Mischievous Therapy - Discussion

[StarLoad]

Actually, if you were here before the limitation of 1 complete set, You will make many more spell fragments I have 2 of the Libraries and 6 of the endless scrolls so I get 450x2 and 75x6 = 1350 per day in SF. I had more out before but have been cutting back, to make room for other bldgs.

Ed

 

[Yogi Dave]

LOL, yes. I'm down to 5 moonstone sets placed with copious mana trees to boot. Before crafting came about, I'd place and sell buildings from inventory just to keep from getting too many pages of junk. Now, its 20 pages of mostly junk buildings.

 

[Henroo]

When the Witch Doctor building was first announced, I was rather excited. The Cerberus is my primary light melee unit, so it seemed a building that gives them for free would be great. But then I actually ran the numbers. I am ch 19, so a fully evolved Witch Doctor is going to give 8600 Cerburus in a day. My Training Grounds is currently L32 and I have a level 21 Victory Springs, so total training speed is 1208. I also have a L23 Simia boosting troop production. With these I can make 17,335 Cerburus in 2 hours, 10 minutes. This means the entire daily output of a fully evolved Witch Doctor is only equal to roughly 65 minutes of production for me. I was wondering how the numbers look for others?

 

[Yogi Dave]

Training Grounds level 33, SimSap, level 35, Victory Springs level 32. With my training size that gives 12969 per hr. With its 30 sq. footprint it produces 432 per sq. per hour. Witch Doc is 9600 per day or 25 per sq. per hour. So, production in training grounds is over 17 times the rate per sq. as the witch doc. But the ones from the Witch doc are free and the training grounds need 22k pop and 48k cult to maintain and hammer cost of the troops in that sq. per hour is 4142.

 

[Henroo]

Training Grounds level 33, SimSap, level 35, Victory Springs level 32. With my training size that gives 12969 per hr. With its 30 sq. footprint it produces 432 per sq. per hour. Witch Doc is 9600 per day or 25 per sq. per hour. So, production in training grounds is over 17 times the rate per sq. as the witch doc. But the ones from the Witch doc are free and the training grounds need 22k pop and 48k cult to maintain and hammer cost of the troops in that sq. per hour is 4142.

I don't think many late game cities have issues with supplies. Especially if they have magic workshops. So I think the cost of supplies to make the troops really does not matter. However you do have a good point about how much population and culture it takes to have the Training Grounds.

 

[Smooper]

I find my cerberus are mainly cannon fodder. I rarely use LM troops though except for easy battles.

 

[Henroo]

I find my cerberus are mainly cannon fodder. I rarely use LM troops though except for easy battles.

Cerberus is pretty good once you get the 3 star promotion in Orcs. By far the best LM troop. Their high movement rate somewhat countacts the longer range of light range and mage units. It is frustrating because LM troops are supposed to be strong against LR and mages. But if you are using Sword Dancers or Ax Barbarians, then often the mage units or LR units can shoot them up and kill them before the LM unit ever gets in range.

 

[Smooper]

Problem I have with them is that they run to far ahead and the HM and HR make short work of them by the end of round 1. Good for taking out a specific mage or LR unit but don't expect many survivors.

 

[Lelanya]

Yep I have to go with Henroo. I learned to fight facing the Sorceress with movement 3, range 4. You must bring along an equalizer , and there's nothing better than a couple of wardogs. Kill the Sorceress and take a good bite out of mortar, too.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

My advice to everyone is upgrade your Magic Academy to Level 5 as quickly as possible. At Level 4 it took me 10.29 hours to create one Combining Catalyst. But at Level 5, it only takes 6 hours. Until their Magic Academy is fully upgraded, it’s difficult for new Elvenar players to
“Gain Combining Catalysts.”

Why must creating just one Combining Catalyst take 10.29 hours? We only have three places where we can find this Crafting Resource: Magic Academy, Moonstone Library and the Spire. I mostly use my Combining Catalysts for recipes. So why must this crafting resource show up so many times in event quests? Thankfully, in Quests, 45, 52, 54, 61, 63 and 73 the game devs gave us alternative choices so we don’t have to wait several hours for each Combining Catalyst we create.

In Quest 50 though, we don’t have a choice. We need to create 2 Combining Catalysts. For some of us that means waiting for the Spire to reappear in about 15 hours. Other players who have the new tech tree can’t visit the Spire until they unlock the research in Chapter 5, which means they’ll have to wait 20.58 hours or 12 hours if they have their Magic Academy at Level 5, to create 2 Combining Catalysts, or spend diamonds, to complete Quest 50. Not fair.

Because I used up all my Combining Catalysts to craft recipes (had to have that Queen Fairy’s Retreat which cost 8 Combining Catalysts), I don’t have any more available. I unlocked the Spire in Chapter 3 because I have the old tech tree so I’ll return to Elvenar when the Spire reappears.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

@Tauriel Dragonwood in addition to the Library set, there have been two event sets in the last year or so that also give 1 CC per day for a complete set.

And for crafting CCs, I will gladly use time boosters to speed them up in the Magic Academy, both for quests and to craft something in the current rotation that I really want.

 

[StarLoad]

When the Witch Doctor building was first announced, I was rather excited. The Cerberus is my primary light melee unit, so it seemed a building that gives them for free would be great. But then I actually ran the numbers. I am ch 19, so a fully evolved Witch Doctor is going to give 8600 Cerburus in a day. My Training Grounds is currently L32 and I have a level 21 Victory Springs, so total training speed is 1208. I also have a L23 Simia boosting troop production. With these I can make 17,335 Cerburus in 2 hours, 10 minutes. This means the entire daily output of a fully evolved Witch Doctor is only equal to roughly 65 minutes of production for me. I was wondering how the numbers look for others?

Nice logic, and while I agree, I offer one correction, you assume that one is making the Cerberus. I don't so I just get free troops. ANd I have been making them since the day I made the training grounds. and I have 4.2 million of them. So for me, the Witch Doctor is a nice addition, and mine is already at level 10. Going to try for a second one.

Ed

 

[Yogi Dave]

@Tauriel Dragonwood in addition to the Library set, there have been two event sets in the last year or so that also give 1 CC per day for a complete set.

The two sets are

Forbidden Ruins: Jan - Feb 2022
Pilgrim's Manor: May - June 2021

NOTE: The CC is produced in the building that needs the most links and must be fully linked to produce it.

 

[Henroo]

Nice logic, and while I agree, I offer one correction, you assume that one is making the Cerberus. I don't so I just get free troops.

Ed

If you don't make any Cerberus, what do you produce in your Training Grounds? Do you run Orc Strats full time? To me Cerberus and Orc Strats are the best units available there. Dryads are ok, but I think Rangers are better. Orc Warriors and Banshees just do not seem that good. In the case of Orc Warriors, Vallarian Guards are much better. And in the case of Banshees either Priests or Blossoms are much better (depending on if you are an elf or a human).

 

[StarLoad]

If you don't make any Cerberus, what do you produce in your Training Grounds? Do you run Orc Strats full time? To me Cerberus and Orc Strats are the best units available there. Dryads are ok, but I think Rangers are better. Orc Warriors and Banshees just do not seem that good. In the case of Orc Warriors, Vallarian Guards are much better. And in the case of Banshees either Priests or Blossoms are much better (depending on if you are an elf or a human).

Todays Troop inventory

Januarys Troop inventory

For the most part, I have been making Banshees in the training grounds and Orc Strats and recently started on Dryads. The Jan troops were after a push week where I did 58 provinces to 6 rounds, so I had used a lot of troops.

Ed

 

[crackie]

Cerberus is pretty good once you get the 3 star promotion in Orcs. By far the best LM troop. Their high movement rate somewhat countacts the longer range of light range and mage units. It is frustrating because LM troops are supposed to be strong against LR and mages. But if you are using Sword Dancers or Ax Barbarians, then often the mage units or LR units can shoot them up and kill them before the LM unit ever gets in range.

No free troops from buildings is ever going to be enough to sustain an active army though, unless it's a unit you rarely use (I'm looking at you, Sword Dancers) or you have one of those parked cities. Yeah, you can blanket cover your entire city with Ground of Orc Strategists if you never have to worry about settlements or chaptering up ever again.

Dryads are ok, but I think Rangers are better.

Dryads are needed to protect my mages from Mist Walkers. I train them often. They’re also not quite interchangeable with Rangers as Dryads are for HM and Ranger for mages.

Problem I have with them is that they run to far ahead and the HM and HR make short work of them by the end of round 1. Good for taking out a specific mage or LR unit but don't expect many survivors.

In that situation, you're better off Blossoming the mages, especially if you have a high DA or MMM down, than using LR or doggies.

 

[Ashrem]

Actually, if you were here before the limitation of 1 complete set, You will make many more spell fragments I have 2 of the Libraries and 6 of the endless scrolls so I get 450x2 and 75x6 = 1350 per day in SF. I had more out before but have been cutting back, to make room for other bldgs.

Ed

I have no idea what you mean....

 

[Ashrem]

If you don't make any Cerberus, what do you produce in your Training Grounds?

Nothing goes through heavy ranged like Ghastly Bansee, and the Poison Dryads are frequently superior to regular archers for mosing down heavy melee. I try to avoid using orcs for troop production because I never have enough of them.

 

[Henroo]

Nothing goes through heavy ranged like Ghastly Bansee, and the Poison Dryads are frequently superior to regular archers for mosing down heavy melee. I try to avoid using orcs for troop production because I never have enough of them.

Sure Banshees are great if you run up against a lineup that consists solely of heavy range. I've got 100 or so squads of them in my elvish city for situations like this. But if the enemy lineup is a mix of heavy ranged and other stuff, Blossoms are better against most combos than Banshees. I do not bother with Banshees at all in my human cities because 5 units of Priests will wipe out 5 units of heavy ranged just as effectively. The Banshee does have better bonuses than the Priests do against HR, but the Priest has a range of 5. This compensates a great deal.

I think the Dryad's large bonuses against HM are a case of overkill. I think LR vs HM is one of the most lopsided matchups in the game. Any LR unit is going to mow down a HM unit. Especially since virtually every combat oriented player in the game has Needles giving their LR a bonus. And many will frequently have a Enlightened Light Range building out for heavy tournament/spire combat. Under these circumstances, even crappy Crossbowmen can take out HM rather easily.

Dryads are not bad troops. I think they are the 2nd best LR unit in the game. But Rangers will do better against most combos of enemies. The Ranger has a movement of 4 and initiative of 20. Dryad has movement of 3 and initiative of 17. The Ranger will go before any other unit in the game except Mistwalkers and due to their 4 movement/4 range combo they will normally get in range on turn 1, barring really bad terrain. Getting off the first strike really helps in Elvenar combat. And Ranger is the only LR unit in the game with strikeback, which makes a big difference. Mind you, this analysis does assume the Dryads and the Rangers are the same level. And there is a period in the game where Dryads are 3 star but Rangers are 2 star. And during that period I did use Dryads over Rangers in many encounters. But once I got my 3 star Rangers in ch 15, I switched to them as my primary LR unit.
*edited once

 

[Ashrem]

Sure Banshees are great if you run up against a lineup that consists solely of heavy melee. I've got 100 or so squads of them in my elvish city for situations like this. But if the enemy lineup is a mix of heavy ranged and other stuff, Blossoms are better against most combos than Banshees.

A couple of things

• Heavy range, not melee.
• You can't make blossom mages in the Training Grounds, so they are irrelevant to what we make there.
• On average, ranged fighters work better than non-ranged because they suffer less strikekback. I am predisposed to avoid light melee if any other troop will do.

Anyway, you asked. I use banshees on a regular basis typically if there are more Heavy ranged than heavy melee, and becuase they can move fast to get back out of the way and across the field to another target.

It's likely we don't fight the same way. I don't assume you ought to use Banshees, and you probably shouldn't assume I'm going to use Cerebus if anything else can do the job.