'New Fellowship Adventures feedback

[neeronie]

Could someone clear something up for me here is the scenario, Some people have went off on to the yellow path and some to the green if we finish the blue and pull the flag will they get any rewards if they are not in the blue path? I thought you had to complete the whole colored half to receive that reward. we are playing just for the prizes which I know are not great but seems like we are confused on what we should do. Thank you in advance

As long as they have contributed during that stage to any path, they will share the prizes.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Saying I could have foreseen that 6 months or a year in advance before this upgrade was introduced is pure nonsense.

I did not say that. I said it's nonsensical to say that any building is overproducing because overproducing is relative.

I also anticipated you might use this argument. My answer is that production values per chapter do not have to follow a linear fashion. Supply requirements per chapter can also vary and there is nothing wrong with that

I had 6 marble factories up to chapter 13, then I increased all the way to 9. But after upgrading to chapter max in chapter 15, they produce so much that I put 4 of them in storage and used the space for something else instead. I don't regard them as having "overproduction".

You make it sound like somebody owes you something for buying magic workshops but no, they don't. You bought magic workshops per your need at a certain point in your game, and your money already paid off then. Even now, you are getting your money worth because magic workshops make much more supplies than regular ones, which is what and all they promised to do. They don't have to give double FA badges or anything else to keep their end of the bargain

 

[Dominionofgod]

Honestly, i both like and dislike the FA. But maybe for slightly different reasons then most. I have no big complaints about the prizes. I like the extra artifact. A nice thing for those that might have come up short in a previous event. And i have no issue helping my fs members get it if they need it.
A main bonus for me is it allows me to judge the activity level of the fs members. We can see whose inactive but its good to see more then jsut that. Since i run my FA's i can see who i making what, who is reporting what they make. See who is helping the fa and who is paying attention to plans and all that other stuff. Its a good way to get a idea of how things are going with the members.

And i love the new badge collection system! It saves me so much time and effort, and mental pain sadly, then the old system!

That being said i think the FA system needs a slight change. I fully understand the idea of the communication and cooperation needed in FA's for true success. And while i like that in theory, the simply reality is that half the ppl simply dont care. Or perhaps have to much going on in real life. And most fs arnt filled with 25 perfectly active members. So you get ppl that dont cooperate as much, who dont follow plans, who dont report things. It makes everything a mess. And its not jsut this game. Iv played other games in the past that are pasted on groups of ppl cooperating. Its always the same story for the majority.

So while the theory is fine, i think we need to look and focus on the reality of it. And i think the simplest thing that might be worth trying would be to make a FS badge pool. Let all the badges made by fs members go to that fs's badge pool. Where the mages/arch can use them as they see fit. It would help keep things more orginized. As well as simpler for those that have less time, or lack the ability to follow instructions well. -_-

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I did not say that. I said it's nonsensical to say that any building is overproducing because overproducing is relative.

I also anticipated you might use this argument. My answer is that production values per chapter do not have to follow a linear fashion. Supply requirements per chapter can also vary and there is nothing wrong with that

I had 6 marble factories up to chapter 13, then I increased all the way to 9. But after upgrading to chapter max in chapter 15, they produce so much that I put 4 of them in storage and used the space for something else instead. I don't regard them as having "overproduction".

You make it sound like somebody owes you something for buying magic workshops but no, they don't. You bought magic workshops per your need at a certain point in your game, and your money already paid off then. Even now, you are getting your money worth because magic workshops make much more supplies than regular ones, which is what and all they promised to do. They don't have to give double FA badges or anything else to keep their end of the bargain

I feel this is a false argument.
A marble factory can be compared to a regular workshop, but not to a magical one. The factory does not represent something bought -and upgraded- with diamonds, bought with real money.
And yes, I bought them because they produce more supplies. And yes, production in the chapters is not completely linear, but it does have -until this chapter- an increasement within a certain range. Tripling the output is ridiculously far outside that range. And no, I don't feel anyone 'owes' me anything. I just feel that it would not be unreasonable to have their output count double in eventrequirements. Whether or not that happens is something else.

That being said, we will obviously not agree on this point, which is fine. I still will maintain my point of view and expect you will keep to yours.

 

[mucksterme]

That being said i think the FA system needs a slight change. I fully understand the idea of the communication and cooperation needed in FA's for true success. And while i like that in theory, the simply reality is that half the ppl simply dont care. Or perhaps have to much going on in real life. And most fs arnt filled with 25 perfectly active members. So you get ppl that dont cooperate as much, who dont follow plans, who dont report things. It makes everything a mess. And its not jsut this game. Iv played other games in the past that are pasted on groups of ppl cooperating. Its always the same story for the majority

I don't think you can blame the game for your FS's shortcomings.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

I feel this is a false argument

I think you are making false arguments.

Let's take a look at what you're saying, whether it holds water

I just feel that it would not be unreasonable to have their output count double in eventrequirements

The FA badges are based on time of productions, not amount of supplies. The way to get more badges in the same time, is to build more workshops. If we base it on production, should they also award more badges for regular workshops on production bonuses (e.g. PoP, culture bonus)? If I use PoP on my Magic Workshops, should I get 4x badges instead of 2x as you propose?

A marble factory can be compared to a regular workshop, but not to a magical one.

Why not, if we're looking specifically at production values? An upgraded factory now produces more goods than I need, so should I expect more Flacons/Bracelet/Necklace/Statue badges?

The factory does not represent something bought -and upgraded- with diamonds, bought with real money.

This, sir, is the key of your argument. You're basically saying "I bought these with money, so I should get more out of it". There are top-ranked people in my FS with 100% magic buildings who drop hundreds of thousands of points during FA due to making space for extra workshops, They don't complain about their magic WS not making more badges. Thank God we now have the teleport spell so it's just a matter of accruing those spells - in the past they had to rebuild for weeks after an FA.

If what I'm saying is not true, then get with it and build more workshops for more badges like everyone else!

P.S. there is a way to expend your extra supplies - the Wholesaler. You just don't want to use it because you feel it's a waste of supplies. This is irrational from an economic perspective. You already spent the time, made the supplies. Even if you had no BTG to improve the Wholesaler offers, you would still get something instead of nothing back for your sunk costs.

 

[neeronie]

My. my, my so much fuss, so many slightly, ahem critical words. Okay, one thinks badges for magic buildings should be double. that is expressing an opinion, no harm in that. However, the game is set up to count the product of 3 hrs of a tier1 or higher building. That is just how it is, most players build extra level 1 building for the event so that they don't tie up there upgraded buildings whether the building is level one or level 21 just does not matter. One thinks some don't contribute, true enough, some don't and they do not get a share of the prize, and if they are not active, it is possible for them to be expelled. Be calm, ah peace. enjoy the game, you are among friends.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Back when all quests could be completed with level 1 buildings, magic workshops had little impact. People built the shanty towns for quests as needed. When the new quest requirements came along, the outcry was that players with magic workshops generally had fewer of them, and thus were seemingly penalized for having sold off regular workshops. (Whenever I added a magic workshop, I generally took out 2 normal workshops to save space & population, which is the magic workshop's primary reason to exist.) Whereas a player with normal workshops might have 6-8 workshops, a player with only magic might have 3-4 instead. The magic workshops counting as double was meant to counteract this and has thus far *only* been applied to quests that require upgraded workshops. Thus why they don't count double in FA, or any other event quests that allow for level 1 buildings.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

The magic workshops counting as double was meant to counteract this and has thus far *only* been applied to quests that require upgraded workshops. Thus why they don't count double in FA, or any other event quests that allow for level 1 buildings.

Specifically, the Fall 2019 event that needed minimum chapter -1 workshops.

You see why I am not for Magic WS producing double badges, even as a 100% magic WS user myself. It would benefit me, but it is alienating to those who do not have them

In the case of events needing chapter -1 WS, one can possibly justify magic WS double-counting with the reasoning @Risen Malchiah has just given, but even then it's potentially contentious, because the disadvantage caused by having fewer WS comes only as a result of player decisions - decisions for our own benefit - it was not a condition imposed by how the game works. The hassle for me was in the area of having to spend hours upgrading the WS to the appropriate chapter, rather than with space or being played out by buying Magic Ws. Making space for events is something I accept as a necessary price to pay for making quicker progress

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I think you are making false arguments.

Let's take a look at what you're saying, whether it holds water


The FA badges are based on time of productions, not amount of supplies. The way to get more badges in the same time, is to build more workshops. If we base it on production, should they also award more badges for regular workshops on production bonuses (e.g. PoP, culture bonus)? If I use PoP on my Magic Workshops, should I get 4x badges instead of 2x as you propose?

Again, false argument. Timebased, so the spells do not matter one whit one way or another so it has no bearing whatsoever on the argument. Only way to make that part of the argument is to talk about the time-instants and in THAT I can agree that using them a lot would disproportionally benefit end-game players and that would actually be the best argument. However, it is true for the other event-type as well and thus becomes moot.

Why not, if we're looking specifically at production values? An upgraded factory now produces more goods than I need, so should I expect more Flacons/Bracelet/Necklace/Statue badges?

Balderdash and I never made such a claim. If one cannot see the difference between a building BOUGHT and one built there is a problem there with the way you look at things.

This, sir, is the key of your argument. You're basically saying "I bought these with money, so I should get more out of it". There are top-ranked people in my FS with 100% magic buildings who drop hundreds of thousands of points during FA due to making space for extra workshops, They don't complain about their magic WS not making more badges. Thank God we now have the teleport spell so it's just a matter of accruing those spells - in the past they had to rebuild for weeks after an FA.
If what I'm saying is not true, then get with it and build more workshops for more badges like everyone else!

That actually is my main argument, as I stated right at the start.
My main problem is the freakingly ridiculous increase of output that one just has no use for. Yes, I can move one into the inventory and as I stated in my view that is wasted money. Regular buildings can be sold off and then be rebuilt to the desired level, magical ones do not have that ability. Once upgraded they cannot be changed back. Yes, one could sell a magical workshop instead of putting it into the inventory, but that is like throwing money down the drain.

The point about 'people in your FS dropping thousends of points during an FA event' So what? I don't give a flying -beep- about ranking points. Not mine, not anyone elses. It is beyond me why that would even be part of the argument. Again, just a completely irrelevant statement. They may want to play that way, not everyone does. But I've done the same to make place for shantytowns. Has no bearing on the subject at all.

P.S. there is a way to expend your extra supplies - the Wholesaler. You just don't want to use it because you feel it's a waste of supplies. This is irrational from an economic perspective. You already spent the time, made the supplies. Even if you had no BTG to improve the Wholesaler offers, you would still get something instead of nothing back for your sunk costs.

Nothing to do with 'feeling'. I already AM using the wholesaler as there is no other way to use supplies. But the diminishing returns make it preposterous to even try and argue it is a way that has any bearing to reasonable returns.

This was the last time I'm answering as we already established we will not agree on this. I have my opinion, you have yours. They do not have to coincide and we do not need to reach consensus.

 

[neeronie]

Back when all quests could be completed with level 1 buildings, magic workshops had little impact. People built the shanty towns for quests as needed. When the new quest requirements came along, the outcry was that players with magic workshops generally had fewer of them, and thus were seemingly penalized for having sold off regular workshops. (Whenever I added a magic workshop, I generally took out 2 normal workshops to save space & population, which is the magic workshop's primary reason to exist.) Whereas a player with normal workshops might have 6-8 workshops, a player with only magic might have 3-4 instead. The magic workshops counting as double was meant to counteract this and has thus far *only* been applied to quests that require upgraded workshops. Thus why they don't count double in FA, or any other event quests that allow for level 1 buildings.

I see your point and it is a point well taken. Not having magic production buildings, that never came to mind. Thank you for clearing that up. The change has been difficult to adjust to and my biggest city just does the quests until there is one that calls for production, than I just stop. Like most, my largest city is very limited where space is involved. Having a Magic building seems to have given with one hand and taken away with the other. So much to learn.

 

[Pheryll]

That actually is my main argument, as I stated right at the start.
My main problem is the freakingly ridiculous increase of output that one just has no use for. Yes, I can move one into the inventory and as I stated in my view that is wasted money. Regular buildings can be sold off and then be rebuilt to the desired level, magical ones do not have that ability. Once upgraded they cannot be changed back. Yes, one could sell a magical workshop instead of putting it into the inventory, but that is like throwing money down the drain.

For most chapters your workshop output has no bearing on your FA badge potential. Your FA badges are by and large achieved by your level 1 workshops- not your leveled workshops. Magic workshops have a better production to pop/culture consumption ratio than regular workshops, which in the end leads to more level 1 workshops, not fewer. No need to give magic workshops a bonus, when a setup of magic workshops allows for more FA badges than a similar production setup using only regular workshops.

EDIT: To give an illustration of this consider the below setups.
Setup 1: 5 level 35 workshops + 4 level 15 magic residences + 1 chapter 15 spheric stub
Setup 2: 3 level 15 magic workshops + 3 level 15 magic residences + 1 chapter 15 spheric stub

The first setup has lower supply output and runs a slight negative in both population and culture.
The second setup has a higher supply output and runs a slight positive in both population and culture.

Even if the two setups had the same population and culture requirements for production output, the second setup would net 50 free squares (not counting road space) because it has two fewer workshops. One can certainly fit at least 8 level 1 workshops in that space and thus be better prepared for FA than one using normal workshops.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

The "I paid for something therefore I'm entitled to more" point is the weakest argument for gaining a bonus in the FA.

I paid for magic WS so that I could reduce the workshop footprint in my city, and they are serving that function perfectly. I don't need concessions thrown in with that, especially when they do not relate to the function of workshops at all.

 

[neeronie]

I never considered all the benefits of magic buildings. This is very interesting. We play this game for free and it entertains us. I don't mind at all buying a few diamond now and then. I would pay to go to the movies, or a baseball game and they only last a few hours. I play everyday.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I never considered all the benefits of magic buildings. This is very interesting. We play this game for free and it entertains us. I don't mind at all buying a few diamond now and then. I would pay to go to the movies, or a baseball game and they only last a few hours. I play everyday.

Good points. Also, after a couple expansions, they get to be very expensive, whereas magic buildings top out at 1400 diamonds. And if a magic building lets you replace 2 normal buildings, it's effectively like getting another expansion. (And if you're in a fellowship that makes 10 chests in the tournament occasionally, it's even better since upgrades will be free!)

 

[neeronie]

Dear Humans and Elves,

Please let us know what you think about our 'Fellowship Adventures with a Twist' we announced.

You can read the full post here!

The quest list looks good and I believe it will be doable by my entire Fellowship members, even the newbies.

 

[Jackluyt]

Here is all the core information for the 16 Item Fellowship Adventures starting on Monday, including a spreadsheet.
You are welcome to share it with friends and fellowship

https://tinyurl.com/vjmj96k

 

[neeronie]

It would be so lovely of Inno to develop a method for shutting off a path or paths that are not in play. Lights on, Lights off, Lights on, Lights off.

Could someone clear something up for me here is the scenario, Some people have went off on to the yellow path and some to the green if we finish the blue and pull the flag will they get any rewards if they are not in the blue path? I thought you had to complete the whole colored half to receive that reward. we are playing just for the prizes which I know are not great but seems like we are confused on what we should do. Thank you in advance

no the Fellowship only has to finish one path for everyone who participated in that Stage to get the same reward.

 

[neeronie]

I will take this opportunity to reprise a suggestion I made before. It would be lovely of Inno and certainly would take some of the unnecessary stress out of a Fellowship Adventure if the path manager could turn off paths that where not in play. Lights on, Lights off, Lights On, Lights Off. We are doing BLUE, not green, we are doing YELLOW now, not blue.

 

[Ashrem]

I will take this opportunity to reprise a suggestion I made before. It would be lovely of Inno and certainly would take some of the unnecessary stress out of a Fellowship Adventure if the path manager could turn off paths that where not in play. Lights on, Lights off, Lights On, Lights Off. We are doing BLUE, not green, we are doing YELLOW now, not blue.

It would, but they make money off people who make mistakes and waste badges and have to buy more with diamonds, so I wouldn't hold my breath for getting it.