helping other players during Fellowship Adventures. Now the trading board is full of players gouging other players. It's not fun any more.

 

[Darielle]

I am also tired of not being able to trade my goods unless I GIVE them away to 1-star and even worse, 0-star traders. I have had to sit on my Sentient 2 and 3 trades for almost a week because ALL the trades are BAD. Who is trading with these people? If no one traded with them hopefully they would go back to fair trading 2-3stars.
It used to be the only 1-star trades were players helping other players during Fellowship Adventures. Now the trading board is full of players gouging other players. It's not fun any more.

I'm not sure I understand why you'd have to wait almost a week to get your trades taken. Wouldn't they be snapped up if all the other trades were bad? Just trying to understand.