Moonstone Library goods adjustment

[Iyapo1]

I really don't get the hate from the newer players towards the older players here.

What hate? Limiting players to one set from here on is not going to fix the problem. Dealing with the boneyards is necessary.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

What hate? Limiting players to one set from here on is not going to fix the problem. Dealing with the boneyards is necessary.

Ok, instead of hate, do you all enjoy bullying other people? Many long-time posters here have left in recent months because they were chased off by the attitudes of newer posters here.

 

[Sprite1313]

Why would people quit if the library pieces were made expiring? They could still have one.

I am a relatively new player (started in August), and boosted in scrolls, and I do not want the library sets to go away. I love the CCs and mana. They were also very valuable to me early on when even finishing the spire did not provide me enough fragments to keep pace with my crafting (that has resolved over time, of course). I agree something needs to be done to FIX them, but that trashing them for all players is not the answer. In fairness, they have also allowed me to reduce my required scrolls manus, since they make up for that production.

I think the only thing that could happen is that the Moonstone Library itself has the scrolls production removed completely and not replaced with another tier 2 good

I understand where you are coming from, but don’t agree. Personally, I like the idea of a boost +0. This would benefit ALL players, by allowing them to kill at least one T2 manufactory. That frees up culture and pop for something else they want to do, but works to balance the trade market for T2 goods.

I really don't get the hate from the newer players towards the older players here

I, for one, don’t hate the older players and don’t want to kill anyone’s enjoyment of the game. I could not have gotten as far as I have in game without the experienced and advanced players in my FS giving me a leg up, and all of the advice I get on the forum.

I don’t think most of the suggestions from new players are due to a hatred of older players. I think it is because we don’t see the game through the same lens you do (how could we? we haven’t been playing as long, haven’t completed as many chapters, haven’t seen the evolution of the game over the last two-five years). I am sorry if things people write on this forum drive players from the game, but I don’t think it is fair to say that new players should not disagree with older and more-experienced players, or that suggestions are based on a hatred of older players. Truthfully, there are trolls on the forum who are in multiple stages of play, old and new.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I understand where you are coming from, but don’t agree. Personally, I like the idea of a boost +0. This would benefit ALL players, by allowing them to kill at least one T2 manufactory. That frees up culture and pop for something else they want to do, but works to balance the trade market for T2 goods.

Except that scrolls-boosted players would still be getting screwed over by that. A switch to boost+0 could still mean a year or two before the markets rebalance, and how many scrolls players would put up with it for that much longer? Plus, the little Endless Scroll building will still be pumping out scrolls, and I am sure there are a lot of players who won a lot more of them, and the other small buildings, and have a bunch more of them out, than they do the actual Library. So either get rid of the goods completely from the Library or maybe leave the Library alone and change what the Endless Scroll produces?

I, for one, don’t hate the older players and don’t want to kill anyone’s enjoyment of the game. I could not have gotten as far as I have in game without the experienced and advanced players in my FS giving me a leg up, and all of the advice I get on the forum.

I don’t think most of the suggestions from new players are due to a hatred of older players. I think it is because we don’t see the game through the same lens you do (how could we? we haven’t been playing as long, haven’t completed as many chapters, haven’t seen the evolution of the game over the last two-five years). I am sorry if things people write on this forum drive players from the game, but I don’t think it is fair to say that new players should not disagree with older and more-experienced players, or that suggestions are based on a hatred of older players. Truthfully, there are trolls on the forum who are in multiple stages of play, old and new.

Call it hate or bullying or whatever it is their jealousy is causing to get the classic "you have something I want, but since I can't have it too, then neither can you" reaction. This is a free-to-play game and, like in all other free-to-play games, there will always be stuff that newer players will never be able to have. There are buildings that people who played this game for the first 1 1/2 years before I started have, that I will never get, and I am fine with that. I only started my Beta server city in June of last year, so there is a lot I will never have in that city, including more than one Moonstone set, and I am fine with that. If they had not brought the Bears and Phoenix around again there, I would have survived just fine in my Beta city without them.

If I had a scrolls-boosted city, I would do the easy thing and build more of my tier 1 boost and trade that for silk and crystal, instead of sitting around and saying "my way or the highway." And like I said before, as long as this simple workaround exists, Inno will not see scrolls as a serious issue needing some massive overhaul. The system is not broken, only bent, and does not need major surgery, only a bandaid.

 

[Alistaire]

In retrospect, this idea would've been nice.

As it is now, they'd worry some people wouldn't like losing scrolls.

The real fix would be allow people to pick, similar to how the trader gets the option of 2 goods in chapter 17.

 

[Iyapo1]

Call it hate or bullying or whatever it is their jealousy is causing to get the classic "you have something I want, but since I can't have it too, then neither can you" reaction.

I am a spire player. I have sets, not as many as I would like but more than 1.
I have been really clear that I think is horrible that players are restricted to 1 from here on out. This is not a solution.

I have several and I think others should get them too.

 

[SoggyShorts]

A switch to boost+0 could still mean a year or two before the markets rebalance, and how many scrolls players would put up with it for that much longer? Plus, the little Endless Scroll building will still be pumping out scrolls, and I am sure there are a lot of players who won a lot more of them, and the other small buildings, and have a bunch more of them out, than they do the actual Library. So either get rid of the goods completely from the Library or maybe leave the Library alone and change what the Endless Scroll produces?

I always assumed that the idea was for the entire set to be boost+0

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I always assumed that the idea was for the entire set to be boost+0

There have been enough different suggestions about this that I have lost track of who wanted what changed, so I just play it safe and assume only the Library itself is what might be modified. Personally, I still think it is stupid that the Moonstone Gate only gives moonstone if you get it in chapter 12 or 13. Why it switches to bizmuth in chapter 14 and up, I do not understand. The Gum tree stays that way for all of the sentient chapters and the Endless Scroll stays the same. This set is just so erratic and not well thought out.

 

[Kekune]

This is a great idea! I think people will support it for the good of the game.

I wouldn't. I love every aspect of the set except for the fixed output. It's a great set otherwise. This feels a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And even if they DID expire... if people still kept putting them up, there would still be a steady influx of scrolls with nothing to balance them. It would just be a smaller version of the same problem.

Nothing I've heard proposed actually fixes the problem except for changing the output. Every other solution simply limits access, which still means a scrolls imbalance AND it upsets people who can't have the other benefits of multiple permanent sets.

 

[ET-inf3rno]

and the other half?

I, and many others have inventories where more than half of our T2 goods are scrolls and we're not even boosted in them.
In some map areas, there is simply an overabundance of scrolls production. I've tried to mitigate this for my FS by adding 8 fully leveled T2 factories, but I can only do so much.

I removed some scrolls factories and built steel instead. I rather do cross tier for silk and crystal.

 

[ET-inf3rno]

I really don't get the hate from the newer players towards the older players here. Can any of you even imagine the hit to the trade market that would happen if a bunch of players with big cities quit because Inno did something as stupid as destroying or removing the Library set? The sets are not going to disappear and they are not going to expire. But if they did, many players with anywhere from 5 to 15 sets in their cities would disappear.

I think the only thing that could happen is that the Moonstone Library itself has the scrolls production removed completely and not replaced with another tier 2 good. I have 5 sets in my Live city, and only 1 set in my Beta city, but I would be fine with the main building no longer making any goods. I have the sets out for the CCs and the mana, and the spell fragments for my smaller Beta city. The goods are just an extra bonus right now for me.

I don't think players will disappear because of it. This game is about adaptation, I would rather make catalyst with time boosters or build the catalyst giving AW and upgrade it to level 35 or focus on more important recipes like pet food and MMM. Losing 10 moonstone sets would hurt a lot, that's sure, but my city would survive.

 

[ET-inf3rno]

I always assumed that the idea was for the entire set to be boost+0

Me too. Until it turned out I am screwed.

 

[SoggyShorts]

There have been enough different suggestions about this that I have lost track of who wanted what changed, so I just play it safe and assume only the Library itself is what might be modified.

Gum and bismuth have the same issues though, just to a lesser degree. The whole thing needs to be boost +X

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Gum and bismuth have the same issues though, just to a lesser degree. The whole thing needs to be boost +X

They do? Is it because they decay that they are not as big a deal? Or are they much more server-dependent than scrolls? I know on Arendyll that Gum is not a problem, but a lot of trades offering Bismuth do sit for a while.

 

[SoggyShorts]

They do?
Is it because they decay that they are not as big a deal?

Yes, Yes, and also a much smaller % of players are in the sentient goods chapters compared to the scrolls chapter which is basically everyone.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Gum and bismuth have the same issues though, just to a lesser degree. The whole thing needs to be boost +X

Agree with both your statements. I was thinking boost+0 as a good solution, but as someone in another thread pointed out it doesn't help the scroll boosted players for a long while. Boost+1 would give them a good that is tradable right away. Since they are the ones that have been most hurt by the over abundance of scrolls, it seems right to fix the problem in a manner that helps them the most.

They do? Is it because they decay that they are not as big a deal? Or are they much more server-dependent than scrolls? I know on Arendyll that Gum is not a problem, but a lot of trades offering Bismuth do sit for a while.

Not only do gum and bismuth decay, the set does not produce as much of them. Two buildings produce scrolls - the library and endless scrolls. I think the library is the biggest problem with the set since it also produces CCs when fully linked. CCs are a much desired commodity. To fully link it requires all the other buildings, although you can minimize the number needed. However, that doesn't mean people place the minumum.

 

[Lelanya]

Agree with both your statements. I was thinking boost+0 as a good solution, but as someone in another thread pointed out it doesn't help the scroll boosted players for a long while. Boost+1 would give them a good that is tradable right away. Since they are the ones that have been most hurt by the over abundance of scrolls, it seems right to fix the problem in a manner that helps them the most.

Not only do gum and bismuth decay, the set does not produce as much of them. Two buildings produce scrolls - the library and endless scrolls. I think the library is the biggest problem with the set since it also produces CCs when fully linked. CCs are a much desired commodity. To fully link it requires all the other buildings, although you can minimize the number needed. However, that doesn't mean people place the minumum.

We have to say this on Beta now.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Agree with both your statements. I was thinking boost+0 as a good solution, but as someone in another thread pointed out it doesn't help the scroll boosted players for a long while. Boost+1 would give them a good that is tradable right away. Since they are the ones that have been most hurt by the over abundance of scrolls, it seems right to fix the problem in a manner that helps them the most.

Not only do gum and bismuth decay, the set does not produce as much of them. Two buildings produce scrolls - the library and endless scrolls. I think the library is the biggest problem with the set since it also produces CCs when fully linked. CCs are a much desired commodity. To fully link it requires all the other buildings, although you can minimize the number needed. However, that doesn't mean people place the minumum.

I still think the endless scroll is more of a problem than the library, just because it used to be easier to get several of them for every library you might get. I will use my chapter as an example. In chapter 17, a library only give 8500 scrolls and the endless scroll gives 6500. If all extra pieces are placed, someone could easily have out 2 or 3 or more endless for every library. That is a lot of extra scrolls.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I still think the endless scroll is more of a problem than the library, just because it used to be easier to get several of them for every library you might get.

But T2 goods, especially scrolls, aren't nearly as desirable as CCs.
I've never seen a city that has a library surrounded by endless scrolls, but I've seen plenty with the max number of libraries with the minimum number of connectors.
The point is moot though since changing just one of the 2 would be idiotic.

 

[NightshadeCS]

I've never seen a city that has a library surrounded by endless scrolls, but I've seen plenty with the max number of libraries with the minimum number of connectors.

I may not have thought this out well, but I had so many of the mana plants and gum trees and endless scrolls, and a slice two squares wide sitting empty near my set, that I placed a long swath of them. I could bump up the productions of the plants by having an endless scroll thrown in there, providing an extra unique connection. I am just hanging out doing mostly nothing in my city right now, though, so this may not be the norm.