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    Your Elvenar Team

Moonstone Library Could Fix Trade Goods Imbalance

kclarke

Member
No building should give a specific tradable good unless it varies based on boosted goods. Otherwise it creates an imbalance in goods and a distinct disadvantage for the folks boosted in that good. Specific goods should be limited to goods everyone has to produce and can’t be traded.

The moonstone library set could revised and added back to the spire. Limiting it to one per person doesn’t solve the problem; it only handicaps the new players. No one is going to remove them because they’re so valuable. The problem is that this is the only building providing the same tradable goods to everyone: scrolls, tree gum, moonstone and bismuth.

Meanwhile, certain non-tradable goods are chronically short. First is supplies. Once it was possible to train troops in all three military buildings, supply shortages became a problem. Second are orcs and seeds. They’re used to cater tournaments and the spire, while orcs are used to produce troops and seeds used to produce goods. The spire is especially hard on resources. Unfortunately, there are few ways to produce orcs and seeds, unlike mana. There are some helpful event buildings, but those events were long ago. If you were in too low a chapter to need those goods, you either removed those buildings or don’t have enough royal restorations to upgrade them.

I would suggest revising the Moonstone Library to provide these goods. The library would provide supplies instead of scrolls for all chapters. The gate would provide supplies until switching to orcs in chapter 8. The endless scroll would be renamed to Endless Knowledge and provide 1 knowledge point for all chapters. The mana plant would provide coins until switching to mana in chapter 9. The gum tree would provide coins until switching to seeds in chapter 11. This avoids the problem of identical trade goods and the hassle of programming boosted goods. You control over-rewarding by adjusting the number of goods per cycle.
 

The Fairy

Scroll-Keeper, Buddy Fan Club Member
@kclarke today gum trees only produce seeds in chapter 11, it produces gum in chapter 12+, so maybe emphasize that it should continue producing seeds in chapter 12+?
And alternative to your suggestion would be that it produced e.g. boost+1 for everyone.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@kclarke
If you're going to spend the time and energy to shepherd this idea through the process that eventually gets it seen by the devs (and I vote you should, lol!), you might want to take a look at this thread:
Adjust Spire Set goods output
It has ~8 pages of discussion of the problem and possible remedies and was forwarded to the devs in July 2020. The devs only see the first post in the thread (that was edited to reflect results of the discussion the original poster felt was relevant to their idea before calling for a vote; no changes allowed after poll started).
About 6 months later, they removed the Library set from Spire, put it in crafting and limited it to one copy of each bldg per player going forward. When the set showed up in the Spire on beta earlier this month, the question was asked if we could expect to see it again on live servers and the answer was 'no':
CM post answering the question
I really think the devs consider moving it to crafting and limiting the bldgs to be the solution. I agree with you that it's not.
I'm willing to consider the idea of moving away from producing goods, but I think it will be a hard sell. Many cities have adjusted their goods production methods based on having multiple copies of these bldgs in their cities (*raises hand*). For me (with a gazillion teleports, all my factories are in inventory), it would be easy to readjust. I'm not sure that's the case for many players. However, the devs have seen the proposal to change to production based on boosted goods and have apparently chosen not to go in that direction. I don't have an alternative proposal as a solution. I just know I don't think the current situation solves the problem and am willing to consider any proposed improvements.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
They do consider it to be PART of the solution, but not all of the solution. They do not plan to change the output of this set though, I know that's been requested many times.
I really appreciate your contributions here @helya, without which we would be running blind.
I am frustrated that the devs don't engage more with us especially on problem solving. I've seen a lot of people put in extraordinary amounts of work into researching, developing and brainstorming ideas and solutions but as always it feels like a one-way conversation.
If we knew why they refuse to change the output of the moonstone set then it means our contributions will be more relevant.
When I was an Operations manager I'd go talk to the front line workers to find out what worked or didn't work - they used the SAPs every day so had the best solutions. Perhaps the devs would consider dropping by once a month so we can collectively brainstorm things in the hopes of finding win/win solutions.
 

Gkyr

Chef
This is just an anecdotal (one person) input, so, for what it's worth, I'm seeing fewer instances of scroll imbalances in the Harandar (smallest) world. Perhaps holders of the MSL have quit or removed them for more necessary buildings. When I visit really large accounts, I see one or zero MSL but not gatherings of them.
It is very likely that this is server-specific but suggests that the scroll imbalance may be correcting, in general. I fully expect other unintended imbalances to occur; this is a game of complex balances.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
This is just an anecdotal (one person) input, so, for what it's worth, I'm seeing fewer instances of scroll imbalances in the Harandar (smallest) world. Perhaps holders of the MSL have quit or removed them for more necessary buildings. When I visit really large accounts, I see one or zero MSL but not gatherings of them.
It is very likely that this is server-specific but suggests that the scroll imbalance may be correcting, in general. I fully expect other unintended imbalances to occur; this is a game of complex balances.
Interesting. I would have expected a slight increase seeing as how the MSL is now available to non-spire players.
In two of my worlds I never saw any evidence of excess scrolls. Not that there weren't any - just that the trader didn't reflect it.
I think you're right about the complexity of it all.
 

helya

Beloved Ex-Team Member
I am frustrated that the devs don't engage more with us especially on problem solving. I've seen a lot of people put in extraordinary amounts of work into researching, developing and brainstorming ideas and solutions but as always it feels like a one-way conversation.
I'm trying to get more feedback on the ideas that are created and pushed forward. There were some internal changes recently, so everything was put on hold for training purposes. I will continue to do my best to get more information for you moving forward. You are all welcome to ask me anything you're wondering about or would like an update on. Sometimes I won't be able to get an answer for you, but I am still more than happy to check.

I do think the Facebook Q&As are about the extent that you'll see opportunities to interact with the developers.
 
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