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    Your Elvenar Team

Needles of the Tempest vs Martial Monastery

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Tome of Ancient Secrets - worth having? Why or why not? What does it do for me for Chapters VII and later? I want to get rid of it. But I'm curious to see what anyone thinks, especially if you say it's a bad idea.
Supplies is the main reason to keep. There is a level of situational depending on your scouting strategy. It is also like a supply instant anytime you need a sudden injection of supplies.
By late game if you want to level wonders you start craving every KP you can get your hands on. But that also requires a longer term view of the tome.

I could be at Chapter 12 or 13 by then. Would it be relevant at that point? I've seen cities of people at those chapters- will I even have the space to consider it at that point?

You will have lots of space by then. If I infer from another comment of yours it seems like you scout every chance you get so you will have even more space then most people. However, the game makes you set priorities. You have to figure out how much of that space you will use for factories, armouries, wonders, guest races ,etc. Only you can determine that and then figure out what is best to put in the space you have allocated.

I don't join the more serious ones because I hear they like to tell you what you can or cannot have in your city if you want to join them.

I would suggest keeping an eye out on these. You might be surprised but I have found a few top level fellowships with barely any rules. If you can find one doing or close to 10 chests then you will start to love that magic building of yours and your whole space situation will likely change again. Not to meention the RR spells letting you keep your favourite event building, or the much needed KP for your wonders.

But for production and neighborly help I'm also eyeing up Prosperity Towers for example.

And, a less serious note: the Martial Monastery, Crystal Lighthouse and Mountain Halls that I have, on the PC version (not on the cell phone version) of the game, produce those really cool "giant versions" of themselves along those Northeastern bluffs of your city, making it look even more spiffy. I guess that's an added bonus. :)

PT also adds a building to the cliff side, near the water ;) So now you just have to get it, right? :p

4. Dwarven Bulwark -- worth having?
This can be hard to answer as there are lots of variable. If you like tournaments then I tend to say yes. Hey it is free troops and more units per training slot. But see I personally like free troops and do lots of tournament play. If you don't care for military then it is a sure fire ignore..
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
My Lv7 Lighthouse of Good Neighbor gives +32.5% mana on buildings receiving Help

I have 4x frost carved Christmas trees with 2+ links. They are Elementals chapter. On their own, they make 179,200 mana a day. If all 4 are tapped, I get 193,760 mana (179,200 + 11,200 base production x 32.5% x 4)

I also have a full Carnival set, Constructs chapter. The Reveler's fountain gives 88,650 mana a day fully linked. If it's tapped, I get 95,053 mana (88,650 + 19,700 base production x 32.5%)

So daily I get between 267,850 mana (none tapped) to 288,813 mana. The LGN adds additional 21k mana. It also makes my EE spells give 7% culture bonus so e.g. I can use 5 spells for a +35% collection of supplies and coins, while someone without LGN needs 7 spells for the same bonus. With a L5 MA, that means I save 4 relics and 8 hours waiting time

Mana problems, what are they? I have zero non-event mana buildings and am sitting on 3.7 million mana, while making the Basic constructs as much as I can which costs about ~180k mana a day. All my streets have been upgraded to Amuni as well (haven't unlocked Constructs version). Before anyone thinks I'm getting too smug, let me say that I once had mana issues as well, often getting mana locked in Sorcerors and Elementals. But they all disappeared, beginning from 2018's Christmas event. Good advice from people here like Soggy on those trees.

Also of course, it's not all due to AW power, the buildings are great to begin with. But my LGN is only Lv7 and will just continue getting better. I think better not underestimate the power of some of these AWs
 
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Pheryll

Set Designer
My Lv7 Lighthouse of Good Neighbor gives +32.5% mana on buildings receiving Help

I have 4x frost carved Christmas trees with 2+ links. They are Elementals chapter. On their own, they make 179,200 mana a day. If all 4 are tapped, I get 193,760 mana (179,200 + 11,200 base production x 32.5% x 4)

Thanks for that calculation. I have been asking around a lot to see if the set bonus is modified by the Lighthouse's mana bonus percent, and you have confirmed that it is only the base amount, not the set bonus. I probably will not build this wonder any time soon. Like you I have 4x frost carved + carnival set, and then I have 6x shrines of Kirit. As over 3/4 of my total mana gained is from the set bonus, the Lighthouse does not look all that good right now.
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
Thanks for that calculation. I have been asking around a lot to see if the set bonus is modified by the Lighthouse's mana bonus percent, and you have confirmed that it is only the base amount, not the set bonus. I probably will not build this wonder any time soon. Like you I have 4x frost carved + carnival set, and then I have 6x shrines of Kirit. As over 3/4 of my total mana gained is from the set bonus, the Lighthouse does not look all that good right now.
sorry Pheryll, I don't know if this may be a bug, but the additional on base is what it shows on my mobile app, while additional to final amount is what is shown on the PC. it is a big difference:
fcct.jpgUntitled.jpg

as you can see, i've collected for the day, so will only be able to verify on the next collect.
 
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Pheryll

Set Designer
A similar display bug exists for gold/supplies collected from an event building with a set bonus when your culture bonus is active. The display on the building and the amount shown over the building when collecting do not match the amount gained in the inventory and the amount shown over the inventory when collecting.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I disagree with @SoggyShorts about the maze and the BTG though.
Yeah, it seems a few players do.
I loved my bee, but since I believe that buying KP is superior to the wholesaler, the wonder is 100% useless to me 9 months per year.
The maze suffers the same problem where it only reallyrhelps for about a week or 2 each chapter meaning its best feature(decay reduction) is also 100% useless 9 months per year.
[regarding ToS]Problem is of course that at some point one cannot scout 3x per week anymore.
I struggle with this as well, but im ok with the space it saved me for the 2 years that it was useful. Now that I no longer scout I'm ready to toss it (hehe pun) the next time I need space.
I never took it past level 6 though.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@SoggyShorts
*grins*....I believe in having the Maze AND the Abbey. They work pretty well together.
As for the ToS. The 3 KP's per day are nice, so I'm not going to toss it just yet, unless I find a better permanent KP-generator. I'm not that starved for space yet.
The bee....well, since I believe the Bee AND the PP spells are better than just one, I'll keep it. Especially at lvl 11. Plus that for me it beats just buying KP's with money. Using the rip-off saler for each non-boosted good once a day for coins and then for KP's after that for me is better than just KP's. Goods can be used for more different purposes. And since I'm tech-locked most of the time, the extra KP's only go into AW's. Either my own or those of FS-members or others, in order to gain runes. But the few more (1-2) KP's per day I'd get for the 1x buying goods instead are not decisive
 
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DeletedUser9601

Guest
*grins*....I believe in having the Maze AND the Abbey. They work pretty well together.
How so, I've always thought of Maze and DA as the two AWs with the least synergy. If I'm spending spells, its because I'm going to use that mana immediately. So decay is a non-issue. I suppose if you are the sort of person that runs a PoP or MM 24/7? But even then, if you're talking about the mana from 1-2 spells a day, even at that point decay doesn't seem too painful? But I realize I might be missing something.

It feels a little silly to say it, but knowing how the game progresses impacts some of this analysis. As mentioned:
  • BTG given that PPs are so prevalent (and the assumption you reach end-game).
  • MH given that sentient goods require you to cut down at least 1 boosted factory per tier.
  • Maze/DA just generally knowing that mana "importance" decreases over time (and again, end-game downtime)
  • ETC given that seed production grows so much as your AW levels + provinces cleared increases over time.
  • CL given the general lack of "big" (like 5x5) pure culture buildings that early events gave as grant prizes.
Not to say that any of these wonders are now bad, especially given some of the excellent secondary benefits (DA mage attack bonus, MH population). But maybe its better to advise that certain wonders are good "up to a certain point - like level 6"?
The flip side of course is (a) who knows what future chapters bring and (b) getting 1-2 years of good use from a wonder, even if it becomes mostly obsolete at end-game waiting for the next chapter.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
*grins*....I believe in having the Maze AND the Abbey. They work pretty well together.
I've always thought of Maze and DA as the two AWs with the least synergy.
I have to agree with @Tedious here, these wonders are best used for opposite strategies IMO- high mana or low mana production.
Using both for a medium mana build takes up the most space.

Obviously if space isn't an issue then all wonders are always good, but space is kinda the issue in Elvenar.;)
 
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DeletedUser2870

Guest
Actually, you are right the synergy is not as good as with some others. But they still work together for me, since I'm a hoarder, so I like having a reasonable amount of mana in store. The Abbey is useful for the rare cases I need a lot of mana right now, but If I had to chose, for me the Abbey would be going, but I like the extra damage my mage units do because of it, so it would really have to be a pressing issue
And though space IS an issue in Elvenar, it's not yet my main issue. So I'd like to place almost all AW's, but that's not yet an option.
And no, I actually don't use that many spells. I run MM a lot on sentient goods during a chapter, but that's about it.

Right now I'm halfway through constructs (my RL schedule doesn't allow for very intensive play, so it will take some time for me), but I've got these up
ToS, lvl 11
GA, 28, almost 29 now
Needles, 7 going on 8
MM, 11
WR 9, going on 10
DB, 6
MH, 14
PT, 7
BTG, 11
HF, 4, going to 5&6 asa I have a builder free
SSS, 7
FA, 3
ModM, 8
DA, 7
ToT, 6
PoP, 6
ETC, 8

The EE I'm not sure yet whether to place or not since I already have the PT up. The Victory Springs I'll place and up to 6 when the constructs are done and I have space to reorganize a bit again.

The ones not on that list are not going to be placed either. GA is the one I'm pushing now,I want to get that to 31. After that I'll be turning my attention to the unit generating ones and see if I can get all of those to 11
 
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DeletedUser2870

Guest
@MinMax Gamer
*LOL*
Historical mostly. When I built the ToS, there weren't that many AWs in the game. So I had a lot of players from both my FS and from the area on my map who put KP's in it, even without me asking them to do so. So basically I upgraded that by courtesy of others. It's still at 11 because I'm not putting KP's into it, though some other players still do, but since there now are so many AWs there aren't many players who do so anymore. But at lvl 11 the 3 KP's/day are welcome and so I'm not in a hurry to sell it off
 

DeletedUser2207

Guest
It feels a little silly to say it, but knowing how the game progresses impacts some of this analysis. As mentioned:
  • BTG given that PPs are so prevalent (and the assumption you reach end-game).
  • MH given that sentient goods require you to cut down at least 1 boosted factory per tier.
  • Maze/DA just generally knowing that mana "importance" decreases over time (and again, end-game downtime)
  • ETC given that seed production grows so much as your AW levels + provinces cleared increases over time.
  • CL given the general lack of "big" (like 5x5) pure culture buildings that early events gave as grant prizes.
Not to say that any of these wonders are now bad, especially given some of the excellent secondary benefits (DA mage attack bonus, MH population). But maybe its better to advise that certain wonders are good "up to a certain point - like level 6"?

I built MH for population, not the limited amount of goods it provides. I liked the idea of upgrading it to level 6, where it would be better-than-residence pop/square, and then just letting it sit and remaining relevant without needing replaced/upgraded thanks to being pegged to the working population. I've got it at level 11 now - it got upgraded when it was cheaper than continuing to upgrade Abyss (which is currently lvl 21)

ETC's MM boost (both time and amount) has always been more useful to me than seeds, though it remains to be seen how useful the MM boost to sentient goods will be post-constructs. I'm positive there are plenty of people that will continue to find the seed bonus helpful - not everyone is a tournament active player in a 10 chest fellowship. 10 chests every week is an extra 7,020 KP per year not even counting the extra kp from clearing tourney provinces.... it adds up in AW levels
 

kctanzen

Well-Known Member
So do you not fight regular provinces, or are you all about tourny?
Just curious

If the match up is just right, I can win map battles again (they switched to hard) and will probably decrease again when I take the last required squad upgrade in halflings.

I don't have an 'efficient' city layout because I choose to have a lot of factories, making things for trading -- and negotiating pretty much all of the world map encounters I do. This saves my troops to get the biggest bang for the buck by using them in tourneys to get more goodies.

I keep my scout running all the time and aim to do 3 or 4 encounters every day. My scout is at 52 hours and change now, so this approach lets me keep pace and even back off if there is an event to have a couple of spare provinces waiting for any event requirements that may turn up.
 

DeletedUser16078

Guest
Do you fight in tournaments or at all? If yes, don't scrap the Needles! You forgot the most important benefit - increased barracks troops production. This is huge! I used to be like you, somewhat dismissive of the Needles seeing them primarily as LR boost. This is really not that important. But the speed boost is huge. Now it is probably my most important AW overall.

For instance, L7 Needles gives 32.5% speed boost to all barracks productions. Think about that - with L7 Needles you can produce 1/3 more troops than without (assuming you're able to keep 24/7 production in both cases). Remember, there is no really efficient way of increasing your troop production after you maxed out your barracks (there are some AWs and event buildings that give you some troops, but they don't really move the needle until much later). Compare that with L7 MM, which gives you less than 10% health boost (and is more expensive to level up). While extra health is nice, and will allow you to win some unwinnable-before fights, overall having 30%+ more troops is way better, at least for tournaments. And you have craftable building that gives you +25% health for 5 days. That's about the same as L25 MM ;)


I think this is a big mistake. Maxed phoenixes are better than many high-level AWs. I don't get a point about space - they take no space until summoned. If you don't have space right now, just keep it in the inventory, What are you going to do with your spell fragments that is better than Phoenixes, even if you only deploy them later on?


You're correct. You'll be able to drop quite a few residences when upgrading them in the Orcs chapter.
But...two 2x5=1110, wheras one 4x3=850....how many squares do you have....I do not see that much of a gain in population.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
But...two 2x5=1110, wheras one 4x3=850....how many squares do you have....I do not see that much of a gain in population.
I assume you refer to residences upgrades in Orcs. Elven residences are smaller in Fairies (2x4), so in my case I went from 42 residences in Fairies (so 336 squares) down to 30 residences in the Orcs (360 squares). Residences pop went up from 22,460 (not everything was upgraded to L19) up to 27,000.

Humans will drop fewer residences after Fairies, but this is because they would already have less in Fairies as residences are larger (5x2). The pop density is the same between Elves and Humans.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I read these debates and it makes me glad I removed all doubt. I decided I wanted them all a long time ago so I do have them all. That was one of my goals that makes the game more interesting, especially while waiting for new chapters. At this point I have mostly level 7 with some in the teens or 20's levels. It is really great that I'm in a FS that has almost constantly moving, 4 different quantities, AW KP email swap. The KP from chests can really add up! Of course the KP from doing first 2 stars on a few pages of the tournament plus 10 chest for FS really adds up too. I can't forget to mention the roughly 7 KP I get daily spending 15 minutes on mobile visiting my world map. I also like the theme of having the part of my city where all the AW are. I think of it like being tourists in Italy or Greece. Then, of course, they all have their own benefits big & small. Works very well for me since they enhance my game without beating to death whether something else might do a little more. Frankly, I don't need more of anything in my city so why worry? I'm sure that is partially due to having and enjoying all AW :p
 
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