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    Your Elvenar Team

Methods your fellowship uses to control badge production

Smooper

Well-Known Member
This is a survey or maybe a collection of ideas for how fellowships run the Fellowship Adventure. I know many don't do anything special but for those who like to track badges, what do you do? Private spreadsheet, multiple posts in your fellowship mail, another outside source for running your Adventure? Our fellowship mostly loves the Adventure but we are having some growing pains on how to be more efficient so any information/links would be appreciated.
 

Katwick

Cartographer
A signup on Google Sheets works pretty well, because you can allow everyone who's interested to edit it, and you can create Columns for each requirement with a Top Total, and a row for each participant. And maybe a "who knows" row for outliers.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
My group hate spread sheets or any extra effort going outside the game (or at least they used to ... haven't tried in a while). So I basically tell them to write down their badges in the Badge Thread every night just before they leave for the night, after they've dropped any badges they're going to drop. I get up very early in the morning and see what everyone's got before the start of the new day (I'm on the east coast and most are from US, so that works), and then on that same thread I say, "We're low on this or that, guys." It gets sorted.
 

Siorse

Active Member
A Fellowship I was in encourage everyone to hold off on doing anything in spire or tournament until the FA starts to maximize ghost-in-a-bottle badges as those are probably the most finite.

Other than that running the FA seems mostly an exercise in herding cats in my opinion.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
A Fellowship I was in encourage everyone to hold off on doing anything in spire or tournament until the FA starts to maximize ghost-in-a-bottle badges as those are probably the most finite.

Especially Spire. If you've been playing for a while you have lots of provinces, so it doesn't really hurt to start the tourney.
But since the spire has more limited number of encounters, I like to wait until the FA starts.
Of course, this depends on whether the player has enough timers to speed through the spire.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I've been FA mage for years in very competitive FA groups. Have won a few. I have a custom FA spreadsheet, but I don't track what badges people are making. I find there are many downsides to tracking badges made.

(1) People don't like dealing with spreadsheets. Some people already don't like FAs (*gasp*). Don't make the experience worse for your peeps.
(2) Mobile players can't handle spreadsheets well or reading off inventories well. Even if you use the messages, they'd have to flip back and forth to type it out and spreadsheets do not have a friendly UI on mobile either. It is an unhappy experience for mobile players, even if they voluntarily *want* to report their numbers. See also: Point #1.
(3) Time zones. I have a group on EN. We span the globe. Most people check Elvenar at the start of the day and end of the day, with the occasional lunch breaks. Some people are a whole day ahead though. People in Eastern Europe may start their day and then it's 3hrs til UK wakes up. Another 5hrs til East Coast wakes up and another 3hrs until West Coast wakes up. So by the time one group reports, the data for others are already several hours old. Badges have been dumped and created in that time. There is no way your data is accurate. It's not possible to get real time snapshot of where everyone is at bc some people are sleeping etc. No point in doing all that extra work for inaccurate data and if you rely on it, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Save everyone the headache and don't spreadsheet it.
(4) A player's inventory is not reflective of their availability to dump it. Say a player made 500 blacksmiths. Hooray! Wow! Amazing! All those things. Said player only shows up right before bed. Wah wah. He might only actually get 10 badges in. If you're relying on him for your blacksmiths, then you've also shot yourself in the foot.

I use my spreadsheet mostly for tracking what badges people have dumped because we play internal game within a game. It was also necessary in the times before they gave us the info about who has and hasn't dumped badges in each stage yet.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
I've been FA mage for years in very competitive FA groups. Have won a few. I have a custom FA spreadsheet, but I don't track what badges people are making. I find there are many downsides to tracking badges made.

(1) People don't like dealing with spreadsheets. Some people already don't like FAs (*gasp*). Don't make the experience worse for your peeps.
(2) Mobile players can't handle spreadsheets well or reading off inventories well. Even if you use the messages, they'd have to flip back and forth to type it out and spreadsheets do not have a friendly UI on mobile either. It is an unhappy experience for mobile players, even if they voluntarily *want* to report their numbers. See also: Point #1.
(3) Time zones. I have a group on EN. We span the globe. Most people check Elvenar at the start of the day and end of the day, with the occasional lunch breaks. Some people are a whole day ahead though. People in Eastern Europe may start their day and then it's 3hrs til UK wakes up. Another 5hrs til East Coast wakes up and another 3hrs until West Coast wakes up. So by the time one group reports, the data for others are already several hours old. Badges have been dumped and created in that time. There is no way your data is accurate. It's not possible to get real time snapshot of where everyone is at bc some people are sleeping etc. No point in doing all that extra work for inaccurate data and if you rely on it, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Save everyone the headache and don't spreadsheet it.
(4) A player's inventory is not reflective of their availability to dump it. Say a player made 500 blacksmiths. Hooray! Wow! Amazing! All those things. Said player only shows up right before bed. Wah wah. He might only actually get 10 badges in. If you're relying on him for your blacksmiths, then you've also shot yourself in the foot.

I use my spreadsheet mostly for tracking what badges people have dumped because we play internal game within a game. It was also necessary in the times before they gave us the info about who has and hasn't dumped badges in each stage yet.
I feel a less structured method would work best for our fellowship also but I have concerns. How do you excel in the FA if you don't know what is happening and what will happen? The example of the 500 blacksmith badge guy works well. Don't record what he produces is fine but why is someone who is on twice a day making a bunch of badges that won't get used? Should someone being dictating what kind of badges get made? How do you have your team efficiently create badges that can be used almost as quickly as they are made?
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
One other thing, what ratio do you like for building your shanty town workshops and manufactories?
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
One other thing, what ratio do you like for building your shanty town workshops and manufactories?
The ratio I use is 3 workshops to every 2 t1s, but I know others disagree. It's important to make more workshops than t1s, though.

But the above statement also depends on a lot of things. I, for one, make almost all t1s and set 90 percent to statues and 10 percent to necks. Once the FA starts and the items get collected, I tear out most and build workshops in that space. It all depends upon how many other people will build statues. If you know you'll be low (especially for the pit) then that's a method for ensuring a good stash. (That's assuming I can put in a minimum of 300 t1s before the FA starts. And that assumption is based on how many teleports I have ... so many different factors to consider.)
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
@Smooper ,

Just my opinion as a player, tell your players what is happening and what will happen.

The FA is won or lost in the pit. The pit requires an equal number of all badges, so players should try to make an equal number of all badges. A few players will specialize but you can't spin the pit if only one player has bracelets or statues and they log in twice a day. Dump overstock on the map.
 

XLWizard

Eater of Crawfish
We start a thread for each specialty badge (say Blacksmiths "BS") and how many we need for the current path(s) we are on. Ex. BS - 86.
Then as each member creats BS's we subtract the number we have and post it to this thread. For example, if I have just completed 10 BS's I would go to the post and post this..

BS - 86-10=76.

And the post goes on (just like the beat).
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
My spreadsheet is for me. I enter a lot of data that I collect from first the countdown threads for carpenters, farmers, blacksmiths, necklaces and statues. I start with the total needed and people subtract what they start form the total. I enter that into my SS and it tells me who has what at what time....and then I put the data from the waypoints in, and I then know what we have and what we need.

All of this is built on the idea of knowing what we need from the beginning. So about a week before the fs I ask people their intentions. I get about 60-70 percent response if I ask several times. We measure it by workshops you can build. So a player says they can build 50 workshops (and are willing to do so). We add up the number and multiply by 35, which gives us an approximate point total as to what we will probably do. The thing is, I've found those who don't report sometimes go whole hog and sometimes don't play at all. In any case, this sets the point goal.

I then test various paths in my spreadsheet. I can put in any path and it will tell me the number of each badge I need. I try diffferent paths (it also tells me if the path is complete or not so I can go hog wild in variations). I eventually find the best path for our abilities and that's the path we take.

So, a few days day before announcement I put up an explanation of what we are doing and how. Part of that is that we plan ahead.

For instance, I tell people to build T1 lvl 1 mfrs instead of workshops. Then, 2 days before the start they build Statues. They count down the Statues as they start them and if the Statues get done (which they usually do) the next group to start, starts necklaces. Usually, by the start we have all the Statues and half the necklaces we need done or at least started.

I then announce the path we will take. And urge them to stick to the path even when we do the whole of state 1 and 2. Why? Because we want to practice discipline. It took me about a year to get to the point where people actually stick to the path in stage 3, and by "practicing" in the first two stages we eventually got too the point were "straying" is pretty rare.

As the waypoints get done I check them off in my ss. and it keeps me appraised as to how many more we need. If something falls behind I notify everyone in both msgs and chat. I put out a Daily Report as we go with anything else.

It's a lot of work but when it goes well we get to where ever our goal is for that FA. So that's a plus.

AJ
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
in terms of reporting inventory, i find the easiest method to be taking a screen snap and sharing it in discord.
no spreadsheets, no extra typing, blah blah. and you get the timestamp right on the post. and no one else has to see the huge chain of responses and emails. but of course that means you have to set up a discord server.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
I personally absolutely loathe a ton of mail during FA. I will leave a Fellowship that expects countdowns on badges, especially on multiple threads, that is just excessive - in my opinion. I am happy to use Spreadsheets, you know I even create them for all of you (link momentarily). But I use them to sort out how many badges we will need, and to get a feel for others' capabilities. I prefer to read a mail that gives guidance on areas where we will be weak, and follow direction.

As a leader, I watch who is reckless, doesn't follow instructions and selfishly fills in all of the 'easy' badges on the map. We have a policy, no player that is active, should get left out of a map (especially maps 2 and 3). One of my Harandar FSs actually filled all of map 1 while I was in bed (when I checked twice before work, all the 'easy' waypoints had been filled) and while I was at work, and someone actually said, "oh well it's just a Carting Library" (someone being one of the selfish players of course). I figure if we all make badges to the best of our abilities, and save them for map 3 when things get tedious, it will all work out in the end.
 
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crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
We start a thread for each specialty badge (say Blacksmiths "BS") and how many we need for the current path(s) we are on. Ex. BS - 86.
Then as each member creats BS's we subtract the number we have and post it to this thread. For example, if I have just completed 10 BS's I would go to the post and post this..

BS - 86-10=76.

And the post goes on (just like the beat).
Although this runs into trouble where you've allocated BS specifically to someone, but they may or may not show up to drop them. Like this week, we had someone lose internet for half a week because someone's husband got overly proactive with yardwork and took out the power and other things cutting stuff. So if you've subtracted their production from the total, you're relying on this person to have it, but wah wah...the may or may not be able to get on. If you’ve only made enough for the count, then the whole show could potentially come to a standstill if someone doesn’t show.

Don't record what he produces is fine but why is someone who is on twice a day making a bunch of badges that won't get used?
The forum is full of people lamenting they have too many leftover badges. This is more common than you think.

Should someone being dictating what kind of badges get made? How do you have your team efficiently create badges that can be used almost as quickly as they are made?
We are a competitive FA group. We are making excessive badges from the beginning to survive long hauling the Pit. We don’t need to count badges bc to survive multiple days in the Pit, you need a crap ton of everything, above and beyond what all 3 trails on all 3 stages ask for.

The strategies do shift from FS to FS though. You have to know who is in the group and what their availability is. In one FS, I am the smallest city so I am on bracelet duties. Next city is already 10 chapters ahead. If we push, everyone has massive real estate to play with bc we have tons of end gamers in chap 20. In another FS, we are a lot smaller with many cities not yet in settlements. Here I am one of our bigger cities. Then I need to carry the weight on them peaky farmers and such bc I have more expansions to shantytown with.
 

Lady Dastardly

Well-Known Member
Apology in advance - this is long.
Like almost everything else in Elvenar, I find the answer to this varies based on what kind of FS it is, and what the FA goals are.

My goal with every FA is to give the members the knowledge and tools, to be able to balance their own production. If players make approximately the same number of each badge over the course of the FA, they will have an easier time donating their badges. I know some FS's tell their members exactly what to make and when to make it, but I really, really don't like micromanaging players. I feel like that's a recipe for making the FA stressful for everyone, and with the crappy prizes it should at least be fun.

For small FS's (either small in member number, or FS's full of of newer players) where it can be a struggle to get through the maps, I like using countdown threads for the long production badges. The countdowns serve as more of an educational tool so players have a sense of how many of each badge will be needed and helps to ingrain the badge requirements. It gets them thinking in terms of the sets that are needed to produce badges. They are highly inaccurate though, given that you will never have 100% of members using them, the math can be a bit tricky for new players if you ask for the count as the badges are started, and doesn't help if players dump those badges into waypoints you aren't completing. This puts the highest demand on the players of anything I use, but it can provide a rough structure to help get over the initial hump of getting all the prizes, and eventually clearing all the maps, since everyone can see where you're deficient.

The next tier are FS's looking to be more competitive, but not vying for the top spots. These are FS's that clear all (or almost all) of all 3 maps and spend a decent amount of time in the pit. For those, I favor semi-directed production and inventory calls. Semi-directed means I post daily status updates with recommendations/reminders about what to produce. My goal here is to teach how to balance. Most players don't think about things like 4 T1's can make 2 statues or 2 necklaces every 2 days, or 10 workshops can make 2 smiths, or 2 farmers and a carpenter every day. Understanding that is the key to balanced badge production. Inventory calls can include requesting an initial report of what members have built (i.e. how many added T1's and workshops), and then either daily or occasional reporting of badge inventory. I find daily to be overkill, and usually reserve requests for when we enter the pit and then maybe once again with a day or 2 to go. It's really just to check that we don't have an overload of any one badge type. Often players in these FS's like a bit of handholding of the "Just tell me what to make and I'll make it" variety, or there may be a number of members who aren't able to play frequently and need to focus 1 and 2 day badges, so this can help you manage shifting productions, or organize a pit party to help pull badges from the time limited players, if there is an obvious imbalance. This is also highly inaccurate given the reasons @crackie stated above, but I accept and am comfortable with that.

For the highly competitive FS, I'm in total agreement with @crackie that tracking isn't necessary. Getting together 25 crazy people is what you need, lol.

Regardless, I always run a private spreadsheet. I track initial builds (I don't ask for these, I just use elvenarchitect to get the numbers) and badges placed on the maps. If I'm doing inventory calls, I track those as well. My tracking doesn't really determine the FS's success though. It's all about communication, encouraging balanced production, and ultimately, individual player commitment.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@Lady Dastardly Your description focuses on leadership as the key, in my opinion. And you are absolutely right. Communicate often and clearly. I have daily reports and sometimes half day reports of how we are doing, countdown threads, and even, sometimes, assignments, for those who have large FA Farms (I don't think of mine as a "shanty town" because every workshop and T1 mfr is carefully crafted by skilled and loving craftsmen...right?).

In addition, you can't, I think, wait for the FA to start before you share what the goal is, how your are going to get there as a team. If you don't like writing or don't care to write well and clearly, you are probably going to struggle all along the way, in the FA or not.

So, yes!, it's about leadership. Thanks for the well written reminder. I wish I had said it myself.

AJ
 
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