Neighbors

[samidodamage]

I'm with @Deborah M and @crackie on this one.
I'm pretty sure Inno would also prefer all the players who start a city in the game were as active as @Genefer would like them to be. If anyone has a fool-proof way for them to make sure that happens, I'm sure they'd listen. They also wouldn't care if all players took advantage of this aspect of the game; it would be of enormous benefit to the company, never mind the other players. So, it's doubtful they're intentionally trying to create gold mine cities just to mess with us. Unfortunately, beatings at sunset and cyber attacks against those slacker players have been eliminated (way to take the fun out of it guys!) as a way to force the issue, so here is where we are.
I do visits for the benefit of other players, not for myself. I focus on my FS fellows though I try to hit all neighbors on my notifications a couple times/week. Daily visits to all my FS members also increases the XP the FS receives that is used to upgrade FS Perks; that's a plus as well.
I decided I wanted the max culture bonus (without using EE spells) of 170% at all times. (@helya can you verify this cap? it's not really clear in the Wiki that there is a cap, but I'm sure it was discussed in a Q & A a long time ago)
Of course I did, ya'll! Must remember how very well prepared much of a hoarder I am! I also liked the challenge of 'well, the Wiki looks like the game wants me to depend on visits to reach max culture; let's see if I can find a way around that'. I'm also going to need to see a screen shot to believe a culture bonus ever ends in anything but a 0 or 5. Here are pics of both my city culture bonuses:

In both cities, subtracting the amount of the Neighborly Help Bonus from the amount of Available Culture leaves enough culture that the city would still have more than the culture 'required for current level'. This is clearly displayed in the Kworld city where I haven't cast any EE spells.
I made that decision many chapters ago. I went for all the highest pop versions of pop/culture event bldgs in every event and eliminated all residences (which were all magic ones, mind you and still in inventory just in case, lol!). Both cities are parked (one Ch16, the other Ch18), both now run with 150K+ excess population most of the time and 170% culture bonus even if I had 0 polishes from being helped. I have 2 workshops in each city (magic ones). I decided to take the one city thru Ch16 & 17 and the excess pop dropped to ~20K when I put out the sentient factories. I save up RR's and use event 'upgrade a bldg' quests to keep my pop/culture bldgs upgraded as needed if I haven't been able to replace them in an event. Being parked, running one each of Sentient 2 & 3 factories and those event bldgs are all up to chapter lvl now, thus the really high excess population. You'd think I'd at least be running efficiently with coin/supplies, but nope. Still have to spend excess just to stay below the cap at least every other day...
Currently at 499 completed provinces in one city; 553 in the other. Neither city is on the edge of a map; one city does have over 50 gold mines like a wedge in one direction and that looks to grow as I continue to complete provinces. There are a couple of player cities scattered amongst the gold mines, but not many. The other directions will continue to grow into actual player city areas. The one direction with the gold mines looks to clear up after another ~6 rings and becomes player city areas again. Do I care? Nope. Thus why I'm not invested in taking the time to figure out if this 'gold mine area not on the edge of the map' is an issue with the automated move system or not. I only found it because I went looking when I saw several other posts about what looks to be a similar issue...

 

[Genefer]

The reason they do not always end in 0 or 5s is because of the Lighthouse of Good Neighbor Ancient Wonder. Here are screenshots to prove I am not a liar lol

 

[Genefer]

Also, I never said I struggle for Coins or Supplies - not even a little - I buy kp with my coins all day long and I spend 11 million supplies purchasing goods from the wholesaler every day and on some days more. I know for many players purchasing from the wholesaler is not of importance, but with the Blooming Trader Wonder for those 11 million supplies I receive

152,520 units of T1 goods which is equivalent to 39 - 3hr productions in a Level 27 factory
102,300 units of T2 goods which is equivalent to 21 - 3hr productions in a level 27 factory
66,960 units of T3 goods which is equivalent to 13 - 3hr production in a level 27 factory

That is combined quantity of 321,780 units of goods from the wholesaler for 11,070,000 supplies. This is a far better option then adding additional factories, residences, workshops and add more culture buildings to produce these goods. With the Culture Bonus and the Power of Provision Enchantment I am able to use my 4 Magic Workshops to produce the supplies to buy from the wholesaler.

 

[samidodamage]

The reason they do not always end in 0 or 5s is because of the Lighthouse of Good Neighbor Ancient Wonder.

I apologize. I did not mean to imply you were lying; I actually thought you might be looking at something else by mistake, not from any intentional behavior on your part.
I don't recall, but I'm guessing I passed on that AW because it's not beneficial with my playstyle.
Your playstyle is every bit as legitimate as mine or anyone else's. I apply the 'is this the hill you're willing to die on?' approach to those things in the game that irritate/aggravate me because they don't fit with my style. It would be fairly fruitless for me to demand the game reduce the number of neighbor cities and add in more relic provinces to everyone's area of the map just to give me more places to play the combat portion of the game, I'm sure, lol!

 

[Deborah M]

I have to amend my opinion on this. It has been months since I finished chapter 19. It slipped my mind that I do the map neighbor visits at least early on when I'm working on new chapters. That does provide extra KP bought with coins to work on the research.

 

[Genefer]

samidodamage, thank you for the information on the culture bonus I checked the numbers, and you are correct excluding the enchantments the max is 170%. I have always used enchantments, so I had never noticed the 170% maximum. Though this does not change the issue of needing the active neighbors, but the 5 pure culture buildings in my city are unnecessary so I can remove them and free up 37 tiles.

Removing those high culture buildings will increase the number of mana culture buildings benefiting from neighborly help, which with the lighthouse good neighborhood and an enchantment increase the mana production by 52.5%. Of course, the more mana I produce with neighborly help the fewer mana buildings I will need in my city - freeing additional space.

I have a city on Elcysandir, but other than occasionally setting productions.... I have not actively played for a while, so I dumped my runes & kp into your wonders as a thank you, because there is nothing more valuable than space.

 

[Darielle]

hmmmm - so why are the neighbors on the map and only available with the completion of the province if completing provinces is for expansions - only expansions? Why are there 3 Ancient Wonders specifically designed to enhance the value of Neighborly Help to neighbors to increase the Culture Bonus? Why is there an Enchantment to increase the Culture Bonus? This game by its design has the neighborly help Culture Bonus and the only way to benefit from the culture Bonus is to actually have neighbors which is only achieved by completing provinces on the map, which require time, troops, and resources to complete.

Also, if I am not able to reach the full potential of my buildings on my land due to a lack of neighbors, I am in fact not receiving the full value of the land I purchased. Thank you for pointing that out it is a loss I had not considered

While I don't disagree with you that good neighbors help a lot, they are not critical to a good experience in this game. A good fellowship is a much more critical component (and some, like Shimmerfly, would probably disagree there, too, and I can't say she's wrong. I'm just giving my opinion). The culture bonus gives you a specific amount of extra coins/supplies, but if you actually measured that extra it isn't a game killer. The expansions, on the other hand, would definitely be a game killer. If you didn't get expansions in this game, you couldn't go very far. You can't say you don't get a great deal of value from the extra expansions because of loss of a culture bonus. While you get a little less value if you don't have a ton of neighbors polishing those buildings, the value is in the expansions and the buildings you can put on it ... not on the polishing.

I don't bother to put out culture-only buildings, no matter how high culture they have. They have minimal value to me. When I went from the boonies to a more central position on the map, I enjoyed a big boost in neighbor visits, and I will agree that it was great. But I was happy in this game for two years before I got moved. I advanced to Chapter 16 before I was moved, and I never had trouble doing so. I don't find that I'm progressing faster in the past year since the move. In fact, it's a lot slower, though of course that has nothing to do with the move. But I'm just saying that my game has not suddenly gotten so much easier because I was moved. You give the impression that you've been cheated of some kind of game-changing experience that more neighbors would provide, and you haven't been.

In a game with RNG odds, some people are going to have great neighbors, some are going to have not so great ones, some are going to be on the edge of a map, some in the center. That's the way RNG works. While it's sad when you can't get the odds to always roll your way, it is definitely not "theft" as you call it.

You can change your experience without the luck of good neighbors. Go to Elvenstats and find a fellowship that is desperate for your boosts and that is very active. You don't need RNG luck if you've got 24 good players who are constantly taking trades and polishing your buildings. You may find your experience enhanced greatly just by a change of fellowships. I wish you the best of luck in that endeavor.

 

[Darielle]

I have to amend my opinion on this. It has been months since I finished chapter 19. It slipped my mind that I do the map neighbor visits at least early on when I'm working on new chapters. That does provide extra KP bought with coins to work on the research.

I always did too, but I didn't really worry about whether they were active. I visited even dead cities to gain coins to buy kp. It's nice when they visit back, but it didn't impact my kp buying greatly. Of course back in the old days, I welcomed gold mines because they were so easy to collect from every day. Now, they've made it faster to visit so gold mines are less attractive then they once were.

 

[Darielle]

Also, I never said I struggle for Coins or Supplies - not even a little - I buy kp with my coins all day long and I spend 11 million supplies purchasing goods from the wholesaler every day and on some days more. I know for many players purchasing from the wholesaler is not of importance, but with the Blooming Trader Wonder for those 11 million supplies I receive

152,520 units of T1 goods which is equivalent to 39 - 3hr productions in a Level 27 factory
102,300 units of T2 goods which is equivalent to 21 - 3hr productions in a level 27 factory
66,960 units of T3 goods which is equivalent to 13 - 3hr production in a level 27 factory

That is combined quantity of 321,780 units of goods from the wholesaler for 11,070,000 supplies. This is a far better option then adding additional factories, residences, workshops and add more culture buildings to produce these goods. With the Culture Bonus and the Power of Provision Enchantment I am able to use my 4 Magic Workshops to produce the supplies to buy from the wholesaler.

Good to hear it. Then you were complaining as an advocate for the new players then, rather than for yourself? I can understand that; I like to look out for new players too.

 

[defiantoneks]

imma jump on here and ask, when should i expect to get the mass of coin cities in my map resolved? i've had the entire western half of my map populated mainly with coins for months on end.

 

[Genefer]

This is not an effort to advocate a change in rules or a new addition to the game. I am pointing out that there are missing pieces to the game, specifically out of 300 neighbors I am missing 233 - like a Yahtzee missing 4 dice or Monopoly missing 26 houses. I can pillage dice from another game, use pennies for houses, and I can choose to disregard the neighbor aspect of this game, but I don’t want to.

As far as trading partners, yes, I could join a Fellowship that rigidly designs the member composition relative to the size of a city and the ratio of boosted goods, but I want to play in a Fellowship with people I like regardless of their boosted goods or city size.

As for neighborly help within a Fellowship - my entire Fellowship participates in neighborly help - it is not enough. I do not struggle for coins or supplies, but neither do I produce to the maximum potential of my city, because I am missing 233 neighbors.

It does not matter if neighbors are of no consequence to some players, it does not matter if a player struggles for coins or not, and it does not matter if a fellowship’s composition meets every need. There are pieces missing in the game, and that is my complaint.

Milton Bradley provides all 32 houses in monopoly and all 5 dice in Yahtzee, because those are needed to play the game the way it was designed. If through neglect I lose those pieces I will have to find substitutes, but when I open the box all the pieces are present. Likewise, if I choose to neglect the neighbor component of the game, I will need to find substitutes to compensate, such as a fellowship or extra buildings. However, I choose to utilize the neighbor component of the game by providing buildings to be polished and visiting my neighbors, which I earned when I completed provinces, and yet the pieces are missing.

Inno needs to provide the pieces of the game they designed, and yes that will require the effort of the programmers to create a functioning tool. I do not know the parameters of their current tool, but I do know it is insufficient and I cannot imagine Inno is not aware of the tool's failure. Rather I think Inno chooses to neglect the need of rewriting their program to create a functional tool for providing all the pieces in the game.

If Inno does not want to put in the effort then other adjustments need to be made, such as a world trade market rather than a market of only neighbors and fellowship members.

For those players on the Fringe the game should apply neighborly help in the form of a polished culture building or help with the main hall in the absence of an available culture building when goldmines are collected.

imma jump on here and ask, when should i expect to get the mass of coin cities in my map resolved? i've had the entire western half of my map populated mainly with coins for months on end.

Yep!

 

[Darielle]

This is not an effort to advocate a change in rules or a new addition to the game. I am pointing out that there are missing pieces to the game, specifically out of 300 neighbors I am missing 233 - like a Yahtzee missing 4 dice or Monopoly missing 26 houses. I can pillage dice from another game, use pennies for houses, and I can choose to disregard the neighbor aspect of this game, but I don’t want to.

As far as trading partners, yes, I could join a Fellowship that rigidly designs the member composition relative to the size of a city and the ratio of boosted goods, but I want to play in a Fellowship with people I like regardless of their boosted goods or city size.

As for neighborly help within a Fellowship - my entire Fellowship participates in neighborly help - it is not enough. I do not struggle for coins or supplies, but neither do I produce to the maximum potential of my city, because I am missing 233 neighbors.

It does not matter if neighbors are of no consequence to some players, it does not matter if a player struggles for coins or not, and it does not matter if a fellowship’s composition meets every need. There are pieces missing in the game, and that is my complaint.

Milton Bradley provides all 32 houses in monopoly and all 5 dice in Yahtzee, because those are needed to play the game the way it was designed. If through neglect I lose those pieces I will have to find substitutes, but when I open the box all the pieces are present. Likewise, if I choose to neglect the neighbor component of the game, I will need to find substitutes to compensate, such as a fellowship or extra buildings. However, I choose to utilize the neighbor component of the game by providing buildings to be polished and visiting my neighbors, which I earned when I completed provinces, and yet the pieces are missing.

Inno needs to provide the pieces of the game they designed, and yes that will require the effort of the programmers to create a functioning tool. I do not know the parameters of their current tool, but I do know it is insufficient and I cannot imagine Inno is not aware of the tool's failure. Rather I think Inno chooses to neglect the need of rewriting their program to create a functional tool for providing all the pieces in the game.

If Inno does not want to put in the effort then other adjustments need to be made, such as a world trade market rather than a market of only neighbors and fellowship members.

For those players on the Fringe the game should apply neighborly help in the form of a polished culture building or help with the main hall in the absence of an available culture building when goldmines are collected.



Yep

I have about 330 scouted neighborhoods, and I think I have about the same number of active neighbors .... who gift me daily and I return gifts on ... as you do. (around 70) I've never felt that clicking on 70 neighbors every day was too little. I sometimes click the rest of my neighborhood just for the coins, and by the time I'm done with the whole 330, I'm going nuts from the tedium. I'd hate this game if I had to do it every day.

I realize that this is just me, and that you have a right to wish that all 300 of your neighbors were active, daily players, but all I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for. You might hate it, too, if you felt obligated to gift 300 people every day. It's still mindless clicking, and it's the only part of this game that is truly boring.

 

[Smooper]

Isn't there a way that Inno could code missing "neighbors" into the game? What do neighbors provide? If there is supposed to be a neighbor and rhey provide you with something, well then code the game to provide you with that missing thing. 12k gold coins a day? BOOM! At 12 pm everyday that empty province gives you 12k coins. Etc, ad nauseum.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Having lots of neighbors is overrated. Before we had the big move happen, I had 25-30 active neighbors for the first 17 chapters in my city. Between them and the fellowship, I had no problem having the goods I needed and never got held up waiting for them for even a full day, partly because I was not afraid to post 3-star trades that were not cross-tier. And I did not convert my city into a fighter until maybe chapter 10 or 11. In those earlier days, a lot of stuff taken for granted by newer players did not exist, like portal profits, coins rains, supply instants, the Phoenix, time boosters, temp military buildings, the Spire. So people thinking they need all neighbors to be active in order to succeed at this game is hilarious.

 

[shimmerfly]

A good fellowship is a much more critical component (and some, like Shimmerfly, would probably disagree there, too, and I can't say she's wrong. I'm just giving my opinion)

I don't disagree that a FS is one of the keys to the game. I;m sure it makes the game easier. I just chose to play solo for several reasons.

I don't think active neighbors are critical to the game either. I never had had a trade sit for more than a few hours. I post 3 star and same tier.
Simple!

 

[actualfantasy]

Genefer
I can hear your frustration with your situation and the game. I know it took me some time to receive neighborly help. Truthfully, I did not think about that. I found myself busy settling in my city.
I think everyone who responded is trying to be supportive and helping you see different things you may want to look at.
Maybe if you read through them again you will see something that you can use or do to help your situation. Honestly, I cannot think of anything to add. I am Starting Chapter 11 and I am now just starting to see more neighbors participating. I do notice a lag once in a while when changes with neighbors are occurring. It does not last long and I barely notice it.
Stay positive and hope all works out for you.

 

[Darielle]

I don't disagree that a FS is one of the keys to the game. I;m sure it makes the game easier. I just chose to play solo for several reasons.

I don't think active neighbors are critical to the game either. I never had had a trade sit for more than a few hours. I post 3 star and same tier.
Simple!

I'm a three star trader too. Yes, they certainly get taken faster.

 

[Deleted User - 848894468]

I am no one, but you got me at "PAID", why are you paying when it all can be played for free?

 

[Maeryn]

I am no one, but you got me at "PAID", why are you paying when it all can be played for free?

In this instance the OP is using paid differently than one comes to think when referring to a freeium game like Elvenar. In this instance paid is be referred to the in game currency, the gold, the goods, and troops needed to scout and clear provinces not actual money used.

 

[Genefer]

I am no one, but you got me at "PAID", why are you paying when it all can be played for free?

First Vennala, you are someone

As Maeryn said - I the paid good., orcs, troops .... to complete provinces. I didn't mean I paid money to complete provinces, though I do spend money playing this game.

Also, this game is not free, though it is not required to spend money to play, but if there were not players that do spend money there would not be a game for anyone to play.