Mist Walker Roulette

[crackie]

This thread is dedicated to Mist Walkers shooting at whatever the heck she wants because I think she is too much of a Child of Chaos to be able to predict what the heck she's going to do. It's a joyous day when she goes after a golem, but many tears are shed when she knocks out an entire stack of mages. Given that she doesn't always go after mages though, I like to play with fire. The examples I'll post will offer her 3 different lambs at the altar.

Mist Walker from position IV shooting at Dryad I

Mist Walker from position II shooting at Archer II.

Mist Walker from Position I shooting at Archer in Position IV.

 

[Lelanya]

Well yeah when they changed our attack and defense bonuses a couple of months back they added a randomized target function to the battle AI. I use every troop type, so have seen light melee run right up and attack my heavy hitters! (who are happy to take them out the moment their turn comes up), and yep, if you get a scratch on any troop, those mistwalkers will abandon their typical prey to run off after them, go figure.

 

[crackie]

I have not noticed the AI being more random in the past, but I have noticed the debuff wonkiness. There are strong probabilities, like they go after rangers/archers first for the most part. Some exceptions with equally strong probabilities are Abbots and Enchantress will go after your mages instead of Archers if mages are within range, as will Hellhounds. Dreaded Mist Walkers tend to do whatever the heck she wants though. She is a mage specialist with bloody +90% attack bonus for terminator level 3-star Mist Walkers. Yet, she doesn’t always go after the mages, which makes me want to gamble and still take them with me when she is around. Buddy system, don’t leave home without her!

 

[crackie]

Here's today's batch. She is favoring the Dryad. There's a new bait in town. Plot thickens...

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

This thread is dedicated to Mist Walkers shooting at whatever the heck she wants because I think she is too much of a Child of Chaos to be able to predict what the heck she's going to do. It's a joyous day when she goes after a golem, but many tears are shed when she knocks out an entire stack of mages. Given that she doesn't always go after mages though, I like to play with fire. The examples I'll post will offer her 3 different lambs at the altar.

Mist Walker from position IV shooting at Dryad I
View attachment 12093
Mist Walker from position II shooting at Archer II.
View attachment 12094
Mist Walker from Position I shooting at Archer in Position IV.
View attachment 12095

Well known.

In the first round (and first round only) there is a different attack order, I did post it once somewhere here on the forum.
dryad and archer are before blossom mages but not the ranger.

If you can't find it you can test it out. for example sorceres is attacked before archer and dryad I think.

 

[crackie]

Well known.

In the first round (and first round only) there is a different attack order, I did post it once somewhere here on the forum.
dryad and archer are before blossom mages but not the ranger.

If you can't find it you can test it out. for example sorceres is attacked before archer and dryad I think.

I know they generally favor Archers because they somewhat follow initiative order, but I've not seen them target Dryads, esp since Dryads go last in light range class. Also, Buddy is peppered in these examples as part of 3 different choices of sacrificial lamb (I'm a terrible friend), and she was spared every single time, despite being in range.

 

[samidodamage]

If you can't find it

I remember the post and testing it out for myself and seeing it on the battlefield personally! Can I find it now? Of course not! Maybe I'll try again later.

I pair Archers/Blossoms frequently as a manual fighter. I use 1 DA, 1 UUU, 1 MMM, 1 ELR weekly (I have more in one city this week; we're doing a Spire Gold and a tourney chest push). I have lvl 21 Needles(+30%) & lvl 17(+25%) Dragon Abbey and a fed lvl 10 Fire Phoenix. With those boosts and my ability to control troop movement, Archers are great against enemy LR, Mages and HM. Blossoms are great against enemy Mages, HR and HM.
That said, there was a time when I thought Bud Sorceress was badly maligned. Those Blossoms are still squishy and one mistake even in manual fighting and they're toast! Buddy can survive better. If I have time and am in the mood to play around, I'll send in the sorceress now. I get them free from the Flying Academy. I do this with other units I don't usually use. I like the looks of the Bumblebee Stables, so I'll play with Drones sometimes, too, lol!
I don't train Dryads. Somewhere around here is also a post (probably by CrazyWizard, too!) that explains why (once they're both 3* units) Archers are hands down always the best choice between the two. The Ranger is a good choice if there's no MW in the enemy lineup or when you're not using Blossoms; they don't draw that first fire away from the Blossoms. I summarize it as: I prefer dead enemy troops over wounded enemy troops where I derive no benefit from the enemies' reduced attack unless they live long enough to attack me again. The reduced defense cast by the Archer means it's easier to kill that enemy unit before it gets another shot off at all.

 

[Myne]

@crackie @Lelanya Didn't yall know those Mistwalkers are the significant other of the Chaos Demons? You never know what they are going to do and if they smell blood, it's on like Donkey Kong!

 

[crackie]

That said, there was a time when I thought Bud Sorceress was badly maligned.

Was...past tense? She's still badly maligned!

 

[Gkyr]

Oh boy! A manual fighting thread. I can hardly restrain myself.

Well yeah when they changed our attack and defense bonuses a couple of months back they added a randomized target function to the battle AI.

I acknowledge your experience with varieties of battle attacks, but what is your source to introduce a randomized target fn? I don't see it. Sure, we cannot completely reverse-engineer the battlefield behavior of the algorithm, but I would avoid explaining our incomplete understanding of the algo as a random function unless it came down to us from a reliable source. A complex decision hierarchy can look random.

Well known.

In the first round (and first round only) there is a different attack order, I did post it once somewhere here on the forum.
dryad and archer are before blossom mages but not the ranger.

If you can't find it you can test it out. for example sorceres is attacked before archer and dryad I think.

I would like to see that post, if you can find it.

I remember the post and testing it out for myself and seeing it on the battlefield personally! Can I find it now? Of course not! Maybe I'll try again later.

If you can try one more time, I'd like to test it out, too...

I don't train Dryads. Somewhere around here is also a post (probably by CrazyWizard, too!) that explains why (once they're both 3* units) Archers are hands down always the best choice between the two.

Well, like everything else around here, something's value depends upon gaming style.
I train Dryads and use them in very specific scenarios. They are like Mist Walkers without that extra hex space of range. By that I mean they also have a high attack rating but low health. Against HM, they shoot down 50% more enemy than Archers or Rangers do; their 3* attack range low value is the 3* Archer attack range high value. As an example, for certain battle squadron ratios two Dryad*3 can take out a BraveKnight*3 where it would take three Archers*3 or Rangers*3 to accomplish the same thing. That frees up one extra squad to apply to another skirmish. However, if they cannot be protected, they are not going to be able to perform for you.

By the way, we are not playing against an AI but against an algorithm. If it were an AI, it would learn and we would all be quitting Elvenar.

 

[crackie]

After lulling myself into a false sense of security that I can bait Mist Walkers into going after Dryads, I decided to explore the question "Under what conditions will the Mist Walker go after mages?" and "Which mage does she favor?" At one point, I got too caught up in trying different combos that I lost track of the thesis I was experimenting with and realized I was throwing mages into situations with no Mist Walkers around. Oops. Many stacks of mages were sacrificed in the name of science, but in all cases, she left Buddy alone.

Case 1: She appears to not like Ranger's strikeback and avoids them.

Case 2: She still avoids Ranger's strike back and went after squishy Blossoms over Buddy. This is consistent with general trend that they target squishy Blossoms over other mages.

Case 3: Threw an Archer back into the mix thinking she'd go after the Archer now, but nope! Another stack of squishy Blossoms played sacrificial lamb.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Maybe they made some changes when they changed some other parameters.(how damage is calculated)
Normally it should go for the archer instead of the blossom mages (in round 1)

 

[samidodamage]

Normally it should go for the archer instead of the blossom mages (in round 1)

I've also seen this happen where I put in a Ranger with Archers/Blossoms and the MW goes for the Blossom on first strike. If I stick to just Archers/Blossoms, the Archers invariably draw that first MW strike. So I decided a Ranger confuses them (and not to my benefit, lol!) and I'm happy to toss in just Archers. I get a lot of those free from the Shrooms. Rangers are my unit of choice when I want the LR to be the primary attack units and am not trying to use them to draw first fire. It works for me since Rangers have to share training time with Blossoms and Frogs and I prefer to conserve them over Archers.
I haven't played around with mixing Blossoms and Bud Sorceress to see MW's preference. Maybe I'll remember to try that out the next time I'm in the mood to play around with troops in battle.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I've also seen this happen where I put in a Ranger with Archers/Blossoms and the MW goes for the Blossom on first strike. If I stick to just Archers/Blossoms, the Archers invariably draw that first MW strike. So I decided a Ranger confuses them (and not to my benefit, lol!) and I'm happy to toss in just Archers. I get a lot of those free from the Shrooms. Rangers are my unit of choice when I want the LR to be the primary attack units and am not trying to use them to draw first fire. It works for me since Rangers have to share training time with Blossoms and Frogs and I prefer to conserve them over Archers.
I haven't played around with mixing Blossoms and Bud Sorceress to see MW's preference. Maybe I'll remember to try that out the next time I'm in the mood to play around with troops in battle.

Oh I never mixed them that way, I just put in 2 units and looked which they preferrered.
Sorceres should be the first one they attack.

It was somthing like sorceres, archer, dryad, blossom mages, ... , .... , Ranger.

I am really to lazy to search for my file lol, ok found it.

Mistwalker:​

Sorceres​

Dryad​

Archer​

Blossom​

Banshee​

Treant​

Ranger​

Drone Rider​

Sword Dancer​

Cerberus​

Frog Prince​

Orc Warrior​

Golem​

Drone rider/sword dancer/cerberus can have a slitly different order. never bothered to figure that out.

Cannoneer​

Archer​

Ranger​

Dryad​

Blossom​

Banshee​

Sorceress​

Drone Rider​

Sword Dancer​

Cerberus​

Frog Prince​

Golem​

Orc Strategist​

 

[crackie]

Oh I never mixed them that way, I just put in 2 units and looked which they preferrered.
Sorceres should be the first one they attack.

It was somthing like sorceres, archer, dryad, blossom mages, ... , .... , Ranger.

I am really to lazy to search for my file lol, ok found it.

Mistwalker:​

Sorceres​

Dryad​

Archer​

Blossom​

Banshee​

Treant​

Ranger​

Drone Rider​

Sword Dancer​

Cerberus​

Frog Prince​

Orc Warrior​

Golem​

*wipes sweat and tears*
Welp, I can pretty much debunk the "Sorceress first" theory. 2 cities. 30+ provinces each to 6*. I even put Buddy into situations I normally wouldn't use her for and she did not get shot at once! Initial opening round anyway, which is what we're studying here. But first, a moment of silence for the giant stacks of squishy blossoms that absolutely got shredded in a blink of an eye in the name of science...

Case1: Where's Blossom? Oh, she's gone. Science experiments in the 6th round of provinces #30+ are very bloody and expensive. But look! Buddy's perfectly fine and healthy, even though she's not even supposed to be here against this match up and I just stuck her in as a test variable. This battle went pretty sideways quickly, especially having to fight with one man down the whole encounter and how outnumbered my stacks were. Ironically, Buddy ended up saving the day with all her debuffing!

Case1A: Another giant stack of squishy Blossoms completely gone in the name of science while Buddy was left alone. This battle also went sideways fighting with one man down in upper provinces while overpowering cannoneers picked off my outnumbered light range until Buddy, once again, stopped the bleeding for Team Sorceress to regroup and fight back.

Case1B: The squishy Blossoms got nearly destroyed, but there's Buddy still looking fresh, staring directly down at the Mist Walker in front of her.

Case 2: This one is at least predictable Misty would hit squishy Blossoms first, but still big ouchie!

Case 3: And then we went back to Misty doing whatever the hell she wants. Why did she spare Blossoms this round? Note: the Dryad bait was out of range.

Case 3A: Dryad in range and is the Mist Walker bait.

Case3B: She took the Dryad bait. Buddy was spared because she is out of range.

Current conclusion: I will absolutely use Dryads for bait now if it means I can get away with using mages in more situations when Mist Walker is around.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

*wipes sweat and tears*
Welp, I can pretty much debunk the "Sorceress first" theory. 2 cities. 30+ provinces each to 6*. I even put Buddy into situations I normally wouldn't use her for and she did not get shot at once! Initial opening round anyway, which is what we're studying here. But first, a moment of silence for the giant stacks of squishy blossoms that absolutely got shredded in a blink of an eye in the name of science...

Case1: Where's Blossom? Oh, she's gone. Science experiments in the 6th round of provinces #30+ are very bloody and expensive. But look! Buddy's perfectly fine and healthy, even though she's not even supposed to be here against this match up and I just stuck her in as a test variable. This battle went pretty sideways quickly, especially having to fight with one man down the whole encounter and how outnumbered my stacks were. Ironically, Buddy ended up saving the day with all her debuffing!
View attachment 12140

Case1A: Another giant stack of squishy Blossoms completely gone in the name of science while Buddy was left alone. This battle also went sideways fighting with one man down in upper provinces while overpowering cannoneers picked off my outnumbered light range until Buddy, once again, stopped the bleeding for Team Sorceress to regroup and fight back.
View attachment 12144

Case1B: The squishy Blossoms got nearly destroyed, but there's Buddy still looking fresh, staring directly down at the Mist Walker in front of her.
View attachment 12139

Case 2: This one is at least predictable Misty would hit squishy Blossoms first, but still big ouchie!
View attachment 12141

Case 3: And then we went back to Misty doing whatever the hell she wants. Why did she spare Blossoms this round? Note: the Dryad bait was out of range.
View attachment 12142

Case 3A: Dryad in range and is the Mist Walker bait.
View attachment 12143

Case3B: She took the Dryad bait. Buddy was spared because she is out of range.
View attachment 12145
Current conclusion: I will absolutely use Dryads for bait now if it means I can get away with using mages in more situations when Mist Walker is around.

Samidosage pointed out earlier that mistwalker behavior is less predictable when you add a random ranger in the mix.
In each of your examples you added a random ranger.

Try to use less different units.
Mix blossom with 3 golems not 1 golem 2 strategist 2 blossom.
Guess it's behavior is different in that case.

 

[crackie]

Samidosage pointed out earlier that mistwalker behavior is less predictable when you add a random ranger in the mix.
In each of your examples you added a random ranger.

It’s not less predictable when you use Rangers. The Rangers are there to show data points that she is actively avoiding them! The data shows a pattern in which she favors Dryads, Archers, then Rangers when it comes to light range offerings. Of the three, only Ranger has Strikeback abilities so that makes sense. In the case where she didn’t go after the Dryad, it’s because the Dryad was out of range. In 20ish examples posted, she shot at the Ranger only once. In that example, her other offerings within range were 2 Golems and an Archer. We know she low prioritizes Heavy Range so that data point is an anomaly in which she went Ranger over Archer. We are also seeing when it comes to mages, she picks Blossoms over Sorceress.

Try to use less different units.
Mix blossom with 3 golems not 1 golem 2 strategist 2 blossom.

Why bother though? Mist Walker wouldn’t go after the Heavy Range either way when they have light range or mages to pluck from. I think we all agree Mist Walkers low prioritize targeting Heavy Range so that’s not something that needs to be studied exclusively. That example was there to show that’s exactly what she would do when her choices are HR or Mage. I am also manual fighting here so the high variability in units allows me to specialize the matchups since I am in control.

As the unicorn around here who supports Buddy, I use her probably more than most. They target Blossoms over Buddy even when NOT in Mist Walker scenarios. For example, in cases of Abbot, Enchantress, and Hellhound. They all not only go after Blossom first, but over even any light range targets. The ones I see go after Buddy (sometimes Banshee) first over Blossoms are Heavy Range units, in which case I welcome it since those two mage sisters can absorb like 10 hits from HR, whereas Blossom is squishy to everyone.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

It’s not less predictable when you use Rangers. The Rangers are there to show data points that she is actively avoiding them! The data shows a pattern in which she favors Dryads, Archers, then Rangers when it comes to light range offerings. Of the three, only Ranger has Strikeback abilities so that makes sense. In the case where she didn’t go after the Dryad, it’s because the Dryad was out of range. In 20ish examples posted, she shot at the Ranger only once. In that example, her other offerings within range were 2 Golems and an Archer. We know she low prioritizes Heavy Range so that data point is an anomaly in which she went Ranger over Archer. We are also seeing when it comes to mages, she picks Blossoms over Sorceress.


Why bother though? Mist Walker wouldn’t go after the Heavy Range either way when they have light range or mages to pluck from. I think we all agree Mist Walkers low prioritize targeting Heavy Range so that’s not something that needs to be studied exclusively. That example was there to show that’s exactly what she would do when her choices are HR or Mage. I am also manual fighting here so the high variability in units allows me to specialize the matchups since I am in control.

As the unicorn around here who supports Buddy, I use her probably more than most. They target Blossoms over Buddy even when NOT in Mist Walker scenarios. For example, in cases of Abbot, Enchantress, and Hellhound. They all not only go after Blossom first, but over even any light range targets. The ones I see go after Buddy (sometimes Banshee) first over Blossoms are Heavy Range units, in which case I welcome it since those two mage sisters can absorb like 10 hits from HR, whereas Blossom is squishy to everyone.

I have played manually thousands of battles and I could always predict the mistwalkers attack, the only issue was the very first of 6 battles (each provincie uses the same map for all 6 rounds)
In the first round the mistwalker might not be able to reach the decoy position, therefore still hitting your blossom mages/

I used 4 blossom 1dryad/archer a lot and the mistwalker always goes for the archer/dryad. in the 2nd to 6th round I know the map so I know where the mistwalker can come and therefore predict his attack/movement.

He never went stray. I almost always battle with 2 different units max.

Off course I havent fought manually for the last 6 months or so maybe 12. but I have done it a lot before.
With just 2 different units on the battlefield you know exactly which enemy will attack which unit in round 1.

Round 2 is different I think it tries to attack the highest initiative it can reach. but to be fair I am already in a winning position by then so who cares

 

[Gkyr]

(each provincie uses the same map for all 6 rounds)

I didn't know that!! I will have to track that. Thanks.
And thank you for digging up your previous post. I bookmarked it.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I didn't know that!! I will have to track that. Thanks.
And thank you for digging up your previous post. I bookmarked it.

I use 3 screens so on my main screen I was battling and on a secondary screen I posted a printscreen of the map I was fighting on.

This works especially well if you have a level 30 timewarp and a level 10 icebear as I can do all 6 battles in a row and do not have to wait. this makes it a lot more viable to use this technique.