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    Your Elvenar Team

Moonstone Libraries: Change Scrolls to Supplies

DeletedUser24282

Guest
The problem with moonstone libraries is that everyone wants them and they keep them, but they make the same good for everyone. Most buildings eventually get replaced by something better. Libraries get kept and upgraded because they offer great rewards. My FS would like to propose that Inno keep the libraries but change scrolls to something more generic like supplies. Coins or boost +1 would also work, but with the increase in troops needed, supplies would be the best.
 

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Yeah I agree fully they need to be changed to one of the options you mentioned. I am not even sure they see that there is a problem with them though. Which is crazy because they have all the data they need to be able to see that they are not balanced. They should have been able to see this even without data as it is the only building that you can get multiples of that give a good that isn't your boost.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
An idea/suggestion regarding this was sent from this forum on July 30, 2020. Here's a link to that thread:
Adjust Spire Set goods output
We haven't heard anything back about this, but that is as expected. The path to the devs from this forum has strict requirements and is a one-way path. We're coming up on a year of having had any path at all. While it's less than what we'd like, we're grateful for what we have now as opposed to just talking among ourselves for years. At least now there's a way to get something in front of someone with the power to implement it.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
Yeah I agree fully they need to be changed to one of the options you mentioned. I am not even sure they see that there is a problem with them though. Which is crazy because they have all the data they need to be able to see that they are not balanced. They should have been able to see this even without data as it is the only building that you can get multiples of that give a good that isn't your boost.

What makes you think they haven't already factored in the over production of scrolls?
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
Because you can't trade scrolls away in a proper sense for over a year now.
if it was "fixed" in some other way it would not be that much of an issue.

Some old world can absorb the disaster but fairly new worlds (2 years or younger) are an absolute disaster

Do you know if anyone has any data?
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@kclarke
The second response you got from samidodamage just about covers it.

We wholeheartedly agree! The devs know, now we just wait and nag the MODs for updates occasionally.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
@CrazyWizard
eudeamonia already shifted the argument on you. Dont bother. Without real data from Inno nothing you say will have an impact. The conversation will continue until someone says the word fair and. . . Well, personally I still miss Ashrem too much to provide the entertainment.

lol when you open your eyes and see a big yellow square, there will always be some strange people who want you to prove it's "yellow".
That kind of argument?

this issue was so obvious we warned about it already when nobody had a single complete set. if someone has half a working brain cell they would indeed recognise the issue.
 

Palavyn

Well-Known Member
Something should be done about this, as well as the surplus of Cosmic Bismuth, Moonstone, and Elven Tree Gum. The Moonstone library has ruined the balance in the game.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
Something should be done about this, as well as the surplus of Cosmic Bismuth, Moonstone, and Elven Tree Gum. The Moonstone library has ruined the balance in the game.
These 3 are server specific depending on how many players of each side reaches that stage and how much they decide to produce. and not really related to the library. at least not very impactfull.

Sentient goods decay, and as such there can never exist a crippling oversupply, the bigger the oversupply of a single sentient good the bigger the decay keeping every production always within limited boundries.
I know some event buildings lately also reward some sentient goods, I do not know which goods they reward but they should be of a different kind and then it should be ok.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Sentient goods decay, and as such there can never exist a crippling oversupply, the bigger the oversupply of a single sentient good the bigger the decay keeping every production always within limited boundries.
I am not sure if we should pursue this line of thought. Otherwise the Devs might get wind of it and decide to solve the scrolls issue by making regular goods decay! lol
 

TalimSwift

Active Member
i agree. For example, were it not for the good nature of my Archmage who diligently picks up any equal value trade that sits too long in our FS, NOOOOOOOOBODY would pick up my scrolls... NOONE...
Being forced to raise BTG to max just to get fair value for your productions is not something i'm eager to rush, not before many other wonders.

and because putting 20 gum trees is more efficient than a sentient factory, you see towns with lots of those, and same for the gates for moonstones... So everyone makes those 2 and nobody makes platinum... kind of uneven if you ask me.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
Of course that's exactly what anyone not boosted in Cosmic would say. But those of us that are boosted in Cosmic know there's a significant problem.

The Moonstone Library produces those three goods, and it clearly messes up the balance.

Lets be fair, I know that there are servers with an overabundance in bismut. hell I play on one.
that said I also know of server where people say it's either soap or shrooms.

One of the issues is that the market is global, and that the slightest imbalance will be visually excaggerated.
Yes, the moonstone library outputs bismut and tee gum, giving a natural disadvantage to bismut but it's not a lot.

The main difference is that the numbers are much much much lower and that it's not a compounding good. for scrolls each "overproduced" scroll will compound and with time the inbalance will grow and grow and grow without any limitation to a point where to many players have twice as much scrolls as anything else even if it's not there bonus good.

Sentient is different, because it decays.
Decay is a balancer, is makes sure that any good cannot compound like scrolls does, so an imbalance always stays within limits.
There is no imbalance to infinity but an inbalance with limitations.

Does it mean an imbalance doesnt feel unfair?
Does it mean your sufferings are not real?

No it ain't, but it's also not the end of the world. other people keep a need for bismut, and the moonstone set can never replace a your need for it.
at least not "naturally"
A level 31 gems (or another T3 ) factory produces with a 700% bonus 7360 bismut/sentient (which you can boost with magical manufactoring) giving 5 productions we are talking about 36800 bismut/sentient here.

A moonstone gate 1380 per day, this means to match a single level 31 factoy in chapter 17 you need 27 moonstone gate to get an equal production.
When is the last time you have seen 27 moonstone gates in a single city. and thats without magical manufactoring otherwise it's more insane.

The moonstone gate on it's own is also not that impressive.

Compare this to the scrolls and you'll see this is a whole different story.

No matter what, peole will not replace sentient production with moonstone gates, and decay prevents any stock of any good to go haywire and wreck havoc on the game.

This means that non bismut players keep having a constant need of bismut, maybe not as much as you would like, but trades keep flowing.
This doesn't make it more fun for you, but it also does not completely destroy your game in any similar fashion that it does to scroll users.

it's annoying but not the same thing.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
The issue doesn't seem to be as bad, but Bismuth is certainly harder to move than shrooms and soap are on my 3 servers.
It's difficult to tell how bad the supply issue really is with sentient goods since they are manipulated by market parasites.

I wish they removed the increase of each trade at the wholesaler, this way some of us, could rebalance the server at a whim whenever it's needed.
I would not mind swapping a few million scrolls around if I had that option just to help out the people.

or if they would change the wholesaler into a buy bot that buys any good for anything at a 90-95% swap rate.
This would make sure any good is always aviable at a slightly steeper price than trading and would auto remove any imbalance.

Tho as a downside it could also make people less willing to trade using the lazy way instead of the work together way.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
Or they could just set up a buy bot that clears the trader of all 2 star trades once every 24 hours.

good idea but make it after 24 hours instead of every 24 hours.
This way there is always goods on the market 24h round instead of completely empty at a certain time.

This also avoids anyone from smartly putting up trades minutes before the sweeper comes along.
 
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